Professional studio Hardware

R

Ravinder Singh

Guest
Professional studio Hardware

Hey, I was wondering what should a pro studio should include?

I am wondering because I was talking to old head musician who has work in pro studios around US. I told him I wanted to go spend six or seven thousand Buck on buying some equipment and building a studio. Yeah he started laughing at me.
Then he told me people spent $100,000 and around to build pro studios.
I never been to a pro studio, but the old head told me I can come with him when he goes there to record. But he said I will not be able to go in the control room (rules) but I can look through glass. And it killed my excitement.

Anyway I wanted to know what would be a reasonable amount of money spent on a studio to be able to produce Pros or not so Pros but defiantly pro sounding tracks.

I figured that pro studio should include following.
At least
A 64 Ch mixer with surround sound (Monitors , amps etc..)
Fx (bunch maybe)
Dat
Computer with Protools (then one will need to add interfaces to the list. need maybe I am not sure if one needs it if Recording on Dat )
Drum set with Mics and stuff
Guitars
Vocal booth ( mic preamp )
Acustic treatment.
Few workstation (Kurz.. korg .. roland)
Controller keyboard (maybe some workstations might do the job)
And a lot of Samplers or modules (not sure how many would do or what kind. how can one use more then one at a time )

What else guys? I would really like to know what kind of Samplers and modules and if there would be an easier way? (or cheaper but the final tracks coming out must be accepted by any major label)

Setup should be able to cover HIP HOP R&B POP DANC JAZZ and some ROCK
I would appreciate any kind of informational thought.

Thanks
 
100,000... sound LOW, very low...
a few studios i know of out here, the mixers alown cost $400,000 and more...

my partners studio, he has a ssl j9000 in there, and used he said it was $325,000... thats just the console...not all the outboard gear and equipment...and building..sound proofing.. thats well over 200,000 right there

now everything digital... yea you can get away with 100,000..

with 6-7000, you can build a nice projects/semi pro studio...Pro tools isn't a need at all these days, with Nuendo.SX,DP and others doing everything PT can do plus some... its not a need... a pro tools DH system will run yo way more than 6-7000... i worked on a HD3 system last week.. its nice.. i'm not gonna front.. i'm worked on tmd's and mix24's too.. but in my spot, we use Nuendo and Sx...

Pro Tools runs on its own hardware where as Nuendo is a host based system that is dependent on how fast the computer is.(xp2000+)
There was a time when Pro Tools was the choice for digital because computers could not handle the processing loads that digital media demands.
This is no longer the case. Audio cards now have there own software "poured in" that allow extremely low latency monitoring.
Nuendo is fully capable of 24 bit(32bit loat) 196k audio just as PT and uses different plug-ins(VST or Direct X). Both platforms will give professional results when yielded by experienced engineers. Today, its simply a matter of which program
you're more comfortable working on.
 
thanks lil J

can you tell me little bit about Nuendo. and your Nuendo setup.
 
Ravinder Singh said:
thanks lil J

can you tell me little bit about Nuendo. and your Nuendo setup.
Click to expand...

www.nuendo.com
Nuendo is the upgrade to cubase...though it isn't strong when it comes to midi.it can do any and everything a PT studio can, but like i said, nuendo/SX they're host based vs pro tools which needs its hardware(over priced hardware at that)

with 6-7g's.. you can build a nice Nuendo or Sx daw.
if you work with a lot of midi then nuendo isn't for you.. nuendo 2 this fall might be nice with midi.. but only time will tell...if you work with midi, look into using Sx or Sonar, seeing that logic is only for macs now..Sx vs sonar.. you'll pick SX... over all its just stronger software..

i've been using nuendo for the last 2 years..though as of late i find my self using Sx more and more..

my nuendo setup:

Windows XPpro
amd athlon XP1800+(xp2000+ in a few days)
1gig of ram
2 120gig 8mb cache hard drives
Delta 1010 recording interface
CD-rw

software:
Nuendo
SX
Wavelab 4
Reason 2
waves plugins..and many others

email me if you wanna know anything about nuendo or Sx
 
You're kidding, right?

You might be able to build a nice vocal booth and stick a cheap mic and some headphones in it for $7K.

(But you can begin building a nice little home project rig for that kind of money. Check out your sofware choices. No one package is good for everyone. A lot of people like Cakewalk's Sonar and a lot of people like Cubase (their newest pkg is Cubase SX -- and there's more... here's a list of Windows audio software: Hit Squad (Shareware Music Machine).

Here are some links where you can find basic recording ino:

http://homerecording.about.com/
Home Recording at About.com - a great starting place for beginners

http://www.pcrecording.com/
It's not the prettiest site on the web but it packs a lot of info and user reviews and opinons

http://www.sospubs.co.uk/
Sound On Sound... one of the UK's more popular recording mags

http://www.emusician.com/
Electronic Musician Magazine has evolved into one of the best magazines devoted to electronic music, home recording, and project studios

http://www.musictheory.net/
Ricci Adams' brilliant little music theory tutorials pack a lot of information in bite-sized packages

http://www.themix.net/
central links for a family of high tech websites, including intermusic.com

https://www.futureproducers.com/
a grassroots forum for young producers, mixers, djs, and electronic musicians

http://www.hitsquad.com/smm/
Audio-Recording Book Recommendations (Shareware Music Machine)

http://www.crmav.com/
Composing recording mastering

http://www.guitarsite.com/
Home of Guitar News Weekly & the 2000 Guitars Database

http://www.dma.org/~millersg/proaudio.html
Steve's Pro Audio and Recording Page

http://alive.singnet.com.sg/
ALive! - Sound Blaster Live Resource Site

http://www.asisphonics.net/makingarecord.php
AsisphonicsNet Scratch Music Culture

http://www.audioamigo.com/audio.html
Audio Home Recording Studio and Midi Music Sites

http://www.soundblaster.com/goodies/soundfontbanks/
Soundblaster.com -- Goodies -- SoundFont banks

http://www.thesoundsite.net/
The Sound Site - sound fonts, MIDI etc

http://www.phys.tue.nl/people/etimmerman/RecordingFAQ.html
Recording FAQ


Hope they help.
 
Last edited:
theblue1 said:
You're kidding, right?

You might be able to build a nice vocal booth and stick a cheap mic and some headphones in it for $7K.

(But you can begin building a nice little home project rig for that kind of money. Check out your sofware choices. No one package is good for everyone. A lot of people like Cakewalk's Sonar and a lot of people like Cubase (their newest pkg is Cubase SX -- and there's more... .
Click to expand...

depending on how much the ppl charge.. no i'm not kidding.. i know plenty of pro studio builders that don't charge much...

cheap mic and a vocal booth..lol come on now

i'm thinking about something like this:

Athlon XP2000 daw w/1gig of ddr
SX with waves plugins or UAD-1 dsp card
24-32ch mixer(
studio desk with rack(or a custom one cheaper..
Blue sky monitors
delta,rme,motu... which ever sound card he wants to go with
Neumann m147,At4060,SP T3 or another great vocal mic
good mic pre

then building...yes the equipment takes it to about 6000-7000. the most expensive process is sound proofing VS sound isolation. don't think acoustic pannels and stuff like that SOUND PROOF.. they don't

depending on how large the vocal booth and control room are...your gonna spend a min. of..i'll go low and say 2500-3000 if you need to build live rooms and sh#t like that.. yea then the building process will take longer and cost more.. mine is about 6x6(vocal booth) and my control room isn't huge. right now it isn't 100% soundproof but i'm in the basement of a 6500SQ.ft house so you don't hear the music all through the house. my control room will be sound proofed my december and a subfloor is getting built also..though i might be moving the studio and going all out

one advantage i have is one of my good frineds works for a company out here that builds studios and he knows his stuff... he's helping me do all my stuff along with 1 of my cousins....thats why my price is on the low end...
his studio.. he built everything...regularly it would have cost at least 250,000 just to build his studio.. but thats b/c of labor and sh#t..he didn't even spend 60,000 building his studio, and i helped build the vocal booth, which came out quite well.his booth is about 8x8 with a Akg c12vr... his studio looks great and sounds great,100% sound proofed, and he stays busy...

producing rap/hip hop.. you don't need live rooms and sh#t like that. but for jazz and rock you will... so think about that. call around were you live for studio builders..
 
Using mostly the gear list you cite -- let's do some math:

You build the Athlon yourself, using a nice Soyo Dragon board... the processor and board you get a deal on, say $220. The gig of DDR ram is gonna set you back close to another $200 -- let's round the the running total to $400. You buy a cheap case but you still need a thermo-controlled 'quiet' fan, so the box and PS run you another $80-$100. You'll need at least an 80 gig 7200 rpm drive. That's $150 or so. You'll need some kinda CDr and a floppy... that's at least another $80. You're lucky that CRT monitors are cheap... if heat's not a problem you can get a 19" for about $150 (otherwise you're gonna have to cut the heat by going with an LCD for a minimum of $400 or so -- and don't discount the heat problem... my project studio is in a 11 x 11 room and even with all the tube gear off and a minimum of gear powered up the heat builds up so much that my 700 watt a/c can barely keep up). Where were we...ah yeah, sound interface. The MOTUs start around $600-$700, but if you go with a 2 in 8 out on an in-box card you can get the cost down to $300-400.

A 2.1 Blue Sky monitor setup (list $1595) will set you back at least $1300, I'm thinking. (5.1 setup will cost over thee grand.) A 24-4 channel mixer from, say, Mackie will set you back around $1200-1300 ($1600 list)... the 8 bus version is nice but way out of budget for this.

A Neumann M147 (list $2K) will probably cost at least $1500 or so. A mic pre to match the Neumann mic in quality would probably set you back between one and two grand -- but I suspect we're running out of money and we haven't even bought cables -- let's go with a nice 'affordable' tube pre for $400. (You can always get a nice Avalon when the big bucks start flowing in.)

Cables -- you luck out, here, since you're only buying one mic and pre... still, you'll need to patch any outboard synths and fx. Decent 6' cables with 1/4" connectors will probably cost you $8-$16, lo-z cables with xlr will probably cost 10-20 bucks or more depending on quality. Of course, you can spend as much as a $100 a cable or more if you buy into the 'monster'-style cable thing. And you'll need cables to run to your monitors. Let's say about a $100 total for cheapo cables.

Since you have some construction pals, you figure you can get by on solo booth and CR construction for 2500-3000, as you say. (Man... a 6500 sq foot house -- that's a flippin' mansion. Lucky you!)

Let's see, what else, Cubase SX (list $799) will cost you $580 at Musician's Friend. Of course, you'll need mastering software and various utilities -- but you'll have to get that later, too, I suspect.

Unless I've made a computational error I end up with a range of $9,330 - $12,150. (Where I cited a price range I added the smaller price to the low total and the higher price to the high total.) Keep in mind that that's not counting sales tax, shipping, etc.It's not counting any of the many other things you need to build a studio than that above (and believe me -- there's plenty. For instance, I probably spent close to $400 on cables alone for my very small studio -- and those were cheap cables.)
 
Last edited:
the computer would only run 579(600 with shipping) thats with a nice case,quiet fans, huge heatsink and quiet fan for the cpu, 100gig drive, cd-rw, 56x cd rom, floppy etc.. not a barebone..then monitor 150

my control room, and booth stay about 70 degrees when i have the ac on this floor.

2in/8out.. i wish i could work like that.. 8in/8out for me..delta 1010 which is only 599.. with a little time i can get someone one for 350.. thats all i paid...

blue skys, yea they're 1350...

M147, i get one for 1100.. i'm about to get 1, though i have to compare it to the at4060 first. i hear some ppl say the 4060 over the m147 and other say the other way around.. so i have to do the test for myself.

mixer...he never said new or used.. i love ebay these days...the new console i'm about to order is a Tascam m3700...its much cleaner than the 32.8mackie, and on ebay they pop up around 1600.. i'm getting mine from a guy not on ebay from 1500 with the stand for it. its about 200pounds:bigeyes:

but here's a good deal i came across, a 24.8 for 1300
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=906798447

pre for the m147...he can't spend 2k for a SPL or Avalon.. but i'm thinking something along the lines of M-audio tampa($600), Joemeek Vc1Qcs($600) or DBX 376($425) or something on those lines.

so were looking at over 8212.. so for 7000.. your gonna have to drop a little bit in quality..maybe a Studio projects mic.. a T3 which is 600 and its a very clean mic..and if blue skys are to much..drop a little bit...get KRK V8's or something on those lines

cabels i spent about 400-500 in wires over here..i had 1 wire that was $30.. the snakes didn't cost that much but i tried to get the best quality wire.

the house its my mom and dad's..i'm not rich...trust me

mastering softare...Just use SX trust me..i usually master with wavelab 4, but i've been using Sx for everything as of late.all you need is sx with waves plugins or a uad-1 dsp card..

but your right over 9,000...so we have to cut back on some things to drop the price...

i gotta go.. i have a session to run...
 
That all sounds pretty okay to me except that I'd never buy any Tascam gear again. That's just me. But I had a mostly Tascam setup in the 80s (3 4-track 1/4" machines and an 8 tr 1/2" machine that was a freaking disaster) and learned on Tascam gear (a 16 track 1" with that gawdawful DBX NR [and yes -- I did know how to work with DBX and it's a stupid system anyway) -- and I really, really developed a bad taste in my mouth about the company. In the past they just didn't support their gear. It was HELL getting parts -- and I always needed parts because the crap was always breaking down.

But, hey that was a long time ago and things and companies change. I guess.

I'd like to take a look at Cubase SX... I tried to suss it out on their website but they're obviously still figuring out the online thing (that's what I've thought every time I've gone to the steinberg site for five years). It looked like it had some good features though.

When I'd used Cubase in the past, I'd been turned off by convenience issues (track/clip/file management and so on) but folks say they've slicked that up. I was thinking about switching a few years back when it became clear my ADATs (which had sunk to the role of 8 in 8 out conversion when I moved to HD recording in '96) were fading away (they don't even light up anymore... I'm gonna have to break down and figure out what to do with 'em... but they aren't worth much [original 16 bit models]).

At the time, I looked into Cubase, briefly into Logic -- and gave some consideration to the Mac (it was pre-OS X and I was amazed at how far behind Windows the OS's multimedia support was -- not to say that the apps were behind... well, except in some ways they were -- on Win there was ACID, generic DIrectX plug-ins, Sound Forge, etc. But now there's finally a multi-tracker that runs in OS X (Apple's new purchase Logic) and the rest should be coming online soon. But I'm not switching (for now) no matter how much MS ticks me off in my dayjob as a database developer (and they do, they do -- and that wouldn't change since there's virtually no business market whatsoever for Macs).

And I've been very happy with Sonar. (Although it's taken a while for me to get used to doing more stuff in the computer -- since I'd been mixing in the analog world using the 8 outs as subs to hit my racks of outboard FX and compressors and I'm now using a 2/2 Echo Mia which sounds sweet but doesn't have the flex that an 8/8 (or even 2/8) would have. (I was broke when I bought it, what can I say. But then within 6 months they dropped the price on their 2/8 to just half again as much as the MIA... grrrr... oh well. It's just a stopgap.)

PS... where can you get that computer for $600?!? I couldn't build it for that! (And I even forgot the video card in my list above! ) Maybe I should have you order one for me. (Just kidding -- I'm a stickler about building my own boxes.)
 
Last edited:
Native based systems are great, and have a lot of advantages over pro tools, BUT I have yet to see a professional studio equipped with any other system than pro tools. Not that it's really that much better, but it's the standard. So I'd say if you're going to be sending projects out to other studios and so forth, you should get a pro tools setup (of course, that will take all your cash right there). If you're going to go start to finish in house, get a good host-based system like Digital performer.

I should also add how important the space is. People always think of gear when they think of studios, but space is critical. I'd rather have $2000 of gear in a nice place than $6000 worth in my spare bedroom. Case in point: today my friend and I were trying to record some vocals for his demo. He's got a nice mic (Rode nt1), nice pre (dbx), decent compressor (behrenger), going right into a good m-audio converter. Ok, not pro gear, but decent. But we couldn't get a good vocal sound because the room reflections were killing the tone of his voice. It sounded like he was in a tin can. A nice tracking room would solve this problem.

Once you have the room (at least two: a tracking and a control), everything else is a matter of preference to some degree.

That's my 2cents
Peace,
LC
 
theblue1 said:
PS... where can you get that computer for $600?!? I couldn't build it for that! (And I even forgot the video card in my list above! ) Maybe I should have you order one for me. (Just kidding -- I'm a stickler about building my own boxes.)
Click to expand...
there is one company that sells their pc's that cheap.. let me go through these business cards and i'll tell you in the morning.. i'll build you that same pc for 650..my dad owns a computer company, so products aren't a problem.. i can get you xp2100 cpus for no more that $165 maybe cheaper..i have to ask my dad...

the tascam m3500 and m3700 are great quite console.. the sound they offer.. to me is great... i'm not saying they compare to the ssl and neve consoles i've been behind..but they aren't cheap mixer.. nor are they made for home studios.. they are pr mixer..i don't know why they're so cheap these days though... they retailed like 10,000
 
found the fax...

Aluminum Case with Side Glass
Neon light inside case &
ATX 420watt power supply
Your choice of color!
AMD Athlon XP 2000+ processor
Cooler Master Heatsink Fan
ASUS A7S333 Socket A Motherboard - more info
256MB PC2700 DDR Ram
80GB ATA 7200rpm Hard Drive
52x CD-Rom Drive
3.5" Floppy Drive
Geforce4 MX440 64MB Graphics With TV Out
32bit onboard Sound
10/100 Ethernet (Lan) Card
DSL or Cable modem ready
(2) Extra Case Cooling Fans
1 Year Parts & Labor Warranty

Price:589 plus 59 shipping
to upgrade the cpu to a xp2100-xp2600 its $39-199

go to http://myjackrabbit.com the pc is on the front page...

they also sell computers on ebay with better prices..
the pc's on ebay also have cd-rw's and a few extra things .the website pc's don't...
my partner got his(xp2400) for 699 plus shipping.. this system right here
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2054194693

bottom line.. that would be a very nice daw.. my new daw..is gonna be stupid to have but what the hell....Dual 2.4gig xeon...almost a 5gig pc...
 
LC, you're points are right on. (Although as a former Behringer-victim [1 compressor and 2 parametric EQs] I'd quarrel w/ calling their stuff decent.)

Pro Tools, for better or worse, has waged a very effective PR campaign aimed at convincing the great unwashed masses of studio consumer musicians that they need Pro Tools (except, of course, for the hoards who are equally convinced that analog is the only way to go -- even to the point of settling for 16 track 1" DBX NR crap).

Not to slag PT at all, the hardware based systems are, indeed, very powerful in many ways, and, though they are very expensive compared to what most of us do (a PT hardware system will probably set you back the better part of 20 thousand bux US not counting mixers, mics, cables, yadda yadda). And they are a lingua franca in the digital studio world at this point, having supplanted the older and less flexible and sonically inferior first generation systems.

If I was building a true pro studio (think $50k budget on up) I wouldn't think twice -- I'd get a Pro Tools HD (that's hi def, not hard drive ;) ) system.

And you're absolutely right about the room, too! A good room or rooms is really an asset.

However, in the case you cited, you could go a long way by either building a bounce absorber 'iso booth' -- just some blankets or other relatively non-reflective material you could drape (boom mic-stands work great as a frame) around your vocalist. An alternative is to place one or more "egg crate" foam mattress pads on reflective walls in the recording area... I used to do that with my voice over clients and vocalists. You can even drive a few small finishing nails into your wall high up and hang the foam pads from them on an as-needed basis.
 
Lil J

I hate to talk like this but: DUDE -- that's awsome!

Thank you so much for pointing me to that! (But, see -- only a quarter meg of DDR -- still, a great price for sure!)

That's seriously brilliant.

About the Tascam boards... well, we're gonna have to go our own paths on that one. There's ex-girlfriends I'd sooner get in bed with. (Hmmm... that may not be the best analogy. :D ) But anyway, I'll stick with my Mackie 24-4 for now. And even it's kinda overkill for what I've been doing lately. (I stopped taking clients because I never worked on my own music any more. I still don't but at least I don't have to listen to bad alt rock or dunn my clients for money. Now I just grind away on stinky database projects and the occasional website. ;) )
 
Lil J

I went to their site. I dig it.

Of course, by the time I added a few items like an OS ( ;) ) and a CD-r, extra RAM (upped to 1 G), , USB 2.0, and an upgrade to the WD 80 G w/ 8 MB buffer the price was a little over a thousand -- but that's still a great deal it seems to me. (Although I was tempted to switch up to the Soyo Dragon for another 109 US$... )

But it's all on paper... er, virtual paper, anyhow, right now. I'm going to have to wait until I resolve some economic stuff (I'm thinking about selling my house) before I take a plunge.

But I'm definitely impressed. :)

Thanks for the heads up!
 
Thanks Blue & Lil J
Right now I’m leaning more in direction of Blues idea.
For past week a have made at least 4 trips to the guitar center. I was looking in Mackie 32X8. The cost is a little too much. But Mackie 24X8 would be my choice. thanks lil.

I was reading august EQ 2002 and they have real nice “..THE ULTIMATE…PC” set up for $1995 from East Coast Music Mall. It is really nice
2 –2000 ADM
2- 512 DDR ECC
40 gig For OS
80 gig Dat
and more..

I was wondering if this set up would be nice or “PRO”
The Nuendo 96/52 Card it hase “Simultaneous operation of ADAT inputs, SPDIF input, and all outputs”Sweetwater $549.99
24/96 Audio Card with Nuendo and nice quite and fast PC described above.
And a Mackie 24X8 or 32X8 (will I be able to send and Edit all the channels from mixers directly to the PC software?)
What would I be missing in there?
This should be able to take care of recording area?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top