Soundtracs Solitaire 32ch --- urgent decision to make

THM

New member
Hi guys, I have a VERY urgent decision to make (still today):

Soundtracs Solitaire 32ch

I can buy a Soundtracs Solitaire in MINT condition for a - relatively of course - very reasonable price (± $3,000) but I have to decide today; I heard and read so much great things about it, but I was going the digital way... Should I wait with digital and get this one and an A/D converter ?

Please I'm asking - for once - help me as fast as you can !!

Thanks. :cheers:
 
Well it seems really nice.. but massive :: I Hope you have plenty of space to put it : : :

I like that it has gating built int (only if it's got the onboard sections.. I'm not sure how many versions of it they made) .. but good gating isn't as important if your not going to tape. You can edit out everything you need if your recording to Harddrive.
- I dislike the EQ section. You can't set your Q at all. (or from the pictures it doesn't seem like it).. which is something you can do with virutally every digital console.


ASk yourslef how much work you actually do in the computer :: If you're answer if like 90%.. go digital:: becasue chances are it'll have MMC, and you can set up your sequencer to accept the changes from the mixer... intergrating your hands-on hardware.. and your computer interface...

But it's a great price.. if you think you could re-sell it for more:: give it a try, and use the profit for digital gear if that is what you decide... Try it out, and if you don't like the workflow.. sell it off, You're almost guarenteed to AT LEASt make your money back on it. There is a HUge learning curve for digital mixers tho.. so keep that in mind if you'll have clients comming in to do paying work.
 
Me personally, I definitely prefer having an analog mixer to work with. I've used digital mixer before, and the automation capabilities were great, but when I'm mixing, I use my analog beast (even though I track in Pro Tools.)

Why?

Well...

Your subgroups and aux sends/returns occur with no latency. This is very important to my mixing style, as I like to blend several versions of a track. For example: split the kick drum to 2 channels. Use 1 channel for your supa-compressed "slappy" attack kick. Then use the second as a scoopy, more natural kick, then blend them. It's much easier to get your desired result, while the sound doesn't become "over-processed"-sounding. Same with the snare: split it, let one be the "snap", the other the "thump".

Also, I like to make a submix of the drums with an aux send: lotsa kick, lotsa snare, a bit of room (or re-amped, re-recorded mix... but that's another story). Then you compress the submix like crazy, and mix it back in. Now you have both the crazy-pumping-compressed sound, along with a natural sound space. Best of both worlds.

I like to send the main vocal to an analog distortion unit, and maybe a compressor, then blend the distorted signal back in behind the vocal. It adds grit and presence, while the vocal is still very intelligible and present. Again, best of both worlds.

None of these techniques could be used in a digital mixing console, because each digital in and out introduces a slight delay, so recombining the signals sounds much worse. You could do inside a DAW, if you're prepared to do the latency compensation (or if you're prepared to trust your software to do it for you.)

Also...

An analog mix buss sounds much better than a mix "in the box" to me. Even if I just buss stereo pairs to my analog board, then re-record the mix into a pair of inputs, it sounds much better.

I'd go for the Soundtracs, no question. An excellent tool, and you'll learn many valuable techniques by working with an analog board.

My opinion only, of course.

-Hoax
 
OMFG!

Your subgroups and aux sends/returns occur with no latency.
There is latency be it small just in the send return path. But if you are running the sends into a processor then there will be a delay there in the AD's and DA's as well this is where most of the delay will come in. In a digital desk many of the processors are onboard and will have a much lower latency.
Also, I like to make a submix of the drums with an aux send: lotsa kick, lotsa snare, a bit of room (or re-amped, re-recorded mix... but that's another story). Then you compress the submix like crazy, and mix it back in.
Very easy on a digital desk.
I like to send the main vocal to an analog distortion unit, and maybe a compressor, then blend the distorted signal back in behind the vocal. It adds grit and presence, while the vocal is still very intelligible and present.
Easy easy easy
None of these techniques could be used in a digital mixing console
Not true, most of that can be done onboard a digital console and this will have "zero" latency, even if you have to bounce out to analog there would be less than 1ms of latency in the entire loop.
 
THM
are you sure its a solitaire ? if i remember right those were much more expensive, around 27 to 30 k, very nice desks, and great sounding too, it is based on the soundtracs jade, a killer desk IMO, its not an SSL or a neve but they are certainly professional tools, you can most definitely get great sounding results with one of them....

hey if it's not a scam and the desk is OK what the hell are you waiting for ??? !!!

buy it now ! I'd pick the solitaire over the digital boards you were asking about earlier any day ...
 
It's the worst things when gear like that passes us by.:(

Edit: Sometimes, deals don't go through for whatever reasons. May be worth it to contact the sell via e-mail and let them know that if they're deal doesn't go through, you are interested.

Maybe bump it up slightly to the next hundred amount to get him thinking.:D If you really want it, you never know, could possibly work.
 
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Soundcraft GS-3000 for $3,500

I know where to find a Soundcraft GS-3000 for $3,500 (not on Ebay; I could pick it up and it's a fixed price here in Belgium); is that an interesting option too ?

any +/- ?
 
Or should I rather opt for a Soundcraft GHOST ?

Damn' I need urgently a mixer and I don't know which one... - but it does have to be an excellent one !!

Budget $1,500-$3,500 (really max.)
 
the ghost is a very nice desk, the solitarie is on another level...but it looked like too good a deal IMO...

but the ghost sounds very good, has a very usable full parametric eq, solo in place which is great, 8 auxes, it's a nice desk, i don't think you'll be disappointed with a ghost, but there's no automation, only mutes can be automated via midi which is good enough, but no recall or more sophisticated automation features...
 
They have the bad reputation (I mean the GHOST mixers) that they are - litterally NOT very solid (not talking about the sound here); often broken parts, disfunctional sections, etc... Is that true, or just a general misunderstanding ?
 
i guess it all depends on how you treat them, i've done some work on two different ghosts and they are fine, the owners are very happy with them, they are supposed to sound much better with a variac mod in the power supply which makes the ghost sound like a bigger desk...
the ghost didnt feel like a crappy desk to me, but i would suggest you try one out before you buy, as an alternative you should take a look at the Speck Xtramix which a massive rack mounted mixer, they sound great and they have lots of inputs, the speck Lilo (which is not out yet) is another one worth checking out, they are excellent quality mixers, not very well known but excellent sounding and solidly built...

speckelectronics.com
 
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mungo, I respectfully disagree in a few areas.

quote:
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Your subgroups and aux sends/returns occur with no latency.
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There is latency be it small just in the send return path. But if you are running the sends into a processor then there will be a delay there in the AD's and DA's as well this is where most of the delay will come in. In a digital desk many of the processors are onboard and will have a much lower latency.

Actually, there isn't latency inherent in the send/return of an analog desk. You are correct, though, when you say that there will be delay (latency) inherent in outboard digital signal processing.

The techniques I often use (and to which I was referring) are analog processes (namely, EQ, compression, and distortion, all in the analog realm)

quote:
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None of these techniques could be used in a digital mixing console
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Not true, most of that can be done onboard a digital console and this will have "zero" latency, even if you have to bounce out to analog there would be less than 1ms of latency in the entire loop.

I don't think that these processes can be done within a digital desk without latency. At least, they haven't been able to be on any digital desk I've ever used. (Generally, Yamaha digital mixers). Now, if you were to, say, replace the vocal with a distorted version, the latency would be so small as to be unnoticeable. But when you try to blend the two signals, it's very noticeable as comb-filtering. It's even more noticeable on the aux-send-drum-buss-squish-return trick. Very noticeable comb filtering.

I really wish that this could happen, but it just ain't so. This is possible within a DAW like Nuendo (which can shift only, say, the send earlier in time, so as to avoid latency) but it's impossible on a digital desk. One way I've gotten around it before is by bouncing the super-squish signal to a new track, then advancing that track in time (well, actually, delaying every other track by milliseconds).

Believe me, I've tried every workaround I could possibly think of. Digital boards are extremely convenient in their automation options, and can be extremely precise and transparent in their EQs, but there are some things a desk alone just categorically cannot do. Passing signals through D/A then A/D without latency is one of those things.

Just try it. You'll hear.

Sorry to hijack your thread, THM.

-Hoax
 
The techniques I often use (and to which I was referring) are analog processes (namely, EQ, compression, and distortion, all in the analog realm)
You have all those on the channels in a digital mixer already, plus the EQ's are very flexible.

Now, if you were to, say, replace the vocal with a distorted version, the latency would be so small as to be unnoticeable. But when you try to blend the two signals, it's very noticeable as comb-filtering. It's even more noticeable on the aux-send-drum-buss-squish-return trick. Very noticeable comb filtering.
One easy trick around this is to run the desired track through 2 channels on the desk and use the dynamics processor one one of the channels to emulate a distortion unit :) And I've never had any issues running percussion thru the distortion at the FX processors, what desk were you using? There should only be a few clocks of delay between the input and output of the FX processors (turn of the EQ's on the returns).
 
I have used Soundcraft and Soundtracs mixers. Here are my impressions:

I used a Soundtracs in the first studio in which I worked after getting out of school. We had the first 8 channels modified with the noise gate, and to include fully parametric EQs. (We usually ended up putting the vocals and crucial drums on the first 8 channels because of this.) The rest of the channels had no noise gate, and the EQ had fixed frequencies. The frequencies were quite well-chosen, and worked for most mixes. Looking at it in retrospect, it was a pretty quiet board (could hear the self-noise of the plate reverb very readily), but wasn't particularly transparent. That's not a problem for me, as I like my gear to contribute a little character to the sound. The EQs weren't quite as sweet as other British EQs such as Trident or Allen & Heath, but were quite nice. The mix buss sounded particularly good and unconstricted. Lots of headroom there, if I remember correctly (or maybe my just-out-of-school self was just being super-cautious about gain structure).

I've got a buddy who's using a Soundcraft Ghost, and his opinions seem to jive with those already expressed: Sound is decent, flexibility is decent, but the board itself doesn't feel so solid under the fingers. I'm using a little Soundcraft mixer here at home, and my opinion is the same: a very quiet board. EQs are halfway between generic American and cranky British. Faders feel quite nice (they're ALPS faders), but overall, the pots feel a bit shaky and not-so-solid. Still, the sound quality is nice for what I do.]

Honestly, I'd go with either of these before a digital console. My mixing style depends a great deal on having no latency whatsoever, no matter how many sends/returns/busses and analog processes I apply to a given signal. When you get yours, you'll understand more as you experiment with it. It's truly a wonderful thing.

-Hoax
 
* Allen & Heath GS-3000 * or * Soundtrack GHOST 32ch *

(starting a new thread - sorry)
 
best desk on the market

Pros... The best desk on the market at around $10,000 second user
compressors expanders and gates on all channels very flexible
superb routing,(easy to set up 5.1 surround mixes) and a bang on EQ get as many channels as possible if you can find a 40 input pb you are in heaven the noise and distortion performance is excelllent and dont forget that all channels are fader automated. for a small to medium sized studio setup its perfect, giving around 88 inputs on remix. use it with either a 2" multitrack or a couple of Motu 24 i-o s or somthing similar if you have even more money choose the SSL duende's for ultimate recording with the the solitaire
make sure you get the leads with it as they might be a bit expensive.

CONS....the only thing i have heard is occasionally the PSU can go faulty but they are not expensive to repair (I heard about $100) considering the desk was around $60,000 US you are entering the real recording world good luck GM
 
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