Basslines

S

Sabane

Guest
Anyone have any good advice for basslines? I can do everything else just fine just basslines mess me up. I think my problem is I usually start with a melody then work the drums into that, then when comes time to throw a little bass in there, doesn't matter how I eq it or compress it it seems out or not loud enough. I've tried sin waves, bass samples all kinds but I can't get it to jump out at me.
 
This might do better if posted in "Composing" forum.

Give example of your song that you think lacks in bass line.
One mistake that people make (myself..) is that there is too much other sound besides bass being played at the same time. Try to drop out all sound except for drums and bass, and see if you're satisfied with how it sounds.
 
bunkaroo

Im the same way can't make a bassilne for **** and i always do it last cause i tjus tworks that way for me. I just wanna know if its any better to start with a bassline and work your way up. Well bassline and drums then work your way up. I have no problem getting a bassline in and putting my frequencies in check its just making a bassline that actually works is the problem.
 
This is how I do it: Melody first. Then "kick" drum pattern and bassline (either a little after the kick or a little before). Then I add the rest of the drums (snares, hihats, claps, etc.). Special FX last (screams, laughs, glass shattering, etc.).
 
Shizo is probably right...

Bass is not just about bass... the midrange frequencies that the bass sound occupies is what defines it's character, so you have to open up a bit of space for it... If you're too used to doing all the rest you might be doing too much of, "all the rest". :D

That said... I used to think all the rest was easy as well, before I started focussing on the bass... Once I mastered the bass I found that the rest was actually lacking a bit more than I thought.

Try working out of the bass perspective for a while and see if it helps. There is no right or wrong way to make music.
 
I personally have better luck if I work out the bass before I've added too many additional elements (I can relate to your frustrations). Usually starting w/ Bass and Drums. Certainly there is exceptions though.

Also, the interplay between your bass sound and the kick drum is important. These two elements often compete for the same frequency space... I agree with Hogus' comment about frequencies too - maybe your focusing too much on low freq content, and not enough on the low-mid range 'sound' of the bass. I've never had much luck w/ bare sine waves - try using two sine waves slightly detuned to add more upper harmonics. Really depends on the kind of music your producing (???).

I've also heard people say that adding a subwoofer to your monitoring setup can really help in writing bass sounds and bass parts.

p.s.
A note about adding chorus to bass - this can definately sound cool (which is the ultimate test - your ears), but use caution if you intend to press the music on vinyl. Chorus can cause stereo phase problems in the low-end that wreck the vinyl cutting and playback process... There's a number of things you can do to avoid this problem, like converting the low-end to mono in mastering... just be aware.
 
If you´re making trance/techno try not to trigger your basslinenotes on you kicknotes. This makes it easier for you to EQ bass and kick together.
 
ducker

use a ducker compressor effect so the bass is sucked down in volume when the kick hits
 
This is an easy way out but holds true...
If you got a simple melody use a complex bassline, and if you got a complex melody use a simple bassline.

Also a standard (rule) would be have the bassline follow the chord changes.
 
Thanks for the replies, i'm gonna play around with some of those ideas. Someone mentioned the bass being in the mid range? i've been putting it in a low range same as or close to the bass kick, maybe that's my problem :)
 
If the problem is that the bassline is not standing out. Try this...

Send the bassline to 2 or 3 channels Left/Right (Middle)
Add a stereo chorus to the Bassline similar to above
EQ the distinct sound of the Bassline and boost just a bit and take the kick and cut the kick a bit with EQ in the same rang as the bassline.
Also try muting everything except the bass and the kick fiddle with the EQ and see how it sounds bring in toms check it again. Just watch the other bass heavy instruments in the mix.
 
Many times my tracks start out with a beat & some synth & sample parts, and then I try to come up with a bass line afterwards. Well, as some have pointed out here, you can really paint yourself into a corner, and no basslines you try seem to fit. What I do at this point is try to take one of the existing lead or melody lines (in MIDI) and output that into a good bass patch instead of the lead sound I was using. A lot of times it sounds really cool, and much better as a bass line than as a lead after you tweek it a little - maybe find the main motif or phrase from this melody, and simplify that as a bass line. Another thing I'll try is to take one of the Arppeg patterns from my synth, and record that in MIDI. Usually, that initially doesn't sound too inspiring, but some simple editing, sometimes as simple as deleting specific notes too give a syncopated feel gives surprising results.
 
If you worl in the manner of DJ (there), be very aware that you kick drum can drown out the attack of the bassline if it is on the downbeat. Your EQ will fix this. I've worked in this manner as well. And if you know your scales the Pentatonic scale will help you make some nice sounding basslines. Being just using anywhere from 1 note with or without octave jumping to 5 notes with or without octave jumping. Start working with simple lines at first and emphasis the groove.
 
First of all basslines are difficult, mine often start out like sh*t.
Here are some good tips that I have culled from TA and magazines:

1. One of the best tips is that typically the bassline muddies the kick around 30 to 40 hz, so try rolling off the bassline at around 30 hz, it gives the kick breathing room.

2. Use a sidechain compressor (the details of how to do this I know less about) on the bassline and kick, when the kick hits, the b'line sinks :)

3. If your synth has unison, use it on the bassline, it will give it extra punch. Be careful of too much stereo width however.

4. Tweak the envelope until either your thumb or index finger falls off.

5. And another esoteric tip I learned is that if give a 3 or 4 decibel boost to your kick at 12 kHz (that's right, you heard correctly), it will allow your kick to be more audible during the busy parts of the mix due to the little sparkle you just added. (I don't know what the Q value for the EQ should be, proabably high). My guess, is, if you wanted your bassline to be audible during the busy parts of the mix, you could apply this tip the b'line as well, but it's just conjecture, not grounded in true sonic knowledge.

Ok, I hope this helps.:cheers:
 
most of the time when you made a beat and at the end you want to add a bassline your trying to play it like the sample or you want to let it sound nice with the sample...now,...Try playing the bassline not like the sample try to play a whole different bassline but let it sound cool with the beat though,...this is a little hard to do but it will sound cool.
And Im not saying playing with the sample aint ever sounding cool.
 
At least for dance music, I try not to have the my bass or the kick drum hit at the same time. Bass lines and Kick drums often occupy the same EQ frequencies, and sometimes they can rob each other of impact or make things sound muddled and undefined. This is easy to accomplish for dance music because you have a kick hit on every quarter note which leaves you lots of space to play with the bassline. For Breakbeat or D&B however, this becomes hard.

If you absolutely have to have a bass and a kick sound at the same time often in a track, I try to define them by EQ. For instance, If both of them posess the bulk of their energy between 30-200Hz, I'll gradually roll the bass off on the kick drum starting at around 100Hz. I'll then put a medium notch in the bassline EQ between 125-200Hz. The goal is not to eliminate these frequencis completely, but to subtly reduce them so you give them sonic space in regards to frequency. I'd rather give them space in time over frequency, but if you're in a pinch, you got to do what you got to do.

Also, you should always copmress your bass if you want to define it. my basslines used to be muddy before I compressed. use a slow attack and a fast release with a ratio between 1:4-1:8 and it will really add punch, snap, and definition to your bass.
 
For a good bassline.

I like to start from the rhythm on up, unless I got a melody in my head. A basic understanding of music and chords are always an asset. Remember that a bassline should be able to be herd distinctly from the rhythm section not competing with a kick or bass drum.

Inspiration:
Alot of inspiration can be found in the music of the 1970's. Ever wonder why we're still hearing disco and funk 25 years or so later in commercials , remixes, and samples? Cause the musicianship and creativity back then was so....groovey baby. I think alot of it started from the bass on up.
Get into the penatonic scale could help.

Cheers!
 
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