UNDERSTANDING TRAP MUSIC...........LESSON 1... 808 trap BASS

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dspapoc123

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1-First of all, bass is not simple to mix, you cant just layer an 808 with a kick and expect it to be full and punchy.
2-you have to learn to use side chaining, once you understand this, you can side chain the 808 with the kick, this will lower the 808 only when the kick is being triggered freeing up headroom for the bass to be punchy yet not clipping!
3- a simple way to get it puchy with less complexity, is to use a master buss compressor, it does almost the same as side chaining except it glues everything tin the mix together(cheap quick punch fix lol).
4-when you want your bass to be dominant, you dont turn it up, you make spectral space in the frequencies below 200, do a bass roll off on everything below 200 and youll notice the bass sounds cleaner and more dominant not louder!
 
i don't think side chaining is really necessary, doing the roll off on every instrument for me seems to be exactly what i need to have a solid mix on not only my 808 but the mix as a whole. once yu roll off all those extra frequencies on every instrument it clears up all that space for the 808 to sit pretty and sound clean, deep, and not muddy..exporting correctly also has a big thing to do with how your trap beat will sound. I will never export my beat in MP3 form in FLStudio ever again, the quality will disappoint you every time, no matter how well it sounds in FL. if yu absolutley have to export in MP3 make sure yu have it on 320kbps and 512-point sinc interpolation...just my opinion tho, thats what works for me
 
You don't need side chaining, don't even need a compressor at that. So many different ways.

I would say before anything make sure they are pitched/tuned before you end up sitting there all day wondering why it's always clashing. Same for the kick on top...just makes everything easier to start with.
 
I've never put a compressor on any of my kicks. Don't even do any processing directly to kicks beyond the options available in the drum module(vol, pitch, asdhr, possibly filters, ect). I can post tracks that knock harder than anything you post commercial or independent that overall sound cleaner as well.

The secret is good sound selection, good levels in a clean mix and Mastering.
 
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(vol, pitch, asdhr, possibly filters, ect)
Click to expand...

Same here...usually have it highpassed with a low cutoff to control the boominess, and the resonance for that low mid punch. For the amp ASDR I use sustain to control the hit of the punchiness. I don't even find my self using eq or any kind of post effect on the 808 most of the time with no clipping, the meters are in the cool green...just using the filter alone. Sometimes I would do a dramatic change when the whole track just doesn't feel right with the 808...and transpose all the instruments a few semitones up or down along with the 808...sometimes leave the drums as is or change them a few semitones too. I haven't done that in a while. Its not always about just the 808 itself to make it all work right...

Thats the truth when it comes to sound selection though. All you really need is one....just one good sample...you could use it over and over on different tracks, and just make small adjustments so it sounds and feels right with the track your working on.
 
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THE NEXT LESSON WILL BE ON melody/vocal DUCKING FOR PUNCHINESS........WHEN THE 808 IS NOT PRESENT, the melody and vocals have headroom to come up a little, but when the 808 drops back in , melody/vocal ducking is the best choice for carving out just enough space in the mix.....its another way of using side chaining. if your mix is is always evolving and changing it sounds more analog and less stiff and brittle, the older engineers used to ride the fader on every track just so it fit right, now the advanced engineers use the sidechaining/ducking techniques to achieve the maximum amount of loudness while preserving the clarity!!! its all about headroom fellas!

---------- Post added at 07:47 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:45 PM ----------

check out some of my trap producer packs, alot of the trap drums have been ran through an ssl 9000 master buss and already have the bass side chained then exported so the bass samples already have punchiness!


apoc123's profile
 
lol trust me wen i say this do ur research everyday till u hit the nail .. i did
 
Okay, here I go again on my little rant. Advice like this is well intentioned, but all too often is really just bad advice. It’s like a band aid to fix issues that SHOULD be fixed in more appropriate ways.

The side-chaining thing…. I see amateurs talking about side-chaining like it’s the holy grail. It is NOT a common method among professional mix engineers to get the kick working. We just mix it right so you don’t have to resort to side-chaining. Although there are always exceptions, generally speaking the only times we use sidechaining on a kick is to make a synth pump like in a lot of EDM style music. Side-chaining is totally and completely unnecessary to get an 808 kick to sound good in a mix. If you find you need side chaining to get your kick to sit right, that’s a BIG CLUE that something else is messed up that you need to fix.

Next, the mixbuss compression thing. If you are relying on your mixbuss compressor to make your 808s hit harder, then chances are you are using WAY TOO MUCH compression on the mix buss.

And last, the whole HPF everything else at 200Hz is again, a giant band aid for a bigger problem. Do this will clear out space for your 808 kick, but it will also make everything else sound thin, which is not what you want. You clear out space for your trap style 808 kick with the ARRANGEMENT. I see people talking all the time about HPFing everything except kick/bass and they are usually amateurs. I make some great points about this very topic in this interview: Psychology of a Mix Engineer: Chris Carter | Modern Mixing

Sorry to debunk basically every tip the OP gave, but I feel the need to be the voice of experience and reason. The blind leading the blind just makes you run in circles.
 
Do you want easy? Or do you want it to sound good? Lots of things in life can be easy, but the results aren't so great. Want an easy dinner? Buy a microwave meal-in-a-box. Want it to taste good? Learn how to cook from scratch. yes, it's a lot harder, more time consuming, and requires learning the skills, and requires lots of screwing up before you are good at it, but it will taste better in the end.

95% of technical mixing is simply balancing instruments together with no other wizardry.
 
I was going to reply to this thread , but you pretty much took the words outta my mouth of wat I was gonna say . Definitely a lot of amateur mixers out there who give bad advice
 
I think u missunderstood me, i said that usually i use sidechaining and imo it's the easiest way. I didn't said that i use it because it's easy, i already spent a lot of time(and i mean, A LOT) watching mixing tutorials on this, but most of the time like beatdilla said, there's bad advices.. and that's why i ask u to be more specific
 
some ppl need to get off their dam high horse...comin on these forums sayin ppl give bad advice, and dont have any input on giving a solution, instead yu jus comment on how the advice is bad...your not helping...if your such a great mixing and mastering guru why dont yu give what yu would call "good advice" instead of feeding your ego thinking your way is better or the correct way..
 
1st of all, I produce, mix and master for ymcmb so if any of you say that no compressor on a kick is needed, your obviously not a professional, also side chaining is essential to creating a competitive mix , not just the bass but the vocals too called ducking, have any of you ever heard of the loudness wars? well in the club, that war is world war 4 so you need a loud yet clean mix........if you dont use side chain, your probably mixing like a bedroom fruity loops producer...... ever wonder why your still making beats but didnt get rich yet? its your poor mixing most likely .........this was not to everybody, just the amateurs who disagree with controlling transients on kick drums(COMPRESSORS)

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"Although there are always exceptions, generally speaking the only times we use sidechaining on a kick is to make a synth pump like in a lot of EDM style music."

SERIOUSLY? you must be either an old geezer or a dinosaur, in the music industry, we use sidechaining on all genres of music even country, so what ever idiot said this is totally wrong. have you ever heard of rick ross's "bmf" , well , thats a perfect example of light correct usage of sidechaining on an 808 and a 808 kick to create the punchiness without clipping. smh you old geezers claim sidechaining is the holy grail, well its a technique which was developed to bypass riding the fader....if you even know what that is ........i challenge you chris carter to a mix off!!!!!!!
 
I too was wondering why you would apply ducking to an urban track with respect to the kick drum? I think with proper arrangement and instrument selection you can get a punchy 808/layered kick and still have it sit well in the mix. Unless you were trying to get that pumping sensation that is a common staple of electronic dance music I would personally stay away from sidechain compression in an urban (trap) track.

I did agree with your advice on cutting (EQing) low-end frequencies on instruments that don't need them. Some instruments add unnecessary mud to a mix, getting rid of that does not cause a loss in instrument energy or intensity but does create more sonic space to work with. Just make sure that you actually go through the sounds you think could be causing problems, solo them, and listen to the differences as you cut to make sure you are not losing novel characteristics of that particular instrument during your EQing. Cutting everything aside from the sub range will leave you with a thin track sitting on top of a big boomy kick.
 
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side chaining a kick with a 808 bass on an urban track is only what you would use if you were experienced, otherwise you would get the easily attained(actually annoying) pumping that coincides with over side chaining and common in electronic music however.......its a skill that is attained from years of working in the industry......actually quite hard but when properly (make sure its subtle though) done, it will allow you to increase the gain on your whole mix about 1 db.....which translates into a competitive volume.
I agree that the mix, panning, automation ,and eq is equally important.....sidechaining is only a tool that can be used to increase loudness and punchiness


"when you get a benz i'll value your opinion" -t.i.

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its funny when engineers that have no experience in the urban field try to comment like they know everything...lol smh ...they probably mix for the backstreet boys or something weak like that.......hahahahaha

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they probably use old cheap beginner gear like the notoriously cheap art pro vla also!!!!!
 
As an engineer who's overly experienced in the urban field, I again call B.S.

And plenty of songs from YMCMB artists are mixed like shyt, no offense, I have no clue what you've done for them to comment on your stuff, just honesty.

I've produced and engineered for more than a handful of "major artists" myself(FYI, these days that means nothing except you were a cheaper resource than the last guy, let's not front for the guys who don't know better), and again I'll say, there was some pretty bad advice given in this thread.
 
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lolololoolLOLOLOLOLOLOLlolol .........are you really judging? You Lame soundclick bedroom producer you sell your beats for 22.99 ....I produce, mix and master for young money, you sell your beats for 22 bucks......SERIOUSLY????? deranged 4 plucked.....your beats are mixed brittle and you can't even play a melody without quantize, I heard your sound click, anyway I don't value your opinion beacuase you are a amateur!!! who have you made beats for, your broke homeboys???
I produced for Rocko, Gudda, Iceberg, Billy Blue,lil Wayne, Mystical, Compton Menace, Kevin Gates, French Montana....just to name a few I worked with all in the last year.......

its sucks when you trying to help and you get a novice beatmaker start hating ..........

---------- Post added at 01:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 01:43 AM ----------

show me a song mixed bad from ymcmb and ill show you how it compares to your lame soundclick trash deranged 4 phuckedup
 
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