music theory for hip hop

2nice

Active member
hey, i have a question... see im not very well versed in music theory, other than knowing what the fundamental scales and chords are and how keys work in major/minor. my question is, what areas of music theory should i get comfortable with in order to have a theoretical foundation that is very applicable to hip hop.

for instance, chord progression theory is very important for music such as hip hop that often uses looped chord progressions. on the other hand, studying rhythm extensively would be useful but not as necessary, because rhythm is much more intuitive.

any suggestions? yall know any theoretical techniques that are used a lot in hip hop?
 
I'd start with major and minor pentatonic scales and the blues scale. Hip hop is based on funk, and those scales are the funkiest.

For chords, I'd start with 7th and 9th chords for the same reason. Funky.

Then I'd learn major, minor, mixolydian and dorian scales.


As for progressions, most hip hop consist of 1 chord vamps. The more musical songs may consist of I, IV or I, V progressions, or maybe I, IV, V. Again, hip hop is based on funk music. Funk music is simple but grooves hard. It's more about the rhythm, not complexity. Take a listen to a James Brown track. Odds are they won't come off of that one chord until the bridge.
 
Bezo said:

It's more about the rhythm, not complexity. Take a listen to a James Brown track. Odds are they won't come off of that one chord until the bridge.

Yeah, that is so true.

The theory of hip hop production can vary drastically from one producer to the other.

1. There are many sample based producers.

2. There are many producers that could'nt even tell you the diffrence between a minor and major scale ( but can still make hot beats ).

3. In hip hop, it is possible to use elements from just about any music genre.

4. Cause of the distinction of stlyes of the music ( including regional influences ). For an example listen to RZA, DJ Quick and Lil' Jon. They sound nothing alike.
 
even before i started playing guitar i found that a lot of my basslines and melodies in my hiphop tracks were based on the minor pentatonic scale. it's amazing that certain notes always sound right together no matter how you flip them.
 
i think for hip-hop you definatly dont need to learn scales, more importantly you need to learn about-

Time signatures 4/4, 3/3, 2/2, 6/8 etc..
Percussion and percussion instruments
vocal rythmic patterns(learning how to time sig a vocal)
learn how to play drums and keyboards also
 
Mackie said:
i think for hip-hop you definatly dont need to learn scales, more importantly you need to learn about-

Time signatures 4/4, 3/3, 2/2, 6/8 etc..
Percussion and percussion instruments
vocal rythmic patterns(learning how to time sig a vocal)
learn how to play drums and keyboards also

if you're laying samples over a beat, i agree. that's because the artists that you are sampling already did all of the scale studies for you. they play a minor pentatonic riff, you sample it, add hot beats, and you're the man.

if you're creating your own original tracks, you'd better learn. not necessarily take a class or read a book, but at least learn which scales and note patterns fit together. i know cats that have created an original track, wanted it to hit harder, and just transposed the bassline down 4-5 notes while leaving the other instruments alone (yeah, it sounds stupid) and it doesn't work.

a solid musical background can't hurt your music, especially if you already have creativity. why do you think guys like rza and dre are studying music theory now?
 
im glad you brought up RZA and Dre.

u see with hip-Hop, u absolutly cannot limit your listening pleasure to purely hip-hop and rap.

u need to learn about all types , genres and cultures of music.

even when u have sold millions of records and made the cash, even big stars are humbling themselves by admiting that they dont know everything.

thats cool.
 
fizzix810 said:


if you're laying samples over a beat, i agree. that's because the artists that you are sampling already did all of the scale studies for you. they play a minor pentatonic riff, you sample it, add hot beats, and you're the man.

if you're creating your own original tracks, you'd better learn. not necessarily take a class or read a book, but at least learn which scales and note patterns fit together. i know cats that have created an original track, wanted it to hit harder, and just transposed the bassline down 4-5 notes while leaving the other instruments alone (yeah, it sounds stupid) and it doesn't work.

a solid musical background can't hurt your music, especially if you already have creativity. why do you think guys like rza and dre are studying music theory now?

I totally agree. line for line
 
me to i feel this completely.
fizzix810 said:


i know cats that have created an original track, wanted it to hit harder, and just transposed the bassline down 4-5 notes while leaving the other instruments alone (yeah, it sounds stupid) and it doesn't work.


this story is true!!!!! cats do this with any element of a track!!!!!!!!!
 
one thing that really upsets me is...improperly tuned tracks..or tracks that dont sound tuned at all.

please producers...pay attention to the tuning of everything.

damn a hate a bassline that dont fit with the drums or a kick or snare and a sample dont sit right
 
your best bet is to just feel it.
try not to worry about the theory side to much as it will take upp too much of your time
just go with what sounds tight and you will start to build a whole new way of working.

Djinn Music
 
but also, theres a lot more than just theory to be learnt about hiphop production.

u need to learn about culture also!

think about it.
 
hows it going yall?

i took theory last semester at my community college.

the **** helped me a lot.

after taking it, you can harmonize instruments without having to guess where the notes go.

but, like someone mentioned in the beginning of the thread a lot of hip hop is based on simple funk or jazz chord progressions.

i bought this one book that shows pictures chords for the keyboard.

and if you do a search on google for "music calculator" you can find a website that has a calculator that tells you which notes are in mixolydian and dorian scales and all that stuff.

hope that helps.

peace
 
yea, that's true.

if you listened to garth brooks all your life and just had a change of heart, then you might want to pick up your hip hop 101 handbook at barnes & nobles. sike.

i'm just talkin ****.

sorry
 
Over a few months i have read up on music theory and have found alot of it very useful. This is my take on hip hop and music theory. There are alot people who have great music knowledge and understand everything about music theory from a to z but cant make a good hip hop beat. Wanna know why! Everything about hip hop is a trend or catchy. Im not saying other types of music aint but when i make a beat im not worry about how deep or how many different times i can change and re make a melody. Im looking for something catchy and different. I have a good base on music theory but other than the fundimental rules i pretty much throw it all out and just work out melodies and when i get stuck i may come back to my music theory knowledge but as i step to th keyz im just coming with what ever is in me. Hip hop music compare to something that really progresses over a spand of time is like freestyle dancing compare to ballay. ballay is known as great artform but it wont catch the eye like those who just freestyle dance and the same for hip hop compare to other forms of music that will progress more than a simple change up.
 
is all bot style of course. hip hop is full of possibilities, so i wouldn't neglect anything -miles davis, mozart, picasso, pollack, dylan, james brown ect., style, as any style. also, in whatever you look for in music, whther its the purcussive elements, preference in general, or shape. a melody(melos) can come from anywhere ;any end of it. cause anyone likes nice clothes, right? so then we apprach it like that, the texture we bumpin, tones, or colors whatever. theres more print like stuff like 'Lean Back', or more elaborate composition like in 'Genius Of Love (done by the drummer from the Talking Heads! lol damn) and they both sounds pretty hot to me. so then its style, any kind. havin ur own sense of time, timbre, whatever

wit the history though, of course hip hop developed with funk and dub, theres plenty on that out. theres always more than that about it though, but for conveince. the values of those two though in important when we consider hip hop though, the spacing about it and whatever.

but to suggest somethin, purcussive studies, scales, counterpoint,- but anythin really

sry i couldn't say more
1
 
oh yeah i almost for got!! if you ever get a chance check out some music history or whatever books and pick up a Hal Leonard Pocket Music Theory book, stright up lol(of course look through it before you decide to buy it lol) but stright up that helps so much, i always keep it wit me, its like $4.95 lol keepin it gully
 
i dont understand why alot of people equate knowing theory with an urge to make things complex and too involved musically.

music is a language, plain and simple. knowing any given language inside and out doesn't mean you can't communicate on extremely simple, direct and fundamental level.

theory isn't really something that you just reach out for and use when you get stuck on something. Its knowing why everything sounds the way it does and how to acheive certain feelings with note combinations and chords. its like saying you only reach back and think about english class when you are having difficulty saying something. When its really engrained, it becomes second nature, you know what its like to speak english fluently, you don't have to think about how to form sentences and look up words all the time in a dictionary.

point is...the more theory you know the better i say. even if you rarely use complicated theory in any kind of music, the better you know it the easier it is to let ideas flow without thinking about it. Its not rules and regulations at all, its reason and understanding.
 
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