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Thread: can someone explain 4,3 chords to me

  1. #1
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    can someone explain 4,3 chords to me

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    can some please explain these chords to me and how u find them

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    4 3 chords? triads and 4 note chords?

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    4-3 progression? Chord 3 and 4 in the scale? Aka the chords starting on the 3rd and 4th degree? I dont wanna get too much into explaining something if its the wrong thing you're talking about. What do you mean?

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    this is why sometimes age and experience trumps youth

    a 4/3 chord is a second inversion 7th chord, more fully expressed as a 6/4/3 chord which of course denotes the intervals above a common bass note

    so any 7th chord except the dim7 is a candidate for inclusion in this family of chords

    Chord Type Tones Example on C Specific interval qualities Semitones above given root note
    dom 7 5-b7-1-3 G-Bb-C-E m3-P4-M6 3-5-9
    maj7 5-7-1-3 G-B-C-E M3-P4-M6 4-5-9
    m7 5-b7-1-b3 G-Bb-C-Eb m3-P4-m6 3-5-8
    m7b5 b5-b7-1-b3 Gb-Bb-C-Eb M3-A4-M6 4-6-9
    min-maj7 5-7-1-b4 G-B-C-Eb M3-P4-m6 4-5-8
    7#5 #5-b7-1-3 G#-Bb-C-E d3-d4-m6 2-4-8
    7b5 b5-b7-1-3 Gb-Bb-C-E M3-A4-A6 4-6-10
    m7#5 #5-b7-1-b3 G#-Bb-C-Eb d3-d4-d6 2-4-7
    maj7#5 #5-7-1-3 G#-B-C-E m3-d4-m6 3-4-8
    maj7b5 b5-7-1-3 Gb-B-C-E A3-A4-A6 5-6-10
    min-maj7#5 #5-7-1-b3 G#-B-C-Eb m3-d4-d6 3-4-8
    min-maj7b5 b5-7-1-b3 Gb-B-C-Eb A3-A4-M6 5-6-9

    dim7 is not a candidate because every inversion is a new named version of the chord consisting as each does of a m3, b5 and bb7
    BC: I've been making music since Before Computers were common in music
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  7. #5
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    so how do i find the 4, 3 chords of a certain key? playing a second inversion of the 7th? kinda confused thanks for the replys

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    Quote Originally Posted by alrightythen View Post
    so how do i find the 4, 3 chords of a certain key? playing a second inversion of the 7th? kinda confused thanks for the replys
    First, learn your scales, chord formulas and cycle of keys.
    Most chords are derived from a parent scale by stacking in thirds. For example, in the key of Ab major:
    The scale is Ab Bb C Db Eb F G

    By stacking in thirds starting from each degree of the Ab major scale, we get:
    I7: Ab C Eb G (Ab maj7)
    ii7: Bb D F Ab (Bb min7)
    iii7: C Eb G Bb (C min7)
    IV7: Db F Ab C (Db maj7)
    V7: Eb G Bb Db (Eb dom7)
    vi7: F Ab C Eb (F min7)
    vii7b5: G Bb Db F (G half-dim7 or G min7b5)

    Eventually, with enough practice and study, you'll just know what chords belong to what key. When someone ask "play me a D# chord in the key of B major", you will know, without hesitation, they are asking for a minor chord.

    By "second inversion of the 7th", what is meant is taking the two lowest notes of a chord and placing them an octave higher-basically, playing a 7th chord with the 5th in bass.
    For example, take the Ab maj7 chord:
    Root Position: Ab C Eb G
    First inversion (placing the bass note an octave higher): C Eb G Ab
    Second inversion: Eb G Ab C
    Third inversion: G Ab C Eb
    Inversions are VERY essential for good voice leading.
    Last edited by Pumpthrust; 05-20-2015 at 10:53 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by scrapheaper View Post
    Only on future producers could someone ask about melody and have two posts which don't mention anything about notes.

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  10. #7
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    thanks pumpthrust that explains alot. so when u say stacking in thirds u basically go up every second note in the scale from a root note and thats your chord like when u would with notes to form a triad chord except its just three notes in the chord? also why are they essential for good voice leading if you dont mind explaining

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    Quote Originally Posted by alrightythen View Post
    thanks pumpthrust that explains alot. so when u say stacking in thirds u basically go up every second note in the scale from a root note and thats your chord like when u would with notes to form a triad chord except its just three notes in the chord? also why are they essential for good voice leading if you dont mind explaining
    Yup, basically. A third is an interval, like when are spelling a C major triad (R-3-5), the distance from C to E is a third, specifically a minor third. This ties into BC's answer to your question about 4/3 chords.
    Like, a C major7 4/3 chord would be G B C E as the interval between G and B is a fourth (count up from G to B in the C major scale) and the interval from G to C is a fourth (count up G to C in the C major scale).

    Its funny because I stopped calling inversions by their figured bass names after I left school, so I had to think what you originally meant by 4/3 chords.

    As for voice-leading, I'm not good at explaining it, but the way I use it is to make the transistion between chords sound smooth by moving the voices in a chord (the notes of a chord) by the smallest possible interval (usually a half-step) and/or keeping certain notes constant. Its something you really need to hear and play to fully understand. For example, take a I IV V7 blues progression in the key of C, most people at the beginning would think to play each chord in root position (root on the bottom), and while its not wrong, it does sound pretty choppy. Think of voice-leading as blurring the lines between each chord so that the transition sounds smooth and natural. This is where inversions are most helpful. Take that blues progressin above in C major:
    I: CEG
    IV: FAC
    V7: GBF ( I am dropping the 5th for this example)
    I would play it as CEG-CFA-BFG
    Notice that my bassline and inside voices only really move a half-step (C to B, E to F)
    Now, please understand that this is how I approach voice-leading, but it gets much much MUCH deeper. My explanation is kindergarten shit, for the most part.
    Last edited by bandcoach; 07-14-2015 at 06:48 PM. Reason: C to E is a third -> G to C is a fourth
    Quote Originally Posted by scrapheaper View Post
    Only on future producers could someone ask about melody and have two posts which don't mention anything about notes.

  12. #9
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    great explanation of voice leading - there really isn't much more to it than what you have written except perhaps handling enharmonic equivalents; all the rest is simply detail on how to move from different chords and why you would use certain voicings for secondary dominants

    Quote Originally Posted by Pumpthrust View Post
    When someone ask "play me a D# chord in the key of B major", you will know, without hesitation, they are asking for a minor chord.
    um not quite If I am asked to play the D# chord in B Major I would try both D# major and D# minor or ask them major or minor to be certain - chords without qualification cannot be assumed to be minor or major on the face of it

    D# (major) would be a secondary dominant to G#m so it is a reasonable question to ask especially if they are heading into a relative minor passage based on G#m (the relative minor of B major)
    Last edited by bandcoach; 05-20-2015 at 05:52 AM.
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  14. #10
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    ok guys just so is this right. a 4,3 chord is a 7th chord consisting of intervals of third notes with the 2nd inversion rule applied to the chord?? an this is for all scales.. and also say with the voice leading if your playing to chords in 2nd inversion but then the third wont flow as well can u just change it back to a normal chord so it flows better or u better off keeping it all in 7ths with 2nd inversion?
    Last edited by alrightythen; 05-21-2015 at 06:25 PM.

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