can someone explain 4,3 chords to me

4-3 progression? Chord 3 and 4 in the scale? Aka the chords starting on the 3rd and 4th degree? I dont wanna get too much into explaining something if its the wrong thing you're talking about. What do you mean?
 
this is why sometimes age and experience trumps youth

a 4/3 chord is a second inversion 7th chord, more fully expressed as a 6/4/3 chord which of course denotes the intervals above a common bass note

so any 7th chord except the dim7 is a candidate for inclusion in this family of chords

Chord TypeTones Example on CSpecific interval qualitiesSemitones above given root note
dom 75-b7-1-3G-Bb-C-Em3-P4-M63-5-9
maj75-7-1-3G-B-C-EM3-P4-M64-5-9
m75-b7-1-b3G-Bb-C-Ebm3-P4-m63-5-8
m7b5b5-b7-1-b3 Gb-Bb-C-EbM3-A4-M64-6-9
min-maj75-7-1-b4G-B-C-EbM3-P4-m64-5-8
7#5#5-b7-1-3G#-Bb-C-Ed3-d4-m62-4-8
7b5b5-b7-1-3Gb-Bb-C-EM3-A4-A64-6-10
m7#5#5-b7-1-b3G#-Bb-C-Ebd3-d4-d62-4-7
maj7#5#5-7-1-3G#-B-C-Em3-d4-m63-4-8
maj7b5b5-7-1-3Gb-B-C-EA3-A4-A65-6-10
min-maj7#5#5-7-1-b3G#-B-C-Ebm3-d4-d63-4-8
min-maj7b5b5-7-1-b3Gb-B-C-EbA3-A4-M65-6-9

dim7 is not a candidate because every inversion is a new named version of the chord consisting as each does of a m3, b5 and bb7
 
so how do i find the 4, 3 chords of a certain key? playing a second inversion of the 7th? kinda confused thanks for the replys
 
alrightythen said:
so how do i find the 4, 3 chords of a certain key? playing a second inversion of the 7th? kinda confused thanks for the replys
Click to expand...
First, learn your scales, chord formulas and cycle of keys.
Most chords are derived from a parent scale by stacking in thirds. For example, in the key of Ab major:
The scale is Ab Bb C Db Eb F G

By stacking in thirds starting from each degree of the Ab major scale, we get:
I7: Ab C Eb G (Ab maj7)
ii7: Bb D F Ab (Bb min7)
iii7: C Eb G Bb (C min7)
IV7: Db F Ab C (Db maj7)
V7: Eb G Bb Db (Eb dom7)
vi7: F Ab C Eb (F min7)
vii7b5: G Bb Db F (G half-dim7 or G min7b5)

Eventually, with enough practice and study, you'll just know what chords belong to what key. When someone ask "play me a D# chord in the key of B major", you will know, without hesitation, they are asking for a minor chord.

By "second inversion of the 7th", what is meant is taking the two lowest notes of a chord and placing them an octave higher-basically, playing a 7th chord with the 5th in bass.
For example, take the Ab maj7 chord:
Root Position: Ab C Eb G
First inversion (placing the bass note an octave higher): C Eb G Ab
Second inversion: Eb G Ab C
Third inversion: G Ab C Eb
Inversions are VERY essential for good voice leading.
 
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thanks pumpthrust that explains alot. so when u say stacking in thirds u basically go up every second note in the scale from a root note and thats your chord like when u would with notes to form a triad chord except its just three notes in the chord? also why are they essential for good voice leading if you dont mind explaining
 
alrightythen said:
thanks pumpthrust that explains alot. so when u say stacking in thirds u basically go up every second note in the scale from a root note and thats your chord like when u would with notes to form a triad chord except its just three notes in the chord? also why are they essential for good voice leading if you dont mind explaining
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Yup, basically. A third is an interval, like when are spelling a C major triad (R-3-5), the distance from C to E is a third, specifically a minor third. This ties into BC's answer to your question about 4/3 chords.
Like, a C major7 4/3 chord would be G B C E as the interval between G and B is a fourth (count up from G to B in the C major scale) and the interval from G to C is a fourth (count up G to C in the C major scale).

Its funny because I stopped calling inversions by their figured bass names after I left school, so I had to think what you originally meant by 4/3 chords.

As for voice-leading, I'm not good at explaining it, but the way I use it is to make the transistion between chords sound smooth by moving the voices in a chord (the notes of a chord) by the smallest possible interval (usually a half-step) and/or keeping certain notes constant. Its something you really need to hear and play to fully understand. For example, take a I IV V7 blues progression in the key of C, most people at the beginning would think to play each chord in root position (root on the bottom), and while its not wrong, it does sound pretty choppy. Think of voice-leading as blurring the lines between each chord so that the transition sounds smooth and natural. This is where inversions are most helpful. Take that blues progressin above in C major:
I: CEG
IV: FAC
V7: GBF ( I am dropping the 5th for this example)
I would play it as CEG-CFA-BFG
Notice that my bassline and inside voices only really move a half-step (C to B, E to F)
Now, please understand that this is how I approach voice-leading, but it gets much much MUCH deeper. My explanation is kindergarten shit, for the most part.
 
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great explanation of voice leading - there really isn't much more to it than what you have written except perhaps handling enharmonic equivalents; all the rest is simply detail on how to move from different chords and why you would use certain voicings for secondary dominants

Pumpthrust said:
When someone ask "play me a D# chord in the key of B major", you will know, without hesitation, they are asking for a minor chord.
Click to expand...

um not quite If I am asked to play the D# chord in B Major I would try both D# major and D# minor or ask them major or minor to be certain - chords without qualification cannot be assumed to be minor or major on the face of it

D# (major) would be a secondary dominant to G#m so it is a reasonable question to ask especially if they are heading into a relative minor passage based on G#m (the relative minor of B major)
 
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ok guys just so is this right. a 4,3 chord is a 7th chord consisting of intervals of third notes with the 2nd inversion rule applied to the chord?? an this is for all scales.. and also say with the voice leading if your playing to chords in 2nd inversion but then the third wont flow as well can u just change it back to a normal chord so it flows better or u better off keeping it all in 7ths with 2nd inversion?
 
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inversions should not be used persistently - they are good for instruments where similar shapes are necessary to resolve otherwise awkward fingering issues but the tone of a single inversion being used eventually wears thin on the listener

so to your question about maintaining a single inversion throughout a passage - no you should vary your inversions as much as you vary chords

the other rule you try to elicit is not a rule at all but fact

All root position chords are spelled as 1-3-5/1-b3-5/1-3-#5/1-3-b5/1-b3-b5/1-b3-#5 - specific spelling depends on the chord type spelling 1-b3-#5 is also a 1st inversion major chord

We add 7ths of the quality 7 or b7 to all of the above spellings and add bb7 to the spelling 1-b3-b5 to form the diminished 7th chord

We then invert these spellings as 3-5-1/b3-5-1/3-#5-1/3-b5-1/b3-b5-1/b3-#5-1 for 1st inversion and 5-1-3/5-1-b3/#5-1-3/b5-1-3/b5-1-b3/#5-1-b3 for 2nd inversion. 7ths and other extensions are simply added into the mix above the indicated bass note

Some last thoughts about chord numbering:

a first inversion chord is a 6(/3) chord
a second inversion chord is a 6/4 chord

a first inversion 7th chord is a 6/5(/3) chord
a second inversion 7th chord is a (6/)4/3 chord
a third inversion 7th chord is a (6/)4/2 chord i.e. the seventh is in the bass

any inversion for a 7th chord is equally applicable to 9ths and above as we usually dispense with the 5th and then later the root of the chord to simplify the voicing

A common example seen in pop song writing is to use F/G as a substitute for the G9sus4 (sometimes rendered as G11) chord - F/G = G-F-A-C G9sus4= G-C-D-F-A G11 = G-B-D-F-A-C
 
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