Help with huge drums from scratch. (not 808)

CmRob

CmRob

New member
Hi guys I've been trying to create huge drums like in Owl City's Take It All Away and Back Home (ft. Jake Owen) from scratch.

I have basic to intermediate knowledge in sound synthesis (mainly subractive).
I've been trying for quite a bit now.
I tried compressing, gating and distoring the shit out of acoustic kicks and tried to make the clap sound from layered noise snares using synth1 and the like.

I've tried reverse reverbing kicks (reverse the kick, add reverb the reverse back again).

I've downloaded, and of course mangled with so many free single drum VSTis

I get close but there's always something off, like maybe an off putting resonating tone from the kick that I can't simply correct with EQ , or I can't get the slightly long tail of both the kick and the snare.

The farthest I've reached is about 60-70% there. I'm not trying to fully replicate it but at least something close enough and holds it's own against the real thing.

Any tips? Things that I haven't tried and obviously have overlooked?

BTW please don't just give a samples or links. I would be aweseome if someone has already done it and would show me how they got it.

The reason why I want to do it from scratch, like from a synth or acoustic samples is

1st: I want to be able to control on the keyboard the note of the kick. So it's easier to precisely tune the kick in the key of the song.

2nd: Artists pride? I just want to learn how to make it and I'm studying synthesis and sampling as well.

As much as possible with all FREE stuff because I have no money right now hahaha.

Thanks to those who will reply.
 
I'm not synth expert but I know how to make a decent 808... I think u said u were using sylenth1. First thing u want to do is init patch and just start off with a sine wave drop it down an octave to -1. Go into the amp envelope next and turn down attack all the way and turn down sustain all the way. Put the decay up about half way and the release like half way as well. Next go to filter A and select the low pass filter. Bring the cut off down to like 30 or to your liking.. then you go down to mod env 1 and you select Pitch AB pull everything down to 0 but raise the decay just a bit to make that kick sound.. u can adjust this to how you like it! And the rest is all processing
 
I'm sorry to point this out but my title says "not 808",. BUT I really really do appreciate the reply and if you have time take a listen to the example tracks I gave, if you can, please give me tips if you can get the drum sounds. Also what I've tried is also written on the post.

"Take It All Away"
"Back Home"

Both by Owl City

The drums in the song are what I'm trying to replicate. Much much bigger sounding than any 808 or any kick on most hard edm tracks. :)

Thanks again!
 
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Def can't help with that lol to advanced for me.. but I know u said u didn't want samples too bad because I have a few kicks that sound just like that.. but I understand sometimes you just want to be able to make it yourself I'm like that with a lot of stuff too!
 
No Prob!! Thanks anyway. :D Any suggestions or ideas are welcome.
 
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i don't think this is a matter of choosing samples and layering them. the effect of a big drumset can be created
by making good use of reverb on the bus or individual instruments.
not only that, but you can use eq's, compressors and saturators to achieve this.
remember, it's not the loudness of the drums themselves that make them sound big, it's the fact that the other
instruments are panned and brought down in volume to create space for the drums.
 
Jackie P. Thanks for the reply!!

Yeah I recently just got the kick drum sound by layering Synth1, Drumatic 3 and Korzenie Kick and some processing (heavy compression, filtering and limiting). I was even able to make a noise based kick in the process. Given that reverb use varies per track, I held back on the any reverb or any spatial effects, as I wanted to apply this drumkit it on quite a few songs.

I apologize, I forgot to mention that I have advanced skills in mixing and sound design.
So I guess in the back of my head, effect processing and basic sound design techniques was a given.

I was actually able to make this drum sound the 1st time easily by layering samples I already had and simply processing them but I wanted to easily control the kick's tuning with MIDI input, so I desired to make it with synthesis. I am now looking for a replacement of drumatic ang Korzenie as both do not give me the option to control their tuning with my MIDI keyboard.


and yes, I am well aware of the volume & panning compensations done on the songs. Whenever I feel lazy I ditch automation and just use Meldaproduction compressor's sidechain input to duck the mids (as in mid/side) that clash with my chosen main sound. However I simply want to replicate the Kick and the clap/snare.

At the ending of the song "take it all away" it is obvious that there was, in simple words, some ducking or volume automation done. At the very end of the song, the last sounds played were the kick and snare drums (with the background arp pad), which sounds huge. So it's safe to say that the drums by themselves initially, sound big then all the other sounds around it were processed accordingly. Sorry for the lack of better terms hahaha but you get it.


Well for now I'm left with no clap/snare to match the kick. I'll try to make it tomorrow.
In the mean time anymore suggestions? Or like actual tips on how to go about this? Again all replies are well appreciated and welcome. :D
 
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well, it seems to me i can learn more from you than you from me :P
it seems to me all you're really trying to do is adjust the tuning of your drumkit with midi.
that strongly depends on the daw and the instruments you're using in it.
so the only advice i can give you is to look into reason, as i find it really convenient for making drums.
it has a drumdesigner built in, and you can rewire it into another DAW, do do further processing and mixing.
 
There's a shortish 808 layered underneath the acoustic kick.

I never find distortion works very well on drums for me. Limiting yes, but not actual distortion. It's tempting because it makes things seem louder and thicker but actually it doesn't add the right kind of harmonics
 
scrapheaper, yeah the attack part is somewhat 808-ish. Which is what I ended up emulating with Drumatic.

Yup I got the kick sound with no distortion at all.
I agree.Unless it's super subtle, I only use distortion on drums creatively like on breaks or if the drum part is just a sonic filler on a track.

Also, adding distortion can go against what I initially intended, which easily controlling the tuning of the kick with MIDI input. Some distortion effects do add wrong sounding and sometimes resonating harmonics to the point that it messes with the tuning of the drums. Especially with what I did, using noise oscillators, distortion? No Thanks.

:cheers:
 
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