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Thread: Youtube sample detection - end of sampling?

  1. #11
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    All that trouble to cheat math?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamster View Post
    Thats why you're layering and chopping so that the algorithm doesn't make it.
    Too much trouble if you ask me. It would better to learn the algorithm that made the song in the first place. Then you could find the authentic sound behind the original songs. Change the instruments, add or take away musicals notes, this situation would be ideal, I believe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerJC View Post
    Too much trouble if you ask me. It would better to learn the algorithm that made the song in the first place. Then you could find the authentic sound behind the original songs. Change the instruments, add or take away musicals notes, this situation would be ideal, I believe.
    No it would be easier to learn to play and stop stealing other peoples performances!
    But here we are!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamster View Post
    No it would be easier to learn to play and stop stealing other peoples performances!
    But here we are!
    It's not stealing if you have permission to use the sample. Just get it cleared; don't be a coward by being too scared to ask for permission to use specific clips from other people's music. Also, my statement was to learn the algorithms that make a song. In other words, learn the fundamentals of making music. Producers should be humble enough to realize that music lessons help regardless of your experience level. Especially if you're new at this, having mentors to teach you about making music benefits trimideously. Or, you could be a know it all with no training. Chance is that your music will suck though.
    Last edited by ProducerJC; 09-10-2019 at 05:20 AM. Reason: I have more to add.

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    Loving this thread, I think this is a very interesting discussion

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    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerJC View Post
    It's not stealing if you have permission to use the sample. Just get it cleared; don't be a coward by being too scared to ask for permission to use specific clips from other people's music. Also, my statement was to learn the algorithms that make a song. In other words, learn the fundamentals of making music. Producers should be humble enough to realize that music lessons help regardless of your experience level. Especially if you're new at this, having mentors to teach you about making music benefits trimideously. Or, you could be a know it all with no training. Chance is that your music will suck though.
    Yep already said that!
    Some Artists will be fine about you using a sample of their performance.
    Others will not be quite so friendly about it.
    Having said that even if you play something youself if you've nicked it you may well upset someone.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamster View Post
    There is! you basically cannot steal anybodies performance without their permisson.
    Some artist don't care and others will sue you for every penny.
    As for how much you can get away with the answer is not much.
    Years ago MARRS "Pump up the Volume" were sued by stock Aitkin and Waterman for about 2seconds of chopped vocal from the intro of "Roadblock" and can't remember who it was now but they were sued by David Bowies Drummer because they sampled the snare hit from "Lets Dance" Suprizingly Utah Saints weren't sued by Kate Bush for their "Cloudbusting" Sample which is suprizing because Kate Bush is very protective about her music.
    In short release sampled material at your own risk!
    This is it in a nutshell. ^^^^ It has never been any different. In hip-hop, at least since the Biz Markie case...

    The problem with "not being scared and approaching the original artist," is that song rights and publishing is complicated (original artists not owning all of the material, publishing companies and record companies and songwriters and producers all wanting a piece due to multiple writers on any given number, performance rights vs. publishing rights vs. master rights; etc., etc., etc.). If you are sampling a piece of music and intend to clear it legally for release in a new track, at minimum, you need at least two permissions-- publishing/copyright and master right. Add in multiple business entities involved, and it can get messy.

    Sample if you must, but get clearance for releases, or at least a contract with the artist and/or label indemnifying you from suit (put the onus on the label/artist/production company to get clearances). Better yet, create your own original music, as others have pointed out.

    GJ
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  8. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by ProducerJC View Post
    It's not stealing if you have permission to use the sample. Just get it cleared; don't be a coward by being too scared to ask for permission to use specific clips from other people's music. Also, my statement was to learn the algorithms that make a song. In other words, learn the fundamentals of making music. Producers should be humble enough to realize that music lessons help regardless of your experience level. Especially if you're new at this, having mentors to teach you about making music benefits trimideously. Or, you could be a know it all with no training. Chance is that your music will suck though.
    You don't want Al Gore Rythm You need to model it more on "Clinton" He wasn't bad on Sax and was always playing "AHH Monika"

    I think you're a little confused over What an Algorithm is?
    It is a mathermatical question that its complexity effects the conclusion.
    What you are talking about is methodology or in laymans terms "How to do it!
    You don't use algorithms to create music. Unless you have a Dx7 or a kurzwiel!
    In that case it is a mathermatical manipulation of a digital wave each time the signal is transformed using a particular set of
    sums ( algorithm) the sound is effected in a predicable way.
    The plan was that you can make the sound you want but the reality is seldom the the case!

    If Youtube are using an algorithm to detect copywrite protected material it depends on how it actually detects it?
    The most obvious way would be to scan coywritten pieces of material using an alogorithm that will apply some sort of digital code to that material and file it into a data base.
    So that instead of sound there is effectively a "Numerical String" or several for every song on the database.
    This could be something like the result of a FFT ( Fast Fourier transform) for example
    That is basically turning sound into 1s and 0s (in reality it will more likely be hexadecimal values). in a particulat order that when converted back represents that material.
    The best way to describe an FFT is if a sample is a 2d snapshop an FFT is a 3D Model
    If they then scan everything that is uploaded against the data base to see if any of the digital code matches.
    It will see how much of the string matches the criteria might be say 16 character sequence either forward or reversed
    So your 2 second break beat gives a code of 3fc245d43ffe321 and it finds 123eff34d542cf3 on the data base it will assume you're up to no good it will reverse your clip convert it and compare and if it matches they will ban it.

    This isn't too dissimilar to how a duplicate file finder for your computer works.
    If you get one of those change the name of the file the resolution and cut a bit off the end the software will still flag it as a duplicate it is actally digitally analyzing the data within the file. The way it does it is its Algorithm

    Computers are very good at doing this and the Info from something like an FFT will
    be number crunched like a mathermatical problem it could do it pretty quickly.
    The other way of course could be AI there are already apps where you play music and it will detect it and identify the music for you. A more advanced version able to detect smaller samples would work pretty well.

  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lamster View Post
    You don't want Al Gore Rythm You need to model it more on "Clinton" He wasn't bad on Sax and was always playing "AHH Monika"

    I think you're a little confused over What an Algorithm is?
    It is a mathermatical question that its complexity effects the conclusion.
    What you are talking about is methodology or in laymans terms "How to do it!
    You don't use algorithms to create music. Unless you have a Dx7 or a kurzwiel!
    In that case it is a mathermatical manipulation of a digital wave each time the signal is transformed using a particular set of
    sums ( algorithm) the sound is effected in a predicable way.
    The plan was that you can make the sound you want but the reality is seldom the the case!

    If Youtube are using an algorithm to detect copywrite protected material it depends on how it actually detects it?
    The most obvious way would be to scan coywritten pieces of material using an alogorithm that will apply some sort of digital code to that material and file it into a data base.
    So that instead of sound there is effectively a "Numerical String" or several for every song on the database.
    This could be something like the result of a FFT ( Fast Fourier transform) for example
    That is basically turning sound into 1s and 0s (in reality it will more likely be hexadecimal values). in a particulat order that when converted back represents that material.
    The best way to describe an FFT is if a sample is a 2d snapshop an FFT is a 3D Model
    If they then scan everything that is uploaded against the data base to see if any of the digital code matches.
    It will see how much of the string matches the criteria might be say 16 character sequence either forward or reversed
    So your 2 second break beat gives a code of 3fc245d43ffe321 and it finds 123eff34d542cf3 on the data base it will assume you're up to no good it will reverse your clip convert it and compare and if it matches they will ban it.

    This isn't too dissimilar to how a duplicate file finder for your computer works.
    If you get one of those change the name of the file the resolution and cut a bit off the end the software will still flag it as a duplicate it is actally digitally analyzing the data within the file. The way it does it is its Algorithm

    Computers are very good at doing this and the Info from something like an FFT will
    be number crunched like a mathermatical problem it could do it pretty quickly.
    The other way of course could be AI there are already apps where you play music and it will detect it and identify the music for you. A more advanced version able to detect smaller samples would work pretty well.

    I think he was just using poetic license to make a point. An analogy. An “analorithm,” if you will. Even if you won’t, it was just figurative language. Regarding Clinton/Gore, I have no idea what you’re on-about, mate...


    GJ
    Gregg Juke
    Nocturnal Productions
    The Sonic Vault Recording Studio
    Drum! Magazine Contributor






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  11. #19
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    Ah! I get it now— “AL-GORE-RHYTHM!” Jocularity in a humoresque vein. Indeed sir...



    GJ
    Gregg Juke
    Nocturnal Productions
    The Sonic Vault Recording Studio
    Drum! Magazine Contributor






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  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by rhythmgj View Post
    Ah! I get it now— “AL-GORE-RHYTHM!” Jocularity in a humoresque vein. Indeed sir...



    GJ
    Thanks, if you look up Monica Lewinski you'll get the rest of the joke!

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