How to Give a Song Direction?

caycay

New member
How do you give a track direction? How do you make your chords and melodies sound like they have direction in your song?


BTW: Bandcoach, I sent you a reply but it doesnt look like my dm is working or something. Anyways what I saw between the 2 songs was that your piece seemed to have instruments come in and out without you expecting it almost. The instuments coming in and out of the track didnt seem to be "glued to the track"

Also, I didnt seem to hear any melodies/chords end or begin on a root note. I'm not sure if that matters though....

---------- Post added 03-13-2013 at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was 03-10-2013 at 09:20 AM ----------

Bump....
 
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i tend to just "go with the flow" n other times take a bong rip or two lol
 
well it all depends on the genre in my opinion, for example: progressive house, in most prog house songs you have na intro, the main melody, a break, the main melody with more sounds and whatnot ( I call them "layers") and then another break but also with more layer then the final part of the song is the melody with all the sounds added and then an outro, it gives it a sense of "coming, being and then leaving"
id link a song or two but i cant yet Dx
 
How do you give a track direction? How do you make your chords and melodies sound like they have direction in your song?


BTW: Bandcoach, I sent you a reply but it doesnt look like my dm is working or something. Anyways what I saw between the 2 songs was that your piece seemed to have instruments come in and out without you expecting it almost. The instuments coming in and out of the track didnt seem to be "glued to the track"

Also, I didnt seem to hear any melodies/chords end or begin on a root note. I'm not sure if that matters though....

---------- Post added 03-13-2013 at 12:08 PM ---------- Previous post was 03-10-2013 at 09:20 AM ----------

Bump....

I wrote out an answer to this and had a browser crash (I was also downloading the beta of Reason 7 at the time) so lost the lot.

Take 2.

This post is in response to a series of e-mail exchanges between myself and caycay

caycay said:
Hey bandcoach, I was wondering if you could help me with a problem I've been having lately....I been asking for feedback on some of my tracks, and some people say my tracks have "no direction", but I'm not sure what they mean.

This is an example of one of the tracks:



if you could help me out, i would apreciate it.

to which I replied

bandcoach said:
I'm going to refer you to one of my pieces that has similar vibe but is far less meandering



compare and contrast the differences between the two works for yourself - writing down what you can hear clearly and what seems muffled

then get back to me.

I'll then review the two works with you so that you understand why I have suggested this....


BC

to which caycay responded

caycay said:
In your track, it seemed like the piece never ended. Like it kept going. Im not sure, but I'm not sure if I ever heard it end or begin on a root note/chord. Im not sure if that matters. I just cant explain why it seemed liked it never ended...

Also the instruments seemed to come in very unexpectedly in your piece. Liked they werent "glued" to the track.

Thats all could really tell from the track....

So, my point to you was that sometimes a track will meander along, seemingly going nowhere.

pianissimo percussive
My piece actually has a strong internal structure that provides the coherence for everything else.

Melodically, instead of having the melody play on one instrument in a single pitch region, I used different instruments and octaves to present it, creating both a cohesive and, at the same time, disjunct melodic contour. If we were to shift the melody back into the one octave region, it would not have the disjointed feel (losing some of its charm and character) but it would still be a viable melodic line, perhaps a little less engaging. Using points of sound or lines of sound in different registers with different timbres is a well explored technique from the 13th century and onwards.

Harmonically the piece is bereft of progression, instead sticking to almost a monotonality or "monochordality". The resolution is obtained through the juxtaposition of the various melodic lines, achieving resolution through melodic cadence rather than harmonic cadence.

yellaowolo/2-14-13-1
In your piece, different parts of your instrumental forces are changing chords at different times, causing tensions that some folks might feel are unnecessary or even unwanted.

Your bass notes change from root to non-chord scale tones without good cause: you are not moving to another chord, but using it as an upper decoration of the root - if you had gone to the tone below and then come back most folks would not even register it as a problem.

The actual rhythm in the bass is disjointed and almost a-rhythmic; I'm not entirely certain but it seems almost as though you have decided to mix triplet and dotted rhythms without thought to how it breaks up the rhythmic insistence required of much of dance music.

You seem stuck between using chord I-ii and Chord I-IV in the progression.

Chord ii has a tendency to resolving to chord V, as does chord IV, but less strongly. Moving directly back to I is adding to the aimlessness of the track and reduces your chords to a sequence (aimless wandering) rather than a progression (directed movement towards a cadence or resolution).

In all, more attention to making your chordal movement more directed and unified will solve some of the issues.

Choosing appropriate rhythms and decorative tones will address some of the other issues.

An often forgotten or even un-learnt aspect of composition is that it is architecture in time: the structures and framework are the elements that everything else must hang from.

If there are flaws in one or more parts of the structures then it is unlikely that the edifice of your music can survive the shortcomings of the design flaws. Where the flaws are meant to be highlights (as in craquelure[sup][1][/sup] in oil painting as the oils dry over centuries), great care must be taken not to overburden them with other flawed materials or concepts: such stretching of the limits of the flaw can cause an otherwise engaging work to fail when viewed at a distance.
 
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Hey Cay Cay,
If you have an iphone ipad or iPod... I highly suggest getting ahold of an absolutely awsome app called " sound prism".
It can be used as a midi controller too...
It's a chord progression and melodic performance app.. By virtue of its interface alone you will be able to create great chord progressions... I learned a lot from dissecting my performances in soundprism pro...
Almost every song I've written in the last few months began with sound prism pro. It has a great way of allowing you to jump between chord voicings in different octaves which can help build tension at transitional points in your songs.

No I'm not a paid rep for the apps developers... It just helped with precisely the issues you mentioned.
 
Hey Cay Cay,
If you have an iphone ipad or iPod... I highly suggest getting ahold of an absolutely awsome app called " sound prism".
It can be used as a midi controller too...
It's a chord progression and melodic performance app.. By virtue of its interface alone you will be able to create great chord progressions... I learned a lot from dissecting my performances in soundprism pro...
Almost every song I've written in the last few months began with sound prism pro. It has a great way of allowing you to jump between chord voicings in different octaves which can help build tension at transitional points in your songs.

No I'm not a paid rep for the apps developers... It just helped with precisely the issues you mentioned.

That sounds nice. Can it analyze your chord progressions? Also is there some sort of version for windows

---------- Post added at 07:42 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:38 PM ----------

I wrote out an answer to this and had a browser crash (I was also downloading the beta of Reason 7 at the time) so lost the lot.

Take 2.

This post is in response to a series of e-mail exchanges between myself and caycay



to which I replied



to which caycay responded



So, my point to you was that sometimes a track will meander along, seemingly going nowhere.

pianissimo percussive
My piece actually has a strong internal structure that provides the coherence for everything else.

Melodically, instead of having the melody play on one instrument in a single pitch region, I used different instruments and octaves to present it, creating both a cohesive and, at the same time, disjunct melodic contour. If we were to shift the melody back into the one octave region, it would not have the disjointed feel (losing some of its charm and character) but it would still be a viable melodic line, perhaps a little less engaging. Using points of sound or lines of sound in different registers with different timbres is a well explored technique from the 13th century and onwards.

Harmonically the piece is bereft of progression, instead sticking to almost a monotonality or "monochordality". The resolution is obtained through the juxtaposition of the various melodic lines, achieving resolution through melodic cadence rather than harmonic cadence.

yellaowolo/2-14-13-1
In your piece, different parts of your instrumental forces are changing chords at different times, causing tensions that some folks might feel are unnecessary or even unwanted.

Your bass notes change from root to non-chord scale tones without good cause: you are not moving to another chord, but using it as an upper decoration of the root - if you had gone to the tone below and then come back most folks would not even register it as a problem.

The actual rhythm in the bass is disjointed and almost a-rhythmic; I'm not entirely certain but it seems almost as though you have decided to mix triplet and dotted rhythms without thought to how it breaks up the rhythmic insistence required of much of dance music.

You seem stuck between using chord I-ii and Chord I-IV in the progression.

Chord ii has a tendency to resolving to chord V, as does chord IV, but less strongly. Moving directly back to I is adding to the aimlessness of the track and reduces your chords to a sequence (aimless wandering) rather than a progression (directed movement towards a cadence or resolution).

In all, more attention to making your chordal movement more directed and unified will solve some of the issues.

Choosing appropriate rhythms and decorative tones will address some of the other issues.

An often forgotten or even un-learnt aspect of composition is that it is architecture in time: the structures and framework are the elements that everything else must hang from.

If there are flaws in one or more parts of the structures then it is unlikely that the edifice of your music can survive the shortcomings of the design flaws. Where the flaws are meant to be highlights (as in craquelure[SUP][1][/SUP] in oil painting as the oils dry over centuries), great care must be taken not to overburden them with other flawed materials or concepts: such stretching of the limits of the flaw can cause an otherwise engaging work to fail when viewed at a distance.

Thanks bandcoach. That helped a lot...Also you said some keys were out of the scale. I'm pretty sure im playing in key, but sometimes I'll make a track, and some of the keys will sound out of key. Would using blue scales cause that problem?
 
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Hey Cay Cay,
If you have an iphone ipad or iPod... I highly suggest getting ahold of an absolutely awsome app called " sound prism".
It can be used as a midi controller too...
It's a chord progression and melodic performance app.. By virtue of its interface alone you will be able to create great chord progressions... I learned a lot from dissecting my performances in soundprism pro...
Almost every song I've written in the last few months began with sound prism pro. It has a great way of allowing you to jump between chord voicings in different octaves which can help build tension at transitional points in your songs.

No I'm not a paid rep for the apps developers... It just helped with precisely the issues you mentioned.
That sounds nice. Can it analyze your chord progressions? Also is there some sort of version for windows

It doesn't work in reverse, i.e. it is a controller for driving MIDI devices and generating ideas as a MIDI file, this is an implementation of Dimitri Tymocko's Geometries of Music concepts tied to Neo-Riemannian theory - I did a summary a while back, which I do not seem to be able to find at the moment (no amount of search term manipulation is getting em even close - I'd hate to think the thread was deleted for whatever reasons). What you do need to be careful of here is that this approach to harmony whilst offering unusual chord sequences my not always generate a satisfactory progression.....

Thanks bandcoach. That helped a lot...Also you said some keys were out of the scale. I'm pretty sure im playing in key, but sometimes I'll make a track, and some of the keys will sound out of key. Would using blue scales cause that problem?

No I did not say that anything was out of scale, only that some notes in the bass were non-chord tones and were setting up expectations of chordal movement that did not eventuate
 
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Thanks so much band coach for the insights on music theory and links to background on neo Riemannian theory. It's very generous of you to spend your time helping out

---------- Post added at 08:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 07:13 AM ----------

Cay Cay,
Sorry , there is no windows version of soundprism.
You asked if it can analyze chords... No.
However, if I'm looking for chord prog ideas, I will sometimes use an app called "ProChords" on iphone which allows you to build chord progressions and gives you suggestions for each chord step ..
The suggestions are based on a data base of popular musical chord progressions. I also use an app called Octavian to find a scale to work with my chords if I'm having trouble finding one.
Obviously , none of these apps is substitute for knowing your theory... However they can take some of the bite out of the rigors of the theory and allow you to enjoy the process of creation.
 
No I did not say that anything was out of scale, only that some notes in the bass were non-chord tones and were setting up expectations of chordal movement that did not eventuate

Thats interesting, i gunna have to read up on that. Thanks
 
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