Why do you people praise these type of producers?

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DrizzyWadeSt

New member
Why do you people glorify music producers such as Alchemist, Kanye, Madlib, 9th Wonder, RZA, J Dilla and call them musical geniuses when all they do is take other peoples work and chop them up? They don't even add anything! Tell me what is musical about chopping up other peoples work and not even knowing how to play a piano or drums? These guys don't even add their own work to it! Untalented people. That's why hip hop is dying because you guys let these untalented bastards get called musical geniuses. I used to think that these guys were great because I thought they actually PLAYED the instruments and the music they recorded but nooo they take it from OTHER people and then they call themselves chopping it... just terrible and uncreative. you guys either dumb or bandwaggoning
 
Been a while since one of these showed up lol. Sampling is not as hard as playing a real instrument past beginner level but hey, it's still pretty difficult. Sound design is also a great way to add things to samples, and sometimes it's fun to turn samples into completely different sounds altogether. So, what is the problem? Synthesizers can be played with pianos and drumpads can be used to drum.

Sampling a drum kit, and using the padkontrol as the drum kit is one example. Or using vsts with drums in them too :)
I like dilla and kanye's style :O Chopping for the sake of chopping is usually reserved for sound designing.
I would like to see where all of this is coming from, and would like to learn from you in a battle of some sorts.
Hm...Yes. If I need to learn more about the culture I must find these answers.

I can not fully understand the purpose of hiphop or music in general, and I must learn the depths of it to understand why I feel some type of way about this particular culture. It is different from the tribal stuff I'm accustomed too.
 
But why does it matter if they don't play the instruments? Does Kanye or Dill add their own instruments to it or they just leave it as it is? thats so uncreative... its literally just rearranging a song
 
Sampling can be done in any way possible, chopping just because Isseriously only beneficial for sound design. Adding stuff afterwardsis natural :/

The best way to understand something is to simply do whatever it is you do not understand to come up with your own opinion on the matter.
 
Lol ok. I have done both, and made my own samples, and chopped them up too.
None of it is hard. Hip hop, and electronic music in general is pretty easy unless your going crazy with the sequencing, and time sigs.
Hip hop is about feel, and being able to mold something into something else, and then something else again.
It's musically easy, but getting that feel, and perfect groove, sound, and overall vibe is a very definite skill, and an art all of it's own.

I'll take that criticism from a seasoned musician who does not understand hip hop. But another electronic musician who also relies on sequencing, well nope. I can't read music, but I can sound like a pretty good piano player in a sequencer. You know why, because rather we like it or not the sequencer is a crutch.
Now if you are an excellent piano player than I excuse you for not understanding sample based music.
But if your another electronic musician who like myself uses the sequencer as a crutch for my lack of real playing skills then you need to realize your no better, or no more skilled than a samplist as a musician.
I can get by saying that because I do both styles, and know full well what it takes to do both, and even mix both syles.
BTW I've been making beats since 1989-90. In those 25 years I've tried it all, and I'll admit I never learned how to properly play a single instrument, aside from maybe being a below average drummer.
I've picked up guitars, and played horrible sounds, and despite this I could make decent sounding beats that utilized my horrible playing due to chopping, and arranging in a sequencer.......Yep your sequencer is a crutch, and many seasoned musicians think we all stink, lol.
 
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DrizzyWadeSt said:
But why does it matter if they don't play the instruments? Does Kanye or Dill add their own instruments to it or they just leave it as it is? thats so uncreative... its literally just rearranging a song
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So rearranging sample chops is not creative? That's like saying that certain composer is not creative because he is playing the chords that were already used in another song. And even if these guys who sample were adding their own instruments, the whole track is still being based on sample, so i don't see why would you give them a pass if they added instruments to it. Who cares if the track is hot.

You seem like you're just trolling lol, but here are some great examples of sampling...

9th Wonder - Memories

^^He basically chopped up that intro and created a masterpiece.

Just Blaze - Breathe

Sample: Supertramp - Crime Of The Century

^^Listen to both songs, if you don't find what Just Blaze did with this sample you are just hating. He did an amazing job, he even recorded the "breathe" part himself, since you wonder if these producers are adding their own elements to samples.
 
DrizzyWadeSt said:
Why do you people glorify music producers such as Alchemist, Kanye, Madlib, 9th Wonder, RZA, J Dilla and call them musical geniuses when all they do is take other peoples work and chop them up? They don't even add anything! Tell me what is musical about chopping up other peoples work and not even knowing how to play a piano or drums? These guys don't even add their own work to it! Untalented people. That's why hip hop is dying because you guys let these untalented bastards get called musical geniuses. I used to think that these guys were great because I thought they actually PLAYED the instruments and the music they recorded but nooo they take it from OTHER people and then they call themselves chopping it... just terrible and uncreative. you guys either dumb or bandwaggoning
Click to expand...

i used to think the same way until i got into sampling myself... true their music is based on other people's music which isn't fair / makes no sense.. but creating something brand new and glorious from the original sample is a talent all in itself... you gotta respect them for taking this .. flipping it and making it into that... that's why i respect them.. and it took learning to sample myself to realize that.. maybe you should too
 
You can always 1up the next person lol. I can go on to say you're not creative unless your playing your drums and other instruments live.

I do both and always have done one or the other...Now its easier to combine playing and sampling if needed.

For me its the challenge that I like. You can use a sample in so many different ways. For lots of casual listeners they're not going oh this beat sucks because its a sample...people who make beats are the ones you hear more of that from. For some they actually like that a song they remember has been reworked...Some hate it too.
 
i was about post a long reply trying to convince you of blah blah blah. just watch this

use that song to make this...


now tell me it takes no skill...
 
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DrizzyWadeSt said:
Why do you people glorify music producers such as Alchemist, Kanye, Madlib, 9th Wonder, RZA, J Dilla and call them musical geniuses when all they do is take other peoples work and chop them up? They don't even add anything! Tell me what is musical about chopping up other peoples work and not even knowing how to play a piano or drums? These guys don't even add their own work to it! Untalented people. That's why hip hop is dying because you guys let these untalented bastards get called musical geniuses. I used to think that these guys were great because I thought they actually PLAYED the instruments and the music they recorded but nooo they take it from OTHER people and then they call themselves chopping it... just terrible and uncreative. you guys either dumb or bandwaggoning
Click to expand...
I never praise them or guys who make stuff from scratch for the most part. Why? Because all of this shyt is simple to me. I can do it all. I respect the good records done by anyone, but why "praise" anyone for doing the same shyt you do day in and out? So my question to counter your point is, if you've never used a sampler/drum sequencer, why knock these guys while praising someone like Scott Storch or B.M. Cox, or even Max Martin who uses the same tools you possess and make stuff that falls in the range of your music UNLESS you're not talented enough to keep up with them, because a guy like Dilla could.

Respect and "praise" are 2 different things. The only person any of us should "praise" is god(if you believe such things), because he's giving life, and can't none of us do that shyt. Everything else is some guy at best doing something you CAN learn and do better. But until you can, STFU and get back to practice. :cheers:
 
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Look gang its like this:

Anyone can tell a joke and make their friends laugh.

Professional comedians go up in front of a crowd of strangers and make them laugh for over 45 minutes.

Anyone can loop up a sample and put a drum break under it. Your friends are impressed!

Professional beatmakers use old records, samplers and synthesizers and make a crowd of people dance for over 45 minutes.

See the analogy? The problem you have is how you define skill and what you place value on based upon years of historical conditioning and choice of language that came before you. Not to say professional beatmakers don't have respect for traditional music theory instrumental fluency. They do! They have a sample flipping contest hear at Future Producers see you there!
 
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
I never praise them or guys who make stuff from scratch for the most part. Why? Because all of this shyt is simple to me. I can do it all. I respect the good records done by anyone, but why "praise" anyone for doing the same shyt you do day in and out? So my question to counter your point is, if you've never used a sampler/drum sequencer, why knock these guys while praising someone like Scott Storch or B.M. Cox, or even Max Martin who uses the same tools you possess and make stuff that falls in the range of your music UNLESS you're not talented enough to keep up with them, because a guy like Dilla could.

Respect and "praise" are 2 different things. The only person any of us should "praise" is god(if you believe such things), because he's giving life, and can't none of us do that shyt. Everything else is some guy at best doing something you CAN learn and do better. But until you can, STFU and get back to practice. :cheers:
Click to expand...

Pretty well summed up!
 
you can only use the tools you have at your disposal. weren't many pianos tossed around my spot unless you were at church.
 
I've made music for some time. Played in bands, made dance music so on and so forth. I recently got into sampling, because I've always been fascinated by turntablism and sampling. I've been bashed by people who say "Oh you can't make real music, you have to steal." Most of the songs you hear now days that are sampled, you can't even tell that they are sampled.
 
I know I'll be in the minority with the OP here, but sampling to me is just "stumble upon" music. You hit your sample chops until something sounds cool. There is no strategy behind it.
 
Depends lots of songs a person could know exactly how you want to do it. You have to learn with time and experience though. I know what you mean when you say stumble upon...though its no different than someone who lacks in theory sliding notes up and down on the piano roll until you say yeah that sounds good.

Its good to know both. Even if you are against sampling you can still learn audio manipulation on a faster scale.
 
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