Your shit will never sound like the pros. UNLESS YOU ARE A PRO

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rhythmgj said:
This discussion should end here, soon... or it's likely it will be ended ;>) .

It is "fruitless" (if you'll pardon the pun) to compare DAWs; they all work. It is the ideas behind the production that are important. Yes, some things become "industry standard" because they are good and rightly should be; others because of marketing, hype, and forced ubiquity (Yamaha NS-10's, anyone else remember those? And yes, Pro Tools, I'm looking at you).

Synapsis-- at the risk of continuing this thread hi-jack of a perverse travesty of the OP's original (very flawed and provocative) thoughts and ideas... What do you mean by "FL Studio can't connect with outboard gear?" Can FL products record with a standard audio interface? If so, then it can connect with analog outboard gear; it's just a matter of patience and routing ability.

Let's move on to more productive, harmonious discussions, and yes, by all means, "Peace throughout the community!"

GJ
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This was beautiful and so well said because I hate when people of all walks of life try to downplay someone or something because of who they or what they use. As if listeners care what the term "industry standard" means or if they think that hat should be fatter. You have your preference and I have mine. You don't have to speak poorly about someone just because you have the right to? Bad form.
 
Synapsis said:
I just wanted to give you a reference to listen to.. not to be a troll, just so you can hear where your mixes 'lack lustre'...

'We come in peace'.. You will hear in your track.. there is a bitey harsh sound in the bass line, and in the whole mix.. it is really harsh on the ears.. Whereas https://soundcloud.com/jacobmin19/e...x-new-edm-dance-charts-songs-club-music-remix

Has far less of that harsh bitey sharpness, you can actually turn it almost full volume, and not want to scream... I am not into that style of music, but one thing is for sure, sharp, harsh sounds, from limiters working too hard, are not pleasant... You want it to sound warm, full, clean, and crunchy, not sharp and bitey... anyway... thats my two cents worth :)
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What time does "we come in peace" come in? This is a set.

EDIT
Oh you mean my track. Apologies. Yeah I'm well aware that it's way too hard on the ears due to a lot of bit crushing. But that's what they make EQ and the volume knob for. That's why DJs are up their twisting knobs because not everything will be perceived the same way. This guy's hat my be too bright so let me turn the highs down. This track needs more mid. Let me push this up a bit. Not all my music is that harsh but I'm not doing anything different as anyone else. That mix you posted has been EQed to fit that mix. You can tell because my track is way more louder than all those professional tracks. But yeah I meant for it to sound "bitey".
 
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I am going to try to clear this out for you from a pro perspective. Technically you can go into incredible depth when it comes to this, but I will simplify this down to a few key technical aspects, using a scoring system for the evaluation, to help you understand this stuff more - to the degree now necessary.


Factor 1 - Max audio interface/converter input/output signal capacity


+14 dBu = 1 point
+18 dBu = 3 points
+28 dBu = 10 points




Factor 2 - DAW sequencer latency


12 ms@44.1 kHz = 1 point
7 ms@44.1 kHz = 5 points
3 ms@192 kHz = 10 points




Factor 3 - Routing Type


A) Tracks not grouped to MID panned and SIDE panned separately = 1 point
B) Tracks grouped to MID panned and SIDE panned separately = 10 points




Factor 4 - Stereo Type


A) Tracks in stereo and mono blended at random, no work in time domain = 1 point
B) Tracks in stereo and mono blended for contrast, work done in time domain = 10 points




Factor 5 - Monitoring Type


A) 1 set of headphones or speakers = 1 point
B) 2 sets of headphones or speakers = 5 points
C) Multiple sets of headphones or speakers = 10 points




Factor 6 - Gain Staging Type


A) Input/Output gain ratio out of balance at multiple levels/scopes = 1 point
B) Input/Output gain ratio in balance at multiple levels/scopes = 10 points




Factor 7 - Dynamics Type


A) Dynamics established at mixing stage using software = 1 points
B) Dynamics established at recording stage using hardware = 10 points






So with these quality parameters available, I am now going to apply this scoring system on the following 3 setups:


Home recording level setup


Clarett 8PreX
Pro Tools 11
44.1 kHz
A - routing type
A - stereo type
B - monitoring type
A - gain staging type
A - dynamics type




Pro- recording level setup


PrismSound Orpheus
Pro Tools 10
44.1 kHz
B - routing type
A - stereo type
C - monitoring type
B - gain staging type
A - dynamics type




Pro+ (commercial) level setup


Prism Dream AD-2/DA-2 *
Logic 9 *
192 kHz *
B - routing type
B - stereo type
C - monitoring type
B - gain staging type
B - dynamics type

*) This combination is practically impossible because the audio interface/converter maxes at 96 kHz sample rate, so I'm giving it a latency score of 5 points


Let's do the math!

**************************
Home recording level setup
Score: 5 points
**************************
Pro- (non-commercial) recording level setup
Score: 7 500 points
**************************
Pro+ (commercial) recording level setup
Score: 5 000 000 points
**************************

So achieving a commercial quality production just requires certain technical parameters in place. Now of course you can polish chicken shit, but the above scoring system illustrates how with certain technical quality parameters in place you do finally get a pro grade mix/master. Notice also how the monitors, audio interface and DAW sequencer@sample rate combo is a factor of 1000, so that's a lot.

The take away point here is that certain quality parameters stem from raw technical hardware quality aspects and certain quality parameters stem from raw technique, it is the combination that then determines whether you are on the pro level or not. It is not like you need some magic talent, but you need this type of insight that is then actualized in practical terms... Many of you are mastering this on the theoretical basis, but practically speaking it is not materialized into the results because you don't have the gear and production conditions you need. It's just that, it's not rocket science.

From a financial perspective you could for instance go for an Apogee Symphony interface and combine that with Logic 9 and be working at 192 kHz sample rate, then you just incorporate a few pro techniques into your workflow and suddenly you are starting play in the pro category. It's then a great difference between being a pro and playing on the chart level at the top... That then becomes a matter of establishing higher quality earlier and the cost of that increases dramatically because you need access to all of the "real"-ly good stuff. That is why in general engineers should not focus so much on what they need, but how to get there. Because at the end of the day, it is when you become emotionally impacted in the right way that the magic happens and that is what so many sadly are disconnected from. There is simply too much "trust" on chicken shit basically, like poor samples, cheap gear, poor production conditions, poor musical trends and so on, it's sadly just not amounting to what engineers need - while the pros at the top although they work very hard also can enjoy the emotional aspects of beautiful music that they create, which is where the sweetness in all of this lies. Therefore, do not trust the sh*t out there, but start to go inwards and guide yourselves towards the real stuff. You need the right music buddies, whether those buddies are close friends that like the same music that you do that you then work with, or whether they are gear, sound sources, room, monitors etc. that match your signature frequency and in that way are there to help create what you need. You need the right music buddies and then feed yourselves the right music too.
 
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To address the OP, theres a little bit of truth to not worrying about the mixing of your beat if you truly want your main focus to be producing. Both those areas of music take a lot of practice, and trying to master both at the same time could slow things down. If youre more interested in producing, then just make sure your stems arent over compressed and the mixing engineer can do their job. If you want to be a mixing engineer then start mixing.

As far as DAWs, theyre all good enough to produce a high quality mix if you know what youre doing. The only real difference is workflow and routing capabilities, and their compatibility with third party hardware. Latency is mostly determined by CPU, not the DAW.

As far as getting a pro mix in the box, its absolutely doable via a home studio with a budget interface and all plugins, and many pros are completely in the box now. The biggest factor at the end of the day is your ears and your monitoring. You dont have to have the best monitors in the world but you definitely need some treatment - thats why a lot of pro studios big costs go into the construction, making sure the mix position is as free from room modes, standing waves, early reflections, combfiltering etc. But even a home studio can have a relatively clean response with some key acoustic panel placement.

The hardware stuff can add a little flavor or a tad more cohesiveness in a mix, but believe me when I tell you its probably only a 5% quality increase, and thats if your ears are even refined enough to hear that kind of difference - the average music consumer will absolutely not know the difference. You have a pro engineer mix a song in the box and a version out of the box, and it will be a commercial ready mix either way.

Bottom line, if you think your tracks arent good because you dont have 50 grand worth of gear, then you just arent good yet. Learning to mix is even harder. This industry is tough.
 
Precision summing, latency correction and plug-in support. That's all you need to mix. Group busses are handy. All DAWs have this.

What's industry standard is mostly to do with industry workflow e.g. certain features that speed up volume work, file sharing compatibility, software support. It has nothing to do with what you can actually do with the software.

If you're working with an orchestra you might need so high end recording gear. Again this is to do with the actual workflow of the project not the production or mixing or master of the music itself.


I'm noticing an inverse correlation between peddling gear and evidence of skill...
 
>>>>I'm noticing an inverse correlation between peddling gear and evidence of skill...<<<<

Dang mate, that was classic, that was...^^^^

GJ

 
I totally disagree with the DAW1 being better than DAW 2 nonsense. Whatever DAW interface suits your workflow and whatever DAW you just "grew up" on so to say is the DAW you should stick with if you personally feel comfortable using it. Most people (myself included) probably have no idea what the full potential of their DAW is – I don't doubt that there are probably features and more efficient ways of doing things/streamlining processes in every DAW than most of us are even aware of b/c, let's be real, a lot of us don't read those thick manuals back to front and subsequently take the time to ponder how each process of a DAW we've read into might link to another (read: I said a lot of us don't do this, not all of us...I'm guilty of it for sure). So really I believe a hit song can come from any DAW with the right person orchestrating the project.

That said, I do agree so far as the point regarding let the professionals who are trained to do a certain job do that job for you instead of trying to be a do-it-all bob if you want the best sound. We can't all be Kanye...I'll use myself as an example again to be fair: I used to try to engineer my own tracks but I didn't enjoy engineering at all and I didn't have the ear or the skill to do it, and I knew it. Still, I persisted in trying to do it myself for as long as I could because, honestly, I was too cheap to want to pay anybody for help, but eventually I bit the bullet to hire an engineer to mix my vocals in songs...and I'll never go back to engineer my own projects again. Might cost a bit more but I've come to the conclusion that, really, money isn't the only thing that has value in this music world – time has value as well and in reality, for someone like me, the time is more important. I'd rather focus all my time on what I'm passionate about – singing and rapping. Not engineering, not producing – just singing and rapping...so the extent of my engineering skills these days is just hitting the record button and nothing else.

So that's my take: If you're truly, truly equally passionate about performing, engineering, and producing, go ahead and do it all but if you're only passionate about one of those things but being too cheap to hire someone who knows what they're doing to do the things you're not passionate about...then I'd say you're only playing yourself in the end. So in that regard yes a professional sound happens when you let the pros do their thing while you solely focus on being a pro at what you're actually good at/passionate about (irrespective of what DAW they're using).
 
What is the sound of one Pro clapping in a forest of microphone stands, cables, rack gear, and lava lamps?...

GJ
 
You can't be serious. This is a troll lmfao. First of all. The Mix goes according to what kind of Track is being made on top of the custom request of the producer. You don't mix rock drums like you would a urban style track. Anyway, It all goes according to the equipment you have. They basically are all the same, and it can damn sure be self taught. I know music producers in colleges that know all about chorusing redundancy to psychoacoustics and multi-sound infusions. But yet can't mix a regular hip hop track for shit lol
 
Hannibal Productions said:
You can't be serious. This is a troll lmfao. First of all. The Mix goes according to what kind of Track is being made on top of the custom request of the producer. You don't mix rock drums like you would a urban style track. Anyway, It all goes according to the equipment you have. They basically are all the same, and it can damn sure be self taught. I know music producers in colleges that know all about chorusing redundancy to psychoacoustics and multi-sound infusions. But yet can't mix a regular hip hop track for shit lol
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They notthesame
 
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