Creating Realistic Strings

chen2600

New member
Hi Everyone,

If this message should be in another sub-forum, I apologize in advance.

I am trying to create a track with realistic strings basically,
which will be part of a song in the end..

I'm working with FL Studio, with the "Sytrus" plugin which came with it, and has different strings ensembles .
I'm manually controlling the volume automation throughout the track, to
make it sound more like real violins , but I'm not feeling the results are professional.

I'm playing the notes on a MIDI-piano I have, and FL studio sends them to the strings plugin .

One of the best examples for what I'd like to achieve, is a strings ensemble part in a
song by Moby , called "In This World" , which can be heard around 2:20 in the song.
I've heard Moby didn't use a real strings ensemble for this, so it's a good example I guess.

I am a beginner, so buying 'Symphobia' or other strings packs which cost 600$+ is over my head..
But I'd really like to get some good results from the tools I already have.

Does anyone have an idea how to create a realistic , professional track, of a MIDI-controlled strings ensemble ?

Sorry for the long post , and Thanks for any help :)

Chen
 
I've also been very interested in creating realistic string sounds for various applications. It seems when you use sound fonts your a slave to the soundfonts default envelope because altering it sounds unnatural. Also you really miss out out on the nuances of real strings. Is there a method to creating these sounds and having alot of control over more aspects of the sound?
 
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Agreed, Edioral Orchestra, (not spelled right) is pretty dope, i always run into a problem with in not saving my sounds, Layering String Sounds can also help too!
 
Hi Everyone,

If this message should be in another sub-forum, I apologize in advance.

I am trying to create a track with realistic strings basically,
which will be part of a song in the end..

I'm working with FL Studio, with the "Sytrus" plugin which came with it, and has different strings ensembles .
I'm manually controlling the volume automation throughout the track, to
make it sound more like real violins , but I'm not feeling the results are professional.

I'm playing the notes on a MIDI-piano I have, and FL studio sends them to the strings plugin .

One of the best examples for what I'd like to achieve, is a strings ensemble part in a
song by Moby , called "In This World" , which can be heard around 2:20 in the song.
I've heard Moby didn't use a real strings ensemble for this, so it's a good example I guess.

I am a beginner, so buying 'Symphobia' or other strings packs which cost 600$+ is over my head..
But I'd really like to get some good results from the tools I already have.

Does anyone have an idea how to create a realistic , professional track, of a MIDI-controlled strings ensemble ?

Sorry for the long post , and Thanks for any help :)

Chen

To get the swells in sound that you hear, you would use the expression controller rather than the volume controller. This is because moving the volume control about, whilst doing the same thing, actually changes the channel level, whereas the expression controller is changing the harmonic content (opening a filter or closing a filter).

String writing requires more than just selecting a sound and playing some notes:

A string ensemble will consist of a number of different string instruments:
Violins ~ range from G[sub]2[/sub]-E[sub]6[/sub]
Violas ~ range from C[sub]1[/sub]-A[sub]5[/sub]
Violoncellos ~ range from C[sub]0[/sub]-A[sub]4[/sub]
Double bass (optional) ~ range from E[sub]-1[/sub]-G[sub]3[/sub]

caveat about octave numbers
Middle C = MIDI Note Number 60 = C[sub]3[/sub] in most daws = C[sub]5[/sub] in fl.


Grouping and size
Group nameSize 1Size 2Size 3
Violin I126
Violin II124
Violas11/22/3
Violoncellos11/22/3
basses0/10/10/1/2

the groups can be larger if you are going to use full orchestral forces i.e. 23 1sts, 15 2nds, 9 violas, 8 'cellos, 4 basses or even more if you are a Mahlerian type of writer....

Voicing
The higher you go the closer together you can have different instrument lines.

This means that anything in or above the treble clef (E[sub]3[/sub] and higher) can be played in close harmony, whilst anything below middle C should be played a 5th or an octave or more apart.

The basses are likely to double the violoncello line or to simply play the root of the current chord. You may occasionally find them playing an independent part either bowed or pizzicato.

Internal movement
When writing for strings the tendency is to provide static lines that move very little when changing chords. This maintains a smooth, less distracting movement and may be appropriate for some parts.

However, most of the strings are capable of quick changes in octave and timbre/register, so it would be a shame to not exploit this where possible. A cello line that jumps a 6th or more above or below the current note and then returns within the octave may be just the spark needed to bring your otherwise dull string section to life; similarly with the violas and the violins.

For some of the specialised bowing and picking techniques you may need a more complex string library. For the most part, however, even something as simple as a free plugin or soundfont will allow you to write meaningful and interesting string parts.

Go here Principles of Orchestration - Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov for more insight into writing for strings and other orchestral instruments

And wrong section.

Actually it is the right section as it is about how to emulate/mimic the behaviour of real strings, which is an orchestration question, which like it or not is a theory question as well as a composition question
 
To get the swells in sound that you hear, you would use the expression controller rather than the volume controller. This is because moving the volume control about, whilst doing the same thing, actually changes the channel level, whereas the expression controller is changing the harmonic content (opening a filter or closing a filter).

String writing requires more than just selecting a sound and playing some notes:

A string ensemble will consist of a number of different string instruments:
Violins ~ range from G[SUB]2[/SUB]-E[SUB]6[/SUB]
Violas ~ range from C[SUB]1[/SUB]-A[SUB]5[/SUB]
Violoncellos ~ range from C[SUB]0[/SUB]-A[SUB]4[/SUB]
Double bass (optional) ~ range from E[SUB]-1[/SUB]-G[SUB]3[/SUB]

caveat about octave numbers
Middle C = MIDI Note Number 60 = C[SUB]3[/SUB] in most daws = C[SUB]5[/SUB] in fl.


Grouping and size
Group nameSize 1Size 2Size 3
Violin I126
Violin II124
Violas11/22/3
Violoncellos11/22/3
basses0/10/10/1/2

the groups can be larger if you are going to use full orchestral forces i.e. 23 1sts, 15 2nds, 9 violas, 8 'cellos, 4 basses or even more if you are a Mahlerian type of writer....

Voicing
The higher you go the closer together you can have different instrument lines.

This means that anything in or above the treble clef (E[SUB]3[/SUB] and higher) can be played in close harmony, whilst anything below middle C should be played a 5th or an octave or more apart.

The basses are likely to double the violoncello line or to simply play the root of the current chord. You may occasionally find them playing an independent part either bowed or pizzicato.

Internal movement
When writing for strings the tendency is to provide static lines that move very little when changing chords. This maintains a smooth, less distracting movement and may be appropriate for some parts.

However, most of the strings are capable of quick changes in octave and timbre/register, so it would be a shame to not exploit this where possible. A cello line that jumps a 6th or more above or below the current note and then returns within the octave may be just the spark needed to bring your otherwise dull string section to life; similarly with the violas and the violins.

For some of the specialised bowing and picking techniques you may need a more complex string library. For the most part, however, even something as simple as a free plugin or soundfont will allow you to write meaningful and interesting string parts.

Go here Principles of Orchestration - Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov for more insight into writing for strings and other orchestral instruments



Actually it is the right section as it is about how to emulate/mimic the behaviour of real strings, which is an orchestration question, which like it or not is a theory question as well as a composition question
It was originally in the sampling section.
 
Hi ,
Thank you very much everyone!
Bandcoach, I thank you especially , your post and knowledge are awesome!

Chen
 
To get the swells in sound that you hear, you would use the expression controller rather than the volume controller. This is because moving the volume control about, whilst doing the same thing, actually changes the channel level, whereas the expression controller is changing the harmonic content (opening a filter or closing a filter).

String writing requires more than just selecting a sound and playing some notes:



A string ensemble will consist of a number of different string instruments:
Violins ~ range from G[SUB]2[/SUB]-E[SUB]6[/SUB]
Violas ~ range from C[SUB]1[/SUB]-A[SUB]5[/SUB]
Violoncellos ~ range from C[SUB]0[/SUB]-A[SUB]4[/SUB]
Double bass (optional) ~ range from E[SUB]-1[/SUB]-G[SUB]3[/SUB]

caveat about octave numbers
Middle C = MIDI Note Number 60 = C[SUB]3[/SUB] in most daws = C[SUB]5[/SUB] in fl.


Grouping and size
Group nameSize 1Size 2Size 3
Violin I126
Violin II124
Violas11/22/3
Violoncellos11/22/3
basses0/10/10/1/2

the groups can be larger if you are going to use full orchestral forces i.e. 23 1sts, 15 2nds, 9 violas, 8 'cellos, 4 basses or even more if you are a Mahlerian type of writer....

Voicing
The higher you go the closer together you can have different instrument lines.

This means that anything in or above the treble clef (E[SUB]3[/SUB] and higher) can be played in close harmony, whilst anything below middle C should be played a 5th or an octave or more apart.

The basses are likely to double the violoncello line or to simply play the root of the current chord. You may occasionally find them playing an independent part either bowed or pizzicato.

Internal movement
When writing for strings the tendency is to provide static lines that move very little when changing chords. This maintains a smooth, less distracting movement and may be appropriate for some parts.

However, most of the strings are capable of quick changes in octave and timbre/register, so it would be a shame to not exploit this where possible. A cello line that jumps a 6th or more above or below the current note and then returns within the octave may be just the spark needed to bring your otherwise dull string section to life; similarly with the violas and the violins.



For some of the specialised bowing and picking techniques you may need a more complex string library. For the most part, however, even something as simple as a free plugin or soundfont will allow you to write meaningful and interesting string parts.

Go here Principles of Orchestration - Nikolai Rimsky-Korsakov for more insight into writing for strings and other orchestral instruments



Actually it is the right section as it is about how to emulate/mimic the behaviour of real strings, which is an orchestration question, which like it or not is a theory question as well as a composition question


hey all, you might not understand what i mean but how do i go about playing my strings really fast on a point,say at the end of 4 bars. is it really fast single notes or a combination or say chords and then more strings on top of it play the same thing quiker? its hard to explain but i can only get the correct hits using samples,playing them i never can get the notes or the chords right. also what do you mean by expression controller? low pass filter on a synth? controlling that? any help highly appreciated
 
an audio example would help me identify more clearly what you want to do. At the moment you seem to be asking about tremolando bowing (repeated quick attacks of the same note with a continuously changing bowing pressure and direction) or even tremolando playing ,where two or more notes are alternated between using the above type of bowing. This can be achieved either by using separate notes or a specific bowing patch in your string vst.

Expression is MIDI continuous controller #005: it used for temporary changes to the volume of a channel, leaving the volume controller's (MIDI CC#007) value untouched. It can be used to alter volume or be used to open a filter in specific patches - the implementation is left to the discretion of the individual manufacturers/sample sets/sample players
 
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I'm not sure there is any sound sytrus can not produce. You can use subtractive synth oscillators, as a building block for its Additive engine and then use those waveforms to ring/frequency modulate 1-6 operators. 3 filters and an effect module.
But as for your question.. Check the matrix of one of those string presets. You can add an envelope with a long attack or maybe a global lfo to one of the operators MOD sections. What this those is control how much frequency modulation the operator will recieve/be modulated by.
 
I'm not sure there is any sound sytrus can not produce. You can use subtractive synth oscillators, as a building block for its Additive engine and then use those waveforms to ring/frequency modulate 1-6 operators. 3 filters and an effect module.
But as for your question.. Check the matrix of one of those string presets. You can add an envelope with a long attack or maybe a global lfo to one of the operators MOD sections. What this those is control how much frequency modulation the operator will recieve/be modulated by.

Hey man,
It seems like there's a knowledge gap here since I've only heard on some of the terms you mentioned,
If someone has a link for a good tutorial about Sytrus I'll appreciate if he'll share it here,
Thanks again
Chen
 
an audio example would help me identify more clearly what you want to do. At the moment you seem to be asking about tremolando bowing (repeated quick attacks of the same note with a continuously changing bowing pressure and direction) or even tremolando playing ,where two or more notes are alternated between using the above type of bowing. This can be achieved either by using separate notes or a specific bowing patch in your string vst.

Expression is MIDI continuous controller #005: it used for temporary changes to the volume of a channel, leaving the volume controller's (MIDI CC#007) value untouched. It can be used to alter volume or be used to open a filter in specific patches - the implementation is left to the discretion of the individual manufacturers/sample sets/sample players


hey yeah sorry tried before but the net was dying on me, here is an example Breakbot - Break of Dawn - YouTube the strings parts in that song also in heaps of songs of this style
 
Instead of automating volume you should go to the piano roll, on the bottom there is a velocity window that is always set up to affect volume of the note.. (You can right click on the left and choose other things like panning and mod x or y
 
hey yeah sorry tried before but the net was dying on me, here is an example the strings parts in that song also in heaps of songs of this style


So, yeah, the only special technique I hear in this is the use of long and short glissandos - slides down or up into notes..... most string libraries have the samples for this or allow you to set the portamento time (slide/glide time) between the two notes.

PS thank you for turning me on to breakbot - nice 80's like funk stylings - listening to the youtube mix channel right now.

 
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hmmm interesting..is there certain notes i should be hitting or chord group? would that have a really quik glide/portamento with quick attack not much release and playing my notes up a scale thanks for the help


also is there any good string vsts you know of? I do have good synth though that i can make string parts sound ok with a few effects though
 
Real strings still blows every rompler away. Why the hell has nobody mentioned this yet?
 
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Real strings still blows every rompler away. Why the hell has nobody mentioned this yet?
well I cant play violin and the rest, i just want to make my own so i have more control of the sound, I do get better results sampling them but then the sound can get tiring, i want more variation and try and make my own sound of strings if i can better than my samples?..
 
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Real strings still blows every rompler away. Why the hell has nobody mentioned this yet?

I agree, the best sounding string recordings I have, have been with real string players (one of the benefits of being a student and having access to visiting orchestras and quartets specifically for readings and recordings), but most folks do not have the financial nor physical resources to do that sort of thing - hire string players and record them live - it is a very different approach and the cost structure is hellishly prohibitive
 
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