How do I get my foot in the door?

S

SifuBeats

Guest
I got tons of music I think might be good in scoring a movie, but have no idea where to start looking to put them to use.

If there happens to be any people wanting movies scored, I'll do it for damn near free. I'm just trying to get a name for myself.

www.soundclick.com/sifubeats
 
First, it's who you know. Gotta have a connect with someone on the inside...period. Someone who knows your track record, and how well you are to work with. Relationships are EVERYTHING. No one likes working with an egomaniac, a flake, or someone who can't take criticism. Second, if you don't have an impressive resume, no one is going to look at you in the first place. Third you need an agent. However, a good agency won't take you on if they don't think they can pitch you...so back to the impressive resume subject. Oh, and another very important thing...you need to have a good reel of music. I live close to Los Angeles and EVERYONE out here wants to score for film. Many of them are very, very good and can't find work. My advice to you, go to college and get a degree...then pursue music secondary to that.

Cheers,
 
Last edited:
SifuBeats said:
I got tons of music I think might be good in scoring a movie, but have no idea where to start looking to put them to use.

If there happens to be any people wanting movies scored, I'll do it for damn near free. I'm just trying to get a name for myself.

www.soundclick.com/sifubeats
Click to expand...


Just a bit of info for ya'... when you score a film, that means you actually SCORE a film.

That means you actually write original music for the film... working along with the picture... placing musical changes frame specific to the action on the screen.

Occasionally, you may be able to throw some old piece against a scene and it may work, but don't count on it.


If you want to get into film scoring, your best bet is to find film students who need music for their projects... you will probably have to do it for free.

...but it gives you something you can put on your "reel" or resume`. Build up a name for yourself, get to know some important people, hope that one of those film students makes a "real" movie one day and remembers you.
 
yes definately know how to actually score a piece. notation is still important as is knowing a thing or two about the rest of the process, including Avid suites and the creative film making process.

everyone wants to do film sound.... im a game sound designer which has just as many people thinking they can do it.

practice... make an awesome showreel. spend money on it... its what will make the first steps for you if you know no-one
 
I recommend not being "damn near free", but TOTALLY FREE.

Getting in the music scoring game is difficult and you need to just get any jobs you can get.

Start small with local filmmakers or short films, like the ones at iFilm.com , build up a good resume of projects you have worked on.

When you have a decent resume, try contacting different independent movie production companies. Once you make a good impression on them, people will come to you if you're good.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I recommend NOT doing ANYTHING for "free" or even "damn near free". This is one of the major problems with the industry is people that are giving their stuff away to music supervisors. Pardon me, but that's just stupid. If you are involved in an indie film where you make a deal to score it and get a decent percentage based upon the film's success, that's different. To do stuff just to get your "name out there" isn't going to help you...there's a bazillion little music whores out there trying to "make it big" doing this. That's a totally false ideology. What ends up happening is that it cheapens the business of music making, putting hard-working, quality writers out of business. I get work because of these key factors:

1. I'm reliable.
2. I'm very easy to work with and can take criticism well.
3. My work is of high quality.
4. I've proven that I can produce tracks that land and have a good track record.
5. I've gotten more and more work from referrals because of the above.

Giving your music away for "free" will win respect from no one. It gives people the impression that your music isn't good enough to charge for it. It devalues the entire market. If it's good, music supervisors should have to pay for it. For crying out loud...they can afford it.
 
Last edited:
I'm kind of with Midihead on this one. Sure, I've done my first few film projects for free (or with a percentage deal worked out - which rarely amounts to anything anyway) because I understand the budget constraints of some projects. But I did it on the understanding that if I did a good job, they would come back to me next time with a respectable offer. Which is actually starting to happen now.

"No pay on this job" is usually accompanied by "But copy and credit given and will look great in your portfolio". Copy and credit should be mandatory - how hard is it to send the composer a DVD/VHS and to add their name to the credits?

The idea that getting your name on a few low-budget projects will get you noticed is completely false. What gets you noticed is doing a good job, to deadline, and to the brief supplied.

Just use your intuition and only do those projects that really grab you and that you think are worthwhile.
 
bluemask, let me take this one step further with you...

The entire point of participating in a credit/copy gig is exposure, which is the exact pitch you'll get from filmmakers.

What they'll say hear is: "You'll get great exposure as we plan to submit to all the major festivals."

Nig*a, please. Speaking as someone who has a film actually *in* the festival circuit, it's just not that easy. Someone who states the above is simply disillusioned with the reality of the festival market. It typically costs at least $50 to submit to a festival (barring a waiver from the festival itself), and there are something like 2,500 festivals in N. America alone. Do the math: if they can't pay for score, there's no way they're gonna pay for festival entry fees.

Furthermore, top-tier festivals ala Sundance, AFM, Toronto, Cannes, etc are damn near impossible to participate in without some kind of sponsorship (read: political connections.)

The point of my rant here is that you need to measure the amount of work you're considering putting into a project against the probablility of it actually seeing the light of day. There's nothing wrong with taking on a film because you need experience or exposure, but be clear about what your payoff is going to be, especially if it's not cash. Bear in mind, you get absolutely no benefit from working on a project that's never seen.

I disagree (in principle) with midihead's assertion that working for "free" cheapens the market. Dude, the market's already been cheapened by the hordes of pirate Fruity-loops "producers" out there trying to find gigs; Supply and demand, baby.

On another point, however, I agree with mididhead, and that's the point about not ever doing anything for free....and he's right. Even if you only charge a stipend - $50 or $100 - you've got a responsibility to yourself to give your work VALUE. Further, it's my contention that directors and producers should get in the habit of paying you anyway. Might as well start sooner than later.

Sorry for the length of my rant here. I'll close with a couple of things passed on by people much smarter than I:

"Luck" is when Opportunity and Preparedness meet.

Advice is a form of nostalgia.

Every gig you ever get in the film business will be a referral. THINK ABOUT THAT!!

Don't let desperation get the best of you: if the deal's not right, WALK AWAY.
 
"I disagree (in principle) with midihead's assertion that working for "free" cheapens the market. Dude, the market's already been cheapened by the hordes of pirate Fruity-loops "producers" out there trying to find gigs; Supply and demand, baby."

Yea, but if even all of these guys made quality material and actually charged for it...who cares what they're using? My point is that if you're proud of what you do, you shouldn't be afraid to be compensated for it in some way. Just getting "credit" may not be enough unless you are allowed to use that credit to collect royalties through a performing rights organization.

Bottom line, scoring for film (and making a good living doing it) is like trying to become a rock star or movie star. In all reality, you have to roll with many of the same punches...and MOST people get knocked out of the ring trying. If it weren't for my day job, I'd be starving trying to make music for a living...and I've written music for The Matrix Reloaded, The Ryan Seacrest Show, Access Hollywood, NBC's Las Vegas, blah, blah, blah. Not one of those I've done for free.

Cheerz,
 
"who cares what they're using? My point is that if you're proud of what you do, you shouldn't be afraid to be compensated for it in some way. Just getting "credit" may not be enough unless you are allowed to use that credit to collect royalties through a performing rights organization. "
Click to expand...

I thought this is what i'd said....


well, either way: ditto!


As an aside, how did you get your music placed on those shows? Were you for-hire? Appears I may have something to learn from you...
 
and you want the production of what you did music for to do really good too, better they do more money you will get or atleast you can cut a deal.
I love how you have to be a good producer to get deals and just being a composer is not enough at all(pain in the ass) that's life.
I probably have the wrong attitude but I will not do music for free , done it in the past have had companies crash, lose artists, there whole money go down the drain not being able to complete the project there working on , and yea, if I do something I want to be paid^_* Exposer is one thing, but I think constantly doing stuff for free would show people in the bizz that you aren't very professional no matter what you your music is doing... hey Matrix reloaded*the game?* huh they used that (overly) used Absynth2
I think working for free cheapens you as an artist to work professionally in the eyes of those that would pay for your work...
 
I've gotten my gigs through a publisher. It was a happy accident, really. I've been producing and writing since '89, mostly albums. I know how difficult it is to break into the industry, because I'd tried and failed SEVERAL times. I moved to Los Angeles because of a job out here...totally unrelated to music. My wife had to work as well, and got a job at a prestigious private school. It was at that school where she met my publisher, and gave him a CD of my music. It's fairly par for the course...you get IN by meeting people on the INSIDE. In my case, it began with luck. But it was building and sustaining a very good working relationship that has given me success. Now, I'm the guy that my publisher turns to for EVERYTHING related to electronic music.

It is my hope that someday soon, I will be able to pitch my material directly to music supervisors and thus collect on the licensing fee. Right now, I'm getting paid half of the performance royalties and a small, but decent up-front fee for every song I release to my publisher. In the end, he definitely makes his investment back and then some. But sometimes it take a year or two for him to land one of my tracks...some haven't even landed yet. He doesn't make a dime until one does, AND he has to do all the footwork and promotions...so I feel it's a good trade-off. I'll negotiate a percentage of the licensing fee when I feel comfy doing so.

As a note: When I first pitched myself to my publisher, he tested me by asking if I would give him music for free so he could "test the waters" with it. I told him that the quality will "speak for itself". He respected that answer and has done quite well from what I've given him.

Cheerz,
 
I just learned finally to do all this production crap, basically not having the real instruments having to do everything yourself in your little home studio.
Anywayz I have ran into a lot of crazy luck too,(unluck) 4 years ago I was going to compose music for Sony in Japan(yep Japan) reason is this: I met a guy that ran an asian escourt service and knew a guy in Sony(used his service) so I gave him a cd and he liked some of the pieces(game music stuff) so had things going only there was a catch I needed to go with this guy through asia and meet chicks in bars for his service...(yea that didn't happen) but hey I didn't give up(ok I met one chick)

then I met David Kellog a big time producer right here where I am(Minnesota), he wanted to work together , me do composition him do the producing mastering. I was game you bet! SO I met this guy that was doing this Scifi show and was setting up a deal, my friend didnt get back to me and I couldnt' find him(turns out he was all over the US and Cuba and Bahamas doing the production for some upcoming Singer) of Course the deal didn't go through then.

Then I was going to be New Type USA Japanese anime magazine about my pathetic Inuyasha page, but the Chief editor resigned LOL!(she had a her reasons) the new editor of that magazine well didn't care) so that didn't happen. Then I was going to write music for a game in Japan (Hentai dating game) only I turned it down because I honestly didn't have the production high enough. (how can you do work if you have to do the production and you haven't gotten your production high enough, enough said)

so like I have tried to publish classical music and my publishers took more money then I got, let's see there was a game in Europe people will never hear the music too or the game as there company crashed(ran out of money)

oh yea I was in Japanese magazine about some doujinshi Card Captor Sakura page(but I fooked up and people used my music for free) ooops)
Yea I have tons of other unsuccessful stories^_*

now though I have it all set up and will be doing it all on my own
sending out a demo cd for games, movies whatever. looking to publish classical music and Jazz too though.
and yea looking at Japan for (jpop)

Midihead I dont' see how you can have any problem with scoring deals if you already have connections inside the bizz. I mean are you on Gamasutra
do you go to those
Game Developer Conventions, E3 conventions. I would think you would be big time with money and work for music.
Also on Northern forums there a lot of professional game composers.
 
Midihead, Filmguy and Strangecat, you all make very valid (and experienced, from the sounds of it) points and it seems there's a basic agreement that working for free long-term is going to do you no real favours.

And quite right. I hate analogies of this type, but you wouldn't treat a plumber or mechanic in the way that a large number of producers seem to treat composers, ie fix my sink for free this time and I'll spread the word about what a good job you do (for free). If you've got a skill that's taken time and experience to develop, you should be paid when you put it to someone else's use.

I'm certainly no veteran at this game and I've got a long way to go before I can put forward a legitimate view of what it's really like in this business but I'm starting to make some contacts who are coming back to me because we work well together. I'm not looking to hit the big time, just to keep moving forwards. I'm hoping that maybe, in a few years time, I might be able to earn the equivalent amount of what I get at an average day-job but at actually doing something I genuinely enjoy (who said ambition was dead eh?...:)

So, going back to the original thread, I'd say a good way to get your foot in the door is simply to be realistic. Apply for jobs you think you can do well and then prove it. (And of course take the odd chance on things you might not normally go for). Versatility is the key (as well as hard work, a dash of luck, and oh yeah, good music).

One final thought:

"I got tons of music I think might be good in scoring a movie, but have no idea where to start looking to put them to use."

It's one thing watching a film on the big screen and thinking "my hot-rocking zombie ninja-shark porn track would go so damn well there.". The trouble with that is it's you fitting a film of your choice to your music in your own time. If you get a film to work on, the chances of a pre-written track fitting in terms of feel/drama/pace/timing/genre/length etc is going to be greatly reduced. (unless of course you only apply for hot-rocking zombie ninja-shark porn films...)

And I'm sure anyone else who has written for visuals might agree, it's much more rewarding to have crafted a piece specifically for a scene anyway.

Now, I'm off to watch "Jaws VII - Shark love in zombietown"...
 
"Midihead I don't' see how you can have any problem with scoring deals if you already have connections inside the bizz. I mean are you on Gamasutra"

My publisher hasn't really pushed my tunes to the vid game circuit. Mostly TV and movie trailers for the time being. He's a one-man operation, and is slowly branching out as he gains more connections. See, as I stated earlier people won't even consider you if they haven't already heard something good about you. I personally don't have the time to do my own legwork because I'm the creative director of one of my company's projects during the day. Fortunately, it's music related...so I'm able to use my talents there. It's better for me to keep the music gig on the side because it's such an unreliable source of income.

I did just recently do a remix for the new DDR Ultramix that's coming out sometime this month. That's as close as I've gotten to the video game world though...another tough biz.
 
Last edited:
I'll post here when I am doing music for some game, I know some people in the bizz, (I will not be an inhouse game composer) cool your agent sounds like he keeps it going.

always remember! High Class Porn Movies have High Class music^_*

at the moment I am looking for an agent for jazz and classical music, or celtic music, or japanese tradional music, (basically real musicians playing the music)

For Film, Celtic is extremely popular, hell you could just through down some pads, have some chick sing ahh(some meldoy in dorian mode whatever)through in some harp and WALA! Producers fall all over that. Ethreal sounding music.
 
just remember...

...when you are dealing with a student film, the kid making it is scraping his lunch money together to even pay for the film stock... 99.999% of the time, the purpose in making a student film is to get experience in the craft... if someone has a good student film and has no budget for money, you should do the music because it will give you something good to put on your reel.

...when you are dealing with a small budget indie film, they usually don't even have enough money to get all the shots they need let alone pay alot for music... Indie films are usually a "labor of love" and they also give you something good to put on your reel.

...with bigger indie films, they may have some money for music (but probably not)... but they will not hire you if you have no experience at all, and doing some student films and such is a good way to get some experience.

...and for major big budget films... They will pay you, but do you really think you will be scoring one of those without a lot of real world experience?


So even if you don't get paid any cash for music, the ability to say that you worked on "x" feature film or "y" movie is worth more than the little bit of cash you may get.

you have to have work to get work... it is a catch22, but that is the way it is.

There is a difference between getting "taken advantage of" and "paying your dues"... think of it as an investment in your career... like paying for school. Sometimes it is reasonable to offer work for free.


Midihead,

I know from your website that you did music for a "Matrix Reloaded" commercial... that is a very different thing than doing music for the "Matrix Reloaded" film itself... believe me, if you had done music for the film, you would get other big feature film jobs out of that, and it would be worth much more than what you would have gotten paid.

I would write music for "the Matrix" actual feature film for free (or just about any other huge feature film... why not... it would look great on my reel)... not that anyone is calling me for that anyway :) ... but i wouldn't do the commercial for free. :)
 
yea too true experience in doing an a film so you can get paid for a big film is more then worth it! Then you can have something to show for film(hey did you see that film such such made I did the music etc) Now for games don't even go there for free.
Oh man I thought he ment the movie LOL!!! ok (baka na)
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top