Using monitors is not an option, what headphones are best?

dapenguin64

New member
Let me first start off by saying I mainly produce bass heavy music like dubstep.

So because of my living situation, it is not possible for me to use monitors because my walls are really thin in my apartment. I have recently been looking at headphones with the sole purpose of (doing its best) to replicate studio monitors, although I understand this is near impossible. I have shitty turtle beach headphones for gaming, and whenever I play my tracks on my friends studio monitors, there is absolutely no midrange or bass what so ever.

My budget is under $300, I am prepared to buy headphone amplifiers even if I have to wait a little.

I have been looking at the beyerdynamic DT-770 Pro, DT-880 Pro, and the DT-990 Pro. After doing extensive research, I have heard many people say many different things about which one of these headphones are best for producing with mixing in mind.

People say the DT-770 Pro's are good, but I dont like how they are more bass prominent in the frequency spectrum. I am looking for as much flatness as possible. Also, they are not open backed. I heard open backs are better for my purpose.

People say the DT-990 Pro's are great for if you dont have studio monitors because the sound stage is very wide, sounding more distant. I believe this is because of the open backs of the DT-990's. But, what holds me back from these headphones is the lower frequencies being more prominent in the frequency spectrum. I dont want any coloration or change in frequency, I want the pure sound.

The DT-880 Pro's on the other hand are actually relatively flat, and have been regarded as having the "neutral" sound in between the DT-770 and DT-990. They are also semi open-backed, so it seems ideal with the wider soundstage (but still smaller then the 990's).

But then after almost being sure with going with the DT-880 Pro's, I saw the AKG Q701's. Oh my god they look gorgeous lol.

They are open backed and have a relatively flat frequency response, although the main difference between them is the DT-880 pros seem to be slightly flatter in the low frequencies, and the K Q701's are slightly more flat in the higher frequencies (1000 hz - 10,000 hz).

I need the best headphones I get can for replacing studio monitors within my price range. If anyone has any suggestions, better headphones, I would really really appreciate any input.
 
I'm currently using DT-880 as a mixing/reference headphone. To me it's neutral but many will find that the bass is bit recessed relative to many headphones out there. In my opinion, the low is definately not recessed instead I think there are far too many headphones that are too heavy on bass which screws up your view of what neutral really sounds like. Although I say DT-880 is neutral, it's not completely flat (well in real world, nothing is...). There is a large spike around 5k-8k which will accentuate the sibilance, I think this is one of the reason many say the headphone is very detailed, and in my experience, it really is detailed. Getting used to DT-880's piercing highs will take some time, but once you do, you will begin to notice a lot of stuff you didn't hear before in the same song. Anyway I can only answer you with DT-880 because I don't have any experience with other headphones you've mentioned (I'm sure they are great in their own ways). If you want professional mixing engineers take on mixing headphones go to Studio Headphones on SOS (scroll all the way down for the top 3).

ps. don't get 32 ohm beyer cans!
 
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I am definitely used to screeching highs, the turtle beach gaming headset I have been using is very very top endy. Too bright.

I almost feel like I should just go with the 250Ω DT-880 Pro, and get a decent headphone amp, but the spike that you speak of around 5k-8k scares me. I dont want to have issues around that area.

Also, I have heard that open backed headphones in general are the best for producing and mixing, assuming one has a quiet setting. Is this true?
 
personally i would go with sennheiser HD-25 but honestly the DT770 or 880 will also work fine... i think beyond that you are splitting hairs as the quality in any $200+ headphones are good enough to mixdown... all the pros, even the ones with million dollar studios end up taking their mixed tracks into their cars to do the final listening session anyway...
 
Thanks guys, I think I will go with the Beyerdynamic DT-880 Pro 250 ohm cans. One more thing, I know this is most likely a very stupid question, but would a 1200 watt tube/solid state hybrid bass guitar amp head (ampeg SVT-4 Pro) work for driving these headphones, Or is that just an awful Idea?

Its either that or I will just get a headphone amp, any suggestions for that? Im trying to keep it around $60.
 
Thanks guys, I think I will go with the Beyerdynamic DT-880 Pro 250 ohm cans. One more thing, I know this is most likely a very stupid question, but would a 1200 watt tube/solid state hybrid bass guitar amp head (ampeg SVT-4 Pro) work for driving these headphones, Or is that just an awful Idea?

Its either that or I will just get a headphone amp, any suggestions for that? Im trying to keep it around $60.

Do you need headphone amp for more volume? If so, you wouldn't need to worry about that. My crappy mp3 player can drive DT-880 Pro 250 ohm and I can't even go over 90% volume without blowing my eardrum off. On my RME Babyface, I can't even go over 50%!
 
Do you need headphone amp for more volume? If so, you wouldn't need to worry about that. My crappy mp3 player can drive DT-880 Pro 250 ohm and I can't even go over 90% volume without blowing my eardrum off. On my RME Babyface, I can't even go over 50%!

I have heard that headphone amps can drastically bring out the true sound potential of these headphones, not just volume.
 
I have heard that headphone amps can drastically bring out the true sound potential of these headphones, not just volume.

Headphone amp is not some magical thing you (and those head-fi people) believe it to be. All it does is amplify the signal and sometimes color the signal (in a subjectively good way or bad). There is no such thing as true sound potential. Whatever is coming out of a headphone amp is either a larger/smaller sound signal or a larger/smaller colored sound signal. (colored meaning alteration of eq and/or having amplitude/phase distortion)

The less variable in the signal chain, would be better in my opinion. You are keeping your original sound signals (the closer to true sound signal thats been converted right after the D/A conversion and the amplification) and you are saving money in doing so. The only time I'll recommend getting a headphone amp is when you need more ports for the headphones.
 
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Headphone amp is not some magical thing you (and those head-fi people) believe it to be. All it does is amplify the signal and sometimes color the signal (in a subjectively good way or bad). There is no such thing as true sound potential. Whatever is coming out of a headphone amp is either a larger/smaller sound signal or a larger/smaller colored sound signal. (colored meaning alteration of eq and/or having amplitude/phase distortion)

The less variable in the signal chain, would be better in my opinion. You are keeping your original sound signals (the closer to true sound signal thats been converted right after the D/A conversion and the amplification) and you are saving money in doing so. The only time I'll recommend getting a headphone amp is when you need more ports for the headphones.

You have saved me lots of money my good friend.
 
Headphone amp is not some magical thing you (and those head-fi people) believe it to be. All it does is amplify the signal and sometimes color the signal (in a subjectively good way or bad). There is no such thing as true sound potential.

A horribly wrong advice.

The quality range of headphone amps is ridiculously diverse. The problem is, people are used to super cheap 20 cent IC headphone amps and actually never heard a proper headphone amp in their whole life. No wonder, such a device starts around 500$, but even the most shiddy music box comes with an "extra" headphone out most people regard as "good enough" without further thought. So most people never ever think about actually trying out a quality pre-amp and start claiming nonsense such as "you can't mix with headphones".

Fact is, that 20 cent pre-amp will color the signal in an extremely bad manner. All consumer oriented headphones and headphone amps without exception do so. Most of all because people love to have that Maxxbass-"ish" sound with their earphones, all consumer headphone amps a built to heavily color by "design". And this is the very reason why you shouldn't touch low quality consumer brands such as sennheiser, sony or beyerdynamic for professional tasks and most of all never ever use standard headphone outs of your gear for serious monitoring purposes. Quality circuits things don't color "more beautifully", they color less (i.e. less bad), which is the whole point of running quality gear.

Really interested people will find reasonable headphone alternatives from Stax and Grado, as well as really proper and neutral headphone amps from SPL, Lehmann Audio and a few more.
 
A horribly wrong advice.

The quality range of headphone amps is ridiculously diverse. The problem is, people are used to super cheap 20 cent IC headphone amps and actually never heard a proper headphone amp in their whole life. No wonder, such a device starts around 500$, but even the most shiddy music box comes with an "extra" headphone out most people regard as "good enough" without further thought. So most people never ever think about actually trying out a quality pre-amp and start claiming nonsense such as "you can't mix with headphones".

Fact is, that 20 cent pre-amp will color the signal in an extremely bad manner. All consumer oriented headphones and headphone amps without exception do so. Most of all because people love to have that Maxxbass-"ish" sound with their earphones, all consumer headphone amps a built to heavily color by "design". And this is the very reason why you shouldn't touch low quality consumer brands such as sennheiser, sony or beyerdynamic for professional tasks and most of all never ever use standard headphone outs of your gear for serious monitoring purposes. Quality circuits things don't color "more beautifully", they color less (i.e. less bad), which is the whole point of running quality gear.

Really interested people will find reasonable headphone alternatives from Stax and Grado, as well as really proper and neutral headphone amps from SPL, Lehmann Audio and a few more.

Yes, like you said the quality gear will color less than the consumer grade ones. I don't know how good OP's audio interface is, but most boxes I've tried sounded fairly clean for producing music. That's why I said its better to leave out the headphone amp to have less varible in the signal chain.
 
A horribly wrong advice.

The quality range of headphone amps is ridiculously diverse. The problem is, people are used to super cheap 20 cent IC headphone amps and actually never heard a proper headphone amp in their whole life. No wonder, such a device starts around 500$, but even the most shiddy music box comes with an "extra" headphone out most people regard as "good enough" without further thought. So most people never ever think about actually trying out a quality pre-amp and start claiming nonsense such as "you can't mix with headphones".

Fact is, that 20 cent pre-amp will color the signal in an extremely bad manner. All consumer oriented headphones and headphone amps without exception do so. Most of all because people love to have that Maxxbass-"ish" sound with their earphones, all consumer headphone amps a built to heavily color by "design". And this is the very reason why you shouldn't touch low quality consumer brands such as sennheiser, sony or beyerdynamic for professional tasks and most of all never ever use standard headphone outs of your gear for serious monitoring purposes. Quality circuits things don't color "more beautifully", they color less (i.e. less bad), which is the whole point of running quality gear.

Really interested people will find reasonable headphone alternatives from Stax and Grado, as well as really proper and neutral headphone amps from SPL, Lehmann Audio and a few more.

im going to give a flipside to this....

what you are saying is correct: e.g. yes cheaper headphones and headphone amps color the sound to produce results that people find more desirable... but you have to keep in mind that there is a practicality aspeect to what is being created here...

basically with the way music is created today its really about cranking out hits fast and often with results that are good enough... its not like 20 years ago when the record companies would budget millions to create literal sonic masterpieces... nowadays good enough is good enough... basically the music today is potato chips instead of a steak dinner... secondly producers have to produce taking into account the medium on which the music is being listened to; most people listen either in their cars or on headphones with their iphone, or with edm its played on club sound systems..the days of the audiophile listening with a nice preamp/headphones to a copy of "dark side of the moon" are long gone... the vast majority of people simply dont care that much to spend a ton of money on their listening experience when (for them) a set of earbuds will do...

so anyway.. back to mixing... yes you can literally mixdown on a set of $200 headphones plugged into the headphone jack on a laptop... is this ok for film soundtrack work? no way.. but for making beats or edm tracks that are just going to be played on peoples iphones its good enough... i know pro producers that (when not in the studio) do this sort of work on a laptop with a pair of shitty beats audio headphones... keep in mind that i fully agree that a nice expensive setup will produce better overall results but its hard to justify spending *alot* more money on gear when to be honest the cheaper stuff is going to produce a product that is almost as good...
 
I got some sennheiser 380 hd pros... and even though they were certainly on the expensive side, I couldn't have asked for a better set of hdphones. Absolutely love these things.
 
Type_1a;49510001...when to be honest the cheaper stuff is going to produce a product that is almost as good...[/QUOTE said:
But who's satisfied with being "almost as good"?

Don't people want to be the best anymore?

Peace.
 
why are producers trying to mix...leave that to a mix engineer
network with a great mix engineer
keep he/she on retainer
strike up a deal for $30 per beat(see back in the day ppl weren't mixing beats because they weren't trying to sell 2-track MP3s on the net
producers were pitching tracks to artists for songs

now producers have a extra duty mixing
instead of just simple level adjustments
any true mix engineer is going to have several systems they listen on and trust
reference monitors
yamaha NS10s

loud and large (true bass response) studio monitors
the ones they usually keep inside of the wall in the studio


I be using ZenPro modified Audio mYammy HS80m's

two floor speakers with 15" sub and midrange tweeter (and 600 watt amp) to check bass response (for what it will sound like in clubs/live settings)

headphones to check panning

when I produce
I use $10 Toby Headphones and my laptop

I'm not worrying about mixing
I'm worrying about making a beat

 
There is nothing wrong with a producer learning to mix or mixing his own tracks. In this day and age it makes sense to know how this works. Being self-efficient is NEVER a bad thing especially if they are effective. How can you become effective without practice. Nothing wrong with wearing many hats.
 
Personally, I have a wide variety of headphones. I always seem to lean to my Bose: AE2's. They have a great low-frequency response, and are good for mixing vocals. They are only $150 and are definitely a good deal.
 
There is nothing wrong with a producer learning to mix or mixing his own tracks. In this day and age it makes sense to know how this works. Being self-efficient is NEVER a bad thing especially if they are effective. How can you become effective without practice. Nothing wrong with wearing many hats.

I believe this but a lot of producers wanting to learn how to mix
don't have
or
can't have
the tools to do the job
can't afford mixing class studio monitors
can't use monitors have to use headphones????????what!!!!
I don't mix anything that I put up on Soundcloud
I only do level adjustments

I'm rather be a audio engineer that a producer anyday

but I love production as well

so of course I wear many hats

but I'm willing to buy the right equipment and can use that equipment in my home

I don't have a young baby and I'm in house,not apt.

---------- Post added at 04:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:06 PM ----------

Personally, I have a wide variety of headphones. I always seem to lean to my Bose: AE2's. They have a great low-frequency response, and are good for mixing vocals. They are only $150 and are definitely a good deal.

Aren't Bose products made to hype up the sound and not sound true sound?????

 
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