so we all know that compression is one of the hardest tools to perfect right. i know how to use compressors on a basic level, like when trying to control a signal. but how do i use it to make my drums and bass kick/punch. i compress my kick as much as i can but it doesnt seem to kick any more then it did b4. do i have to play with the attack or release?
using compression to give punch
- Thread starter bhavin
- Start date
M
MASSIVE Mastering
Guest
All of the controls work in concert with each other. The attack and release is paramount when looking to attain (and *retain*) a "punchy" sounding signal.
There's your problem right there. Never compress "as much as you can" - Compress "as little as possible to fit the dynamic range you're trying to attain" - No more.
As has been said don't over-do it, but try this little trick.
Put a compressor in an aux buss and route some of the signal there, then mix the two together. That way you can raise the apparent volume while using the full dynamic range of the original signal to break through.
It takes some time to perfect the technique, but you can get some umpph out of your signal.
Put a compressor in an aux buss and route some of the signal there, then mix the two together. That way you can raise the apparent volume while using the full dynamic range of the original signal to break through.
It takes some time to perfect the technique, but you can get some umpph out of your signal.
K
kid848
Guest
... are you sure the track even needs compression?...
Most hip hop drums don't need compression at all...
If you want your drums to bang, find samples that bang...
Most hip hop drums don't need compression at all...
If you want your drums to bang, find samples that bang...
M
MASSIVE Mastering
Guest
kid848 said:
Word.
To the peeps...
In the house... Yo.
2nice
Active member
using compression to give punch? how about, using good performances to give punch? or finding good raw sounds to give punch?
if your dynamics are off because you used a weak drum sample or recorded a bad instrumental performance, compression isnt just going to make it all better. i was tweaking compression at all sorts of crazy settings on my drum sounds until i realized that they were never going to sound better without a change of the raw samples. then i started sampling from vinyl and immediately my tracks were sounding better without any compression.
if your dynamics are off because you used a weak drum sample or recorded a bad instrumental performance, compression isnt just going to make it all better. i was tweaking compression at all sorts of crazy settings on my drum sounds until i realized that they were never going to sound better without a change of the raw samples. then i started sampling from vinyl and immediately my tracks were sounding better without any compression.
I see a lot of people on here cautioning against too much compression, even saying use none if you can. Of course Im all for not squashing the life out of tracks, but as an electronic dance music maker ( I won't call myself a producer till Im making signable tracks ) compression is vital to my sound. I couldnt get the same house vibe I do with little or no compression. Especially in the bass area. Im not shy of getting 3db of gain reduction on my kick and bass, and then 2bd more reduction of the subs in my multiband. The mid bands get no more than 1bd reduction, and hi's can get 2bd in the multiband. There are not "rules" I follow, I tweak till I like the sound, but it just always ends up around about these amounts. So I say some reasonably strong compression is absolutley fine, even necessary in dance music, as long as you keep the attack long enough to maintain your transients.
I will upload a track soon if anyone cares to see what Im talking about. I don't think Im getting any dulling, and it feels not so much louder as more "energised" than an uncompressed track.
I will upload a track soon if anyone cares to see what Im talking about. I don't think Im getting any dulling, and it feels not so much louder as more "energised" than an uncompressed track.
Circuitboardsoul
New member
Having a long enough attack time helps to prevent squashing, but if you cant get any more kick to the drum, maybe the sample has already been compressed? A lot of drum sample CDs tend to compress the **** out of their drums. Making them sound more appealing to newbies? 
Samplecraze
Zukan
Try parallel compression.
moses
hardliner
try the following setting:
attack: as long as possible, >300ms
release: as short as possible
ratio: very small, something around 1,2:1
threshold: very deep, around -30dB
something like this can add punch to some samples or even full mixes. but don't expect any increase in volume from this setting and it will not work on all material.
why are you using compression? the logical way is to use an expander, a 'soft gate'. if you want more punsh, than expand your drums. or use a transient-designer, the perfect tool for your needs.
compression is to take out the punsh of your track to raise the average level. some guys talk about hearing more punsh after compression. this is an illusion, because they don't make correct A/B checks. what they hear is simply a louder signal. but punsh is something else, a high dynamic range is essential for punsh, compression is the wrong way if you ask me.
attack: as long as possible, >300ms
release: as short as possible
ratio: very small, something around 1,2:1
threshold: very deep, around -30dB
something like this can add punch to some samples or even full mixes. but don't expect any increase in volume from this setting and it will not work on all material.
why are you using compression? the logical way is to use an expander, a 'soft gate'. if you want more punsh, than expand your drums. or use a transient-designer, the perfect tool for your needs.
compression is to take out the punsh of your track to raise the average level. some guys talk about hearing more punsh after compression. this is an illusion, because they don't make correct A/B checks. what they hear is simply a louder signal. but punsh is something else, a high dynamic range is essential for punsh, compression is the wrong way if you ask me.
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Isn't that rather because Dance purposely uses compression as a perceptible effect, ie. pumping and 'breathing'?harlley said:
[I refer to Dance as a genre on its own with lots of analogue buzzing synths and huge melody lines - as opposed to other club genres which are perhaps closer to HipHop SOUNDWISE.]
I dont see it as just getting more percieved volume. You can control the amount of sub coming thru with the attack time. Having the sub aread very steady dynamic wise really firms up feel and seems to give more rhythmic drive. It's not just level, compression allows wave forms to reach thier peak level faster and hold it for longer, which makes the music feel more forward in the speakers, closer to your ear.
I know what you mean by drive. I always call it 'that urgent feel'. That's what you want for House, Techno, Trance etc. The thing is though that compression on already compressed samples (especially drums) works best really only on steady 4 to the floor beats around 120-140BPM.Buddha said:
On the other hand, crunching the sub on broken beats or slower jams can in fact ruin the track, making it sound small and flat - at least from my experience. The trick here is to NOT make the dynamics steady but to keep that 'skipping' feel.
Then when it comes to mastering for vinyl things get compressed already way enough to my taste. Due to the limited dynamic range you can't live without it though
moses said:
i would disagree in somethings here, lets take a kick for example: if you use an attack on the compressor, lets say 5-10 ms, everything except the transients of the kick will be affected, thus making it feel more punchier after setting up the makeup gain to compensate for the db-reduction?
and a question: what is an expander/soft gate? it sounds interesting
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moses
hardliner
@fn86: hehe, you are right. but punsh is more than just short transients for me 
we need to define what "punsh" is i think... ...but please, not today...
a soft gate or downward expander is the opposite of a compressor (a gate is the opposite of a limiter). signals under a certain threshold are reducted (an upward expander will raise the loud signal), effectively extending the dynamic range. this can be very usefull with overcompressed drumsamples or sometimes even full mixes.
but my favorite drum processor is the SPL transient designer. there's nothing better if the samples aren't right.
we need to define what "punsh" is i think... ...but please, not today... a soft gate or downward expander is the opposite of a compressor (a gate is the opposite of a limiter). signals under a certain threshold are reducted (an upward expander will raise the loud signal), effectively extending the dynamic range. this can be very usefull with overcompressed drumsamples or sometimes even full mixes.
but my favorite drum processor is the SPL transient designer. there's nothing better if the samples aren't right.
moses said:@fn86: hehe, you are right. but punsh is more than just short transients for me
a soft gate or downward expander is the opposite of a compressor (a gate is the opposite of a limiter). signals under a certain threshold are reducted (an upward expander will raise the loud signal), effectively extending the dynamic range. this can be very usefull with overcompressed drumsamples or sometimes even full mixes.
but my favorite drum processor is the SPL transient designer. there's nothing better if the samples aren't right.
so there are two types of expanders, downwards and upwards, and soft gate is another name for downwards expander?
are there any big vst-companies that has these kind of plugins? like waves or something, cause i really play around with one of those =)
moses
hardliner
oh yes, the waves C1 gate is an excellent (downward) expander. play around with it, it's not that complicated. a nice feature of this plug is that the floor paramter (another name for ratio in dB scale) can be made positive, that means the low levels get pushed to higher levels: this is the best upward compressor i know, a real secret weapon. check the preset "Upward Comp" to see how it is made.
if you want an upward expander, try the ren-comp or c1 comp and make the ratio smaller than 1:1, something like 0.5:1. this is an upward expander. use fast attack times to add punsh.
a very nice trick on drums is "parallel gating". duplicate your channel, put a gate on one channel and don't process the other. mix the gated signal into the unprocessed signal to create some very powerfull drums.
if you want an upward expander, try the ren-comp or c1 comp and make the ratio smaller than 1:1, something like 0.5:1. this is an upward expander. use fast attack times to add punsh.
a very nice trick on drums is "parallel gating". duplicate your channel, put a gate on one channel and don't process the other. mix the gated signal into the unprocessed signal to create some very powerfull drums.
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