I want to get more punch in my instruments

E

etherloop

Chief
I use logic and cant seem to find a way to add a punch to my songs. Could anyone help? Will review in return.

Example: soundcloud .com/ jake-kriegman/ asik
 
OK, the first thing to add punch is to use some compression on the kick, snare and bass.

What are using as your DAW?

this will determine how you go about doing this.
 
bandcoach said:
OK, the first thing to add punch is to use some compression on the kick, snare and bass.

What are using as your DAW?

this will determine how you go about doing this.
Click to expand...

he said logic.
as for 'punch' goes, what I usually do is bit crush the snare to 12bit or and 26k samplerate to make it crispy then use Waves Desser to knock off annoying..'esses'. then +2b :)

other than that, you can add a 60hz boost to the snare also to give it punch, i know plenty of people who do that. It all depends on the track.
 
OK, end of a long day yesterday, so I missed the logic part (why can't we have badges of the daws like other fourms? :))

Tom Lubin - engineer producer of the 70's and 80's once said about my own mixes "one mans distortion is another mans great sound" - it was sarcasm with an intended message you don't need to be perfect in waht you do to get what you consider a great sound but not everyone will think that it is a great sound.

Bit crushing as a solution to punch doesn't cut it for me, because it is destructive rather than constructive.

You can achieve crispy far more easily by isolating the right frequencies and applying an appropriate amount of boost or cut with a narrow or wide Q.

Obviously, adding boost at low freqs gives a sense of presence in the mix, but it may also introduce unwanted artefacts such as LF masking.

I'm not knocking any of this as such, way back in the days BC, we had to do pretty much this with an analogue desk as there wasn't much outboard gear in the studio at the time (it got better later).

Taking the individual channels, applying a 2:1 - 4:1 compression ratio, setting the threshold low enough to have it working without pumping and then adding some gain makeup (ca.3-6db) will be far more affective at adding punch in the freqs of the instrument.
 
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bandcoach said:
OK, end of a long day yesterday, so I missed the logic part (why can't we have badges of the daws like other fourms? :))

Tom Lubin - engineer producer of the 70's and 80's once said about my own mixes "one mans distortion is another mans great sound" - it was sarcasm with an intended message you don't need to be perfect in waht you do to get what you consider a great sound but not everyone will think that it is a great sound.

Bit crushing as a solution to punch doesn't cut it for me, because it is destructive rather than constructive.

You can achieve crispy far more easily by isolating the right frequencies and applying an appropriate amount of boost or cut with a narrow or wide Q.

Obviously, adding boost at low freqs gives a sense of presence in the mix, but it may also introduce unwanted artefacts such as LF masking.

I'm not knocking any of this as such, way back in the days BC, we had to do pretty much this with an analogue desk as there wasn't much outboard gear in the studio at the time (it got better later).

Taking the individual channels, applying a 2:1 - 4:1 compression ratio, setting the threshold low enough to have it working without pumping and then adding some gain makeup (ca.3-6db) will be far more affective at adding punch in the freqs of the instrument.
Click to expand...

Ive only started mixing months ago haha. Obviously you have a great of experience. Does those extra frequencies even matter that much on a low end boost when dealing with a hip hop track lets say. My mixes usually tend to be around 10-15 tracks and I usually tune my drums with the bass so the harmonics dont wobble. I don't have any treatment or anything so i'm sure i would be able to hear what your talking about in an appropriate environment.

And yes DAW badges should be accessible. Btw I just got PT9 and im running 96k on core audio with .5ms latency? Jesus, thats almost 300% better performance than an mbox2 mini.

---------- Post added at 11:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:32 AM ----------

Also one I see bit crushing as constructive in hip hop because thats usually what people go for: gritty, snappy drums. I think we are talking about hip hop? I dont know im rambling I havnt slept in 32 hours.
 
I think it is genre-neutral: sound is sound.

Boosting the lows can cause "over-shadowing of higher frequencies that are close to the original" - this is masking. It is one of the tricks that the mp3 codec uses in compression - extract what can't be heard anyway.

Put another way, a 60Hz boost on the snare when it actually doesn't have that freq in its profile is a waste - better to find its lowest freq by
panning the centre freq of a parametric EQ with gain set to minimum and Q set to narrowest, then boost the gain as needed.

Do this for each instrument in turn, finding the sweet spots for each sound (rather than each note), then add compression with makeup gain to tame the beasties - instant punch.

Your pro-tools setup sounds sweet, I'm not much into it though as there are equally good solutions out there for far less investment in hardware and sw.

Tuning helps to eliminate issues, but then you still need to create the oomph or punchiness by using compression and eq.
 
personally I'd say punch means more dynamic impact which you wont get from compressors, although they can help if needed. I find that knowing which frequencies to boost with EQ gives more punch to drums and then you limit them after that to keep them under comtrol. If you compress everything you squeeze the life out of it.

EQ if done correctly makes each drum hit really powerful and full. Also consider using better instrument sounds from the get go and also layering them.

Then try compression after that.
 
@Astroidmist: did you even read what I wrote, or did you just see my nickname, see the word compressor and decide you had to negate it??

Everything you said about frequency is there. The use of compressors is to tame the extremes in dynamics yet at the same time use makeup gain to make the sound more in-yo-face.


Limiting before compression ?!?!?!?- the definition of a limiter is a compressor that stops your signal going over a set level.

Better to use compression to control the beast first.
 
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I hate you logic users. You guys are such cry babys, like are you kidding me. I have a million dollar software and I can't get it to sound like how I want it exactly. You guys piss me off. JK, I just need more post counts but try a sidechainer or a ducker like everybody else says, a compressor haha
 
Yeah, parallel processing and sidechaining, is a really useful tool for emphasising different freqs.

Me, I don't use Logic, I use Cubase and Reason and Record and Audacity and Soundbooth as well as an outboard 16 track analogue tape studio in the back room, complete with individual compressors, gates, fx for each track.
 
bandcoach said:
@Astroidmist: did you even read what I wrote, or did you just see my nickname, see the word compressor and decide you had to negate it??

Everything you said about frequency is there. The use of compressors is to tame the extremes in dynamics yet at the same time use makeup gain to make the sound more in-yo-face.


Limiting before compression ?!?!?!?- the definition of a limiter is a compressor that stops your signal going over a set level.

Better to use compression to control the beast first.
Click to expand...

I don't think I read what you wrote to be honest. But about Limiting before compression... I wasn't clear what I meant. When I said "compress after that" at the end of my post, I really meant limit/compress. I was using the term compression loosely since a limiter is a type of compressor, and yes I did know that before you mentioned it.

Nevertheless there's actually some guys over at vintagesynth.com who very specifically mentioned the benefits of limiting before compression. I was surprised about this, because I also would think that compression would come before limiting, but they say that with the limiter first, transients get tamed to prevent pumping in the subsequent compressor. It's counterintuitive and I've never really heard what it sounds like or heard of it being done until now... but maybe it works. I'm going to try it out later.

Anyways about making the sound more in your face, as you say, I understand how compressors work and what their function is and I didn't need you to explain that to me. I just possibly have a different perspective than you (maybe not) that for "punch" you need more dynamics focused strategically according to frequencies that sound best with that instrument... instead of compression which smooths down dynamics. For smooth pads, yes compression will make it better... i suppose, but who ever talks about a smooth pad being "punchy"???

That's why I kind of focussed on answering the OP with a bit about drums. Really it could apply to almost any dynamic instrument though. I really really believe that for punch/impact compression is not the only answer and sometimes even makes punch/impact weaker... as in the LOUDNESS WAR.

I have a feeling you and I don't actually disagree but are used to using different terms.
 
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