808 faq

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CheckYourHead2727

New member
Just a thought but should we have an 808 FAQ and sticky it? I see a lot of 808 questions here and in the mixing forum. It would be a nice resource.
 
Yes I'd love this, and the first thing it should say is what an 808 actually is. I see lots of people saying they want their 808 to sound a certain way and their snare another way, then the next guy could say they want their 808 to sound a certain way, but their kick another... not actually knowing that the darned 808 could be any drum sound really.
 
volunteers to sift through the existing threads to find the gems in the dross??

if you collate it I will sticky it
 
808 FAQ in draft. I will need to add more links to useful posts as they are suggested or I discover them. Edits and suggestions are welcome. Thanks FP!

What is an 808?


808 is the common name for The Roland TR-808 Rhythm Composer, a programmable drum machine. You can read about it on wikipedia or just watch a short video on synthtopia.


Roland TR-808 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


Roland TR808


http://www.synthtopia.com/content/2012/04/27/the-history-of-the-roland-tr-808/


Does Roland still make the Tr-808?


The Roland corporation has replaced the TR-808 with the TR-8 Rhythm performer.


TR-8 :: Products :: Roland


What about an 808 VST?

A lot of producers just use 808 drum samples but there are 808 VST emulators for example:

http://www.kvraudio.com/product/ts_808_by_tactile_sounds

D16 Group Audio Software - Beyond Perfection - Nepheton



I just found an original 808 in my Aunts attic! How do I use this thing?


Here is an 808 manual PDF. Hope it still works!

http://media.rolandus.com/manuals/TR-808_OM.pdf


No, no no what is that kick drum that goes like "boooooom" you know like in pop, rap and R&B?

In colloquial terms any kick drum followed by a sustained bass note ringing at an identifiable musical pitch has been referred to as an "808". Producers have used other combinations of tools to fulfill the role of the sustained 808 kick including but not limited to:

A synthesizer patch consisting of a sine wave (or other waveform filtered to remove the high harmonics) with a sharp pitch bend envelope to provide punch.

a kick drum layered or side chained with a sine wave (or other wave filtered to remove the high harmonics).

So how was the original 808 sound generated?

I will refer you to Sound on Sound's excellent synth secrets series.

First read this:

SYNTH SECRETS

Then read this:

SYNTH SECRETS


Wow that seems complicated! I thought you said I could do this on my trusty generic synth vst?

You can. Check this out:

How to create punchy hip-hop 808 bass | 808 bass | Tech Tuition | MusicRadar


I don't understand anything you just said what does ________ mean can you explain it to me?

For vocabulary questions and defintion questions head over to the Getting Started Forum and read through the stickied posts.

If you want to find something specific use the search function. Then if you are still stuck post your question in that forum.

https://www.futureproducers.com/forums/production-techniques/getting-started/


Where can I get some free 808 kick samples to put in my DAW?

Try searching through the Free Drum Kit section on Future Producers.

https://www.futureproducers.com/for...digging/post-your-free-drum-kits-here-340407/

Also just try googling free 808 samples you will find some.


Ok, I found an 808 kick sample I loaded it in my daw but it sounds wrong with my soul sample/synth melody somehow.

The pitch of your 808 kick may be causing some dissonance when played against your melody or sample. Try adjusting the pitch up or down by a semitone at a time to find something suitable to your ears. Producers often tune 808 kicks to the tonic or tonal center (the pitch upon which all other pitches of a piece of music are hierarchically referenced).


My 808 Kick sample says "808 60hz" what note is that on my keyboard?

For equal-tempered scale, A4 = 440 Hz its about B1. You may need to fine tune your 808 sample to an actual musical note.

If you are curious, here is a chart comparing frequency in hertz to its equivalent musical note.

Frequencies of Musical Notes, A4 = 440 Hz


What about in trap music where 808's change pitch all the time what's going on there?


The 808's are playing the bass line of the song. They are often playing a note of the current chord usually the root note. Also search the forums for trap music theory there are several excellent posts by Bandcoach.


I don't understand What's a root note/tonic/chord/hertz/scale etc.?

Read this and come back when you have looked some stuff up.

https://www.futureproducers.com/for...esign/tutorial-learning-scales-chords-261787/

If you still have questions post them in the music theory forum here at Future Producers.

https://www.futureproducers.com/forums/production-techniques/theory-composing-sound-design/


Ok my 808 is sounding good with my synth melody or sample but when I try to do a 808 kick roll it sounds awful!

Make sure your 808 Sample is set to cut itself. If it is not set to cut itself the tail of one 808 may overlap with the attack of the next creating a muddy sounding mess. Refer to the section on cut groups in the manual of your sampler.


My 808 tails are too long its ruining my groove!

Adjust the Attack Sustain Decay and Release ("ADSR") of your 808 sample in your sampler. If you are not sure what this is read this post:

https://www.futureproducers.com/for...inners-guide-synth-foundation-builder-477281/


My 808 tail is not long enough its ruining my groove!

You will need to set some loop points in your 808 kick sample or pick a different 808 kick sample.

Make sure you set loop points at zero crossing explained here:

https://www.futureproducers.com/for...sound-design/loop-points-454255/#post49682788


For technical instructions in setting loop points refer to the manual for your sampler or do a search in the forums or find some 808 samples with loop point information already embedded (they exist).

I also recommend checking out this link to the direct wave manual even if you do not use fl studio. Read the section entitled, "NOTE:looping instrument samples is an Art"

DirectWave - Sample Tab


My 808 is sounding good with my synth melody or sample and grooving just right but it lacks punch (i can't hear it when i switch on my laptop speakers) what do i do now?

1) Choose a different 808 Sample with the punch your require.

2) Eq the original 808 sample to bring out more punch. Maybe around 200hz. Experiment.

3) Layer the 808 with kick that has the punch your require adjust the samplers ADSR and eq the layered kick sample to taste. Also compare the the phase of the kick to the 808 adjusting the pitch of the layered kick up or down and moving the layered kick forward or backward a few midi ticks may fix any phase issues.

4) Try a version of parallel or new york compression. Take two copies of the 808 compress one to bring out the attack and the other to bring out the sustain and layer them together experimenting with the volume balance between them.

5) Eq other instruments out of the way of 808 give it more space in the frequency spectrum.

6) A frankenstein like combination of the above techniques.

Check out this Article from the Pro Audio Files by Matthew Weiss. There are videos at the bottom of the page.

How to Mix 808's to Hit HARD [Free Samples]

The Pro Audio Files Youtube Channel is also great.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVdU3CMnJ-edC4FeCXK4b3Q


What is compression/Parallel Compression/EQ/Phase etc?

Read through the stickied posts here.

https://www.futureproducers.com/forums/production-techniques/recording-mixing-mastering/

Then do a search on the forums. If you are still stuck post your questions in the getting started forum.

https://www.futureproducers.com/forums/production-techniques/theory-composing-sound-design/


My 808 is sounding good with my synth melody or sample and grooving just right but I can't hear the tail or top end very well (i can't hear it
when i switch on my laptop speakers) what do i do now?

1) choose a different 808 sample.

2) try using saturation, bitcrushing, distortion, saturation and multiband compression or bass enhancers like maxxbass.

Check out this Article from the Pro Audio Files by Matthew Weiss. There are videos at the bottom of the page.

How to Mix 808's to Hit HARD [Free Samples]

The Pro Audio Files Youtube Channel is also great.

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCVdU3CMnJ-edC4FeCXK4b3Q

Good Luck!
 
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This is about to get juicy. I am excited.

Is the Gear Slutz link sacrilegious to FP lol?
 
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Submitted to be added to FAQ

A few more FAQ if needed.

Is there a faster way to tune these 808 Kicks?


Well, it will color your sound, but I guess you could try using the GSnap VST a free VST pitch correction tool.


Check it out here:


GVST - GSnap



I have been using my laptop speakers/tinyspeakers/earbuds to make music but I can't hear the 808 kicks on my laptop/tiny speakers/earbuds. What's up with that?

You have two problems:

1) Your gear.
2) Your room.

The 808 kicks may be sounding outside the audible range of your gear. You need to get some decent gear with a flat frequency response to properly monitor the audio. Once you do you may have to treat your room. Studio Monitors,Headphones and Room Treatments are discussed here:


https://www.futureproducers.com/for...ed-good-speakers-can-i-use-headphones-470827/


https://www.futureproducers.com/for...sound-proofing-versus-sound-treatment-458668/



I've been rocking out to my 808 drum beat for a couple hours but now my ears are ringing is this normal?


Be mindful of your monitoring volume. It is fine and good to check the balance at a higher volume when mixing but do not consistently monitor at a high volume. It will damage your ears. It can also cause tinnitus a persistent ringing in your ears. Check it out.


Noise-Induced Hearing Loss


CDC - Facts and Statistics: Noise - NIOSH Workplace Safety & Health



I heard a song where the 808 pitch glided from note to note. How do I do that?


Try turning on the portamento function in your sampler or synthesizer (if you used a synthesizer to make your 808 kick) and setting the polyphony to one. Refer to the manual of sampler or synthesizer for details.


What if I just want to pitch bend my 808 how do I do that?


You can assign channel pitch to a midi controller or draw in the pitch bend in your DAW. You will have to refer to your DAW manual for details.




How can I get my 808 kicks to sound like ______________ he/she has the most banging 808s!


Reread this FAQ! There is no magic formula. If your 808 sounds close to your goal sound but is not quite there post an audio sample in the Future Producers Sound Design forum and ask for help. It is also helpful to list any postprocessing you have added to the 808 sample. More experienced producers are more likely to give you some advice if you've put forth some effort. It is also likely that the banging 808 kick has less to do with creative sound design than how the track has been mixed and mastered as a whole.


Also read this post for tips on how to get the most/best results when you ask a question:

https://www.futureproducers.com/for...getting-started/read-read-your-manuals-40520/
 
More 808 FAQ

More 808 FAQ if needed. Please edit for content and accuracy. I'm decent at research but this is well beyond my experience. Thanks FP.

I made a track in my DAW in which the 808s are playing a bassline with a wide melodic countour (there are a lot of notes/distance on my keyboard between the topmost and bottom notes) and my 808 kicks sound louder when they are playing higher notes even though the meters in my DAW show the same value for each note! Why?

Human ears are more sensitive to certain frequencies. Scientists have measured the hearing response of the human ear to different frequencies and determined that in order for a person to perceive two frequencies at the same volume there may need to be a significant increase in decibels between the two frequencies. Scientists have created a chart of this response called an equal-loudness contour.

Said another way:
An equal-loudness contour is a measure of sound pressure (dB SPL), over the frequency spectrum, for which a listener perceives a constant loudness when presented with pure steady tones.

Check out this equal loudness countour:

ISO226.png


Equal Loudness curve aka Fletcher-Munson Curve ~ UNSW Physics

So as you can see from the chart the sub 100hz frequencies have to be louder in order to be at the same perceived volume as the mid-range.

also try their free hearing test (biased by the quality of your headphones but it works)

Free hearing test on line – Equal loudness contours and audiometry

I made a track in my DAW in which the 808's are playing the bass line. But when I check the meters in my DAW they are jumping all around. What's up with that?

Conventional mixing wisdom when you are having dynamic problems in the recorded bass part is to level the high peaks out with a compressor. However since you are working in a DAW with 808 samples or 808 synth patches dynamic problems resulting from the performance of the bass part are less likely to be the cause. So before your reach for the compressor do a quick check of the following:

  1. You might have a great fluctuation in the velocity of your midi notes you may need to scale the levels of your midi part so this is less of a problem. (Sometimes all the midi notes should have the same (or close) velocity. It depends on the style of your track. Velocity is closely linked to groove and completely flattening out the velocity might kill the groove of your pattern. )
  2. Did you put a low pass filter on the 808 kick? Depending on the waveform used for the 808 this may allow lower 808 kicks more room for harmonics (if any) to pass though and higher 808 kicks less room for harmonics (if any) to pass through the filter.
    • Try turning on or messing with the keyboard tracking of the cut off point of your filter if this is a synth created 808 kick.
    • If you applied a filter effect to a sample then try automating the filter cut off point.
  3. If you put a low pass or high pass filter on the kick check the resonance level and cut off frequency. The filter may be emphasizing a fundamental or harmonic in the 808 kick (if harmonic is present).
  4. Check the EQ on your 808 bass part. If you boosted or cut something it may effect the dynamics of a busy 808 bass line by emphasizing certain notes.
  5. If certain notes are a problem and you don't like the sound of them being squashed with a compressor then put them on a separate channel in your DAW for mixing and treat them as a separate instrument with different velocity, levels, eq, post processing etc. (This can also be used to creative effect. Think of those higher pitched shawty redd style 808s used in transitions vs the regular 808's in one of his tracks for example.)


How low can you go?

Well according to this Sound on Sound article:

"In practical terms, this means that if you want big-sounding bass that works in a domestic listening environment, it's pretty pointless going much below 40Hz, as most hi-fi systems don't even go down that far. In fact most smaller systems start to roll off at 80Hz or even higher, so you need to make sure there's plenty of energy in the 70 to 90Hz range in order for the bass to work on pretty much all domestic systems."

Getting More Bass In Your Mix

Bandcoach adds,

However, as with all approaches to creating sounds, adding second harmonic distortion to your 808 kick can give rise to some pretty awesome sounds and still allow you to go down to 27.5Hz which is the A at the bottom of the Piano


If I am mixing down a track for a club/music venue/show case/performance how low can I go?

If your track will be played in a performance venue your might want to ask in the DJ Forum here on future producers. A working DJ may be able to give you an idea on the specs of the systems they are using.

dj-forum-mixing-scratching
 
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More 808 FAQ

A Few More 808 FAQ if needed. Please edit for content and accuracy.

I tried to make an 808 kick synth patch in my DAW but the pitch envelope/lfo of my generic synth vst is not sharp enough. I also might want to add some additional pitch bend to an 808 kick (for more thump) I have loaded into the sampler in my DAW but again the pitch envelope is not sharp enough. What do I do now?

Try using an envelope controller and linking it to the channel pitch or internal pitch control of your synth/sampler. Layer the envelope controller so it is triggered along with sample. You can now create any kind of pitch bend curve you want.

In Fl Studio your can use the fruity envelope controller and link it to channel pitch and trigger the envelope controller along with a synth or sampler at the same time with a layer tool. Refer to the manual of your DAW for details.



I have created an 808 synth patch on my generic synth vst but It does not have that initial poppy click that a sample of the real 808 has. Can I synthesize it?

Well you can try adjusting your pitch envelope, or layer the patch with a very short clicky transient sample or clicky synth patch, but you could also just use an 808 sample!



I have pretty decent gear. I have checked my meters and they seem normal and are balanced for all 808 bass notes but one particular sub bass frequency sounds monstrously resonant. Why?

Resonant bass can be caused by standing waves occurring in untreated rooms. The whole room is vibrating at your problem frequency and emphasizing it. You can read about it here:

The problems caused by standing waves in small acoustic spaces

For solutions regarding room treatments I refer you again to the studio design forum.

https://www.futureproducers.com/for...sound-proofing-versus-sound-treatment-458668/
 
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