Psy Trance track mastering help !?

E

ess765

New member
I have just finished a trance track on reason 3.0; now I need to master the track. I ve read lots of stuff from internet about eqs and compressors. I understand that each instrument will occupy frequencies and I d need to isolate the correct frequencies for each one in a way to make them not to fight for the same frequencies, so I can listen to them all together. My track uses 24 instruments (some of them will be played during almost the whole track, like the kick and bass; the other ones will come and go, like hi hats, synths, tambourines, pads, leads, percussion, snare, claps, choir, voices and others). I have some real good KRK pair of monitors. I konow I could rewire reason to another oftware such caubase and master it with vsts, but I d like to learn the best way with Reason itself. So I have some questions regarding the mastering process:
Reason has 2 kinds of eq, the simple one allows me to operate 2 freqs and the other one allows me to work on 4 freqs plus the low freq cut option. I connected the simple ones to all instruments excluding kick and bass (for those I connected the more complete eq). I ve tried cutting almost all instruments lows excluding the kick and bass (those I cutted only the real lowt freqs bellow 50hz)

1) Is it ok to use one eq for each instrument and then a general eq for the whole track?
2) Should I boost, cut frequencies or both (depending on the situation)?
3) How can I perform isolating the frequencies? Do I draw a small “V” and cut the freqs I don’t want? (let s say I have a lead synth and I need to cut freqs: in the simple eq I have 2 tools to change freqs (I can control freq, width and gain on each of those 2 tools).
4) How can I choose the freqs to be changed? Do I have to know the bass and the kick freqs and then never reapeat those in the other instruments? Can I use the same freqs from those 2 instruments on other synths?
5) What kind of general rules do I have to follow regarding the bass and the kick eqs and compression?
6) Let s say I have the open hat to eq. How do I isolate (cutting or boosting) the correct freq range? And what about the other freqs, do I cut them all or do I only boost the right ones? Do I use a wide freq range or a narrow one? How can I compare the open hat freqs to the kick, bass and other instruments freqs that will be played at the same time?
7) Let s pretend I have to instruments(I ll call them “X” and “Y”) that are in the 1000hz freq. Now I need to find and choose their freqs to make both clear when played together. So I decide to boost the “Y” freqs around 1000hz. How do I perform it? I drawn a narrow inverted V freq near the 1000hz and keep all the other freqs untouched? Or do I cut all the other freqs and keep the 1000hz ones?
8) In this link bellow you ll find a way to listen to a psy trance piece. Please tell me what kind of eq and compression setting do you imagine that were used to achieve those results regarding the kick and the bass….

Please choose to listen to the first track from this compilation . It s called Silicon tears by Sysmix. You ll listen to a small piece..

http://www.psyshop.com/shop/CDs/ppn/ppn1cd001.html

It would be nice if a master experienced guy could help me and answer each topic separately, and if possible with real examples of the procedure and I could visualize the operation…
 
First - You're talking about mixing, not mastering. That's a whole different ball game at this point.

That being said -

There are no "right" answers to your questions. I don't want to sound discouraging, but the things you're asking are things that can take years of practical experience just to grasp a basic understanding of.

1) Yes. You EQ whatever you need to EQ, and at the earilest phase (track level if at all possible - If you need EQ on the buss, you missed something ealier).

2) You do what serves the track. If you can't instinctively hear what needs to be done, that's going to be a huge problem...

3,4) Every EQ is different in its function. Read the manual for whatever you're using to find out how your particular EQ functions.

5) See "2" above.

6) See "3,4" above.

7) See "2" above.
 
Samplecraze said:
And if you do go down the route of Eqing this yourself, remember that 'cutting' is far better than 'boosting'.
Click to expand...

:cheers:

One of the best advice!

You get a cleaner image, can accentuate and put emphasis on specific ranges, etc. Better prepared for eventual master compression/eq/etc.

Close your eyes while you tweak things, LISTEN instead, and dont worry too much about the math and technical "rules" behind the sound... Some of my best results were when I did not know what frequency clashes were, and when I did not have compression, maximizers (etc)... That was years ago, but I somehow got by creating decent mixes for my compositions, on a super simple/limited Mackie mixer with my components plugged straight to it, no aux or insert effects whatsoever.

I then spent years looking at the "math" of things - some people get better when they know this stuff, I beleive I got worse. Talk about over-compressed and muddy.

I then tried to do these things as quickly as possible give yourself a time limit like "ok i have 30 minutes to make a rough mix and leave it alone until tomorrow". This helped.

Remove effects/settings from your chain if they are not trying to solve a specific problem you can clearly hear.

... and follow Samplecraze's advice :)
 
8) In this link bellow you ll find a way to listen to a psy trance piece. Please tell me what kind of eq and compression setting do you imagine that were used to achieve those results regarding the kick and the bass….

Please choose to listen to the first track from this compilation . It s called Silicon tears by Sysmix. You ll listen to a small piece..

http://www.psyshop.com/shop/CDs/ppn/ppn1cd001.html
 
Let s pretend I have one lead synth instrument. I need to make it very well dedined on the mix cause he ll be played together with the kick, bass and a pad synth. Let s pretend that my lead synth main freqs are betweem the 1000 and 1 200hz freq range.
So how do I perform it?
Should I boost a little the freqs around 1000 and 1200hz from my lead synth and keep the other instruments freqs unchanged? Or should I keep this lead synth freqs unchanged and cut those freqs on each the other instruments?
Lets talk about my drum parts. I use kick, snare, claps, tambourine and open hat to build up my beats in this track. Each one is in a diferent and independent bus in the mixer. Obviously, the tambourine + open hat + snare + claps use to be more focused on higher freqs. So how should I make them all audible? How should I choose the freqs to be isolated? Any suggestions?
Then we come to the kick and bass which use to fight on lower freqs...any tips here?
I ve read that cutting the lowest freqs is a good start (let s say I cut the tambourine + open hat + snare + claps lows. Then I would have to cut some highs from the kick and bas too? Do the high freqs from kick and bass fight against the openh hats + tamburine high freqs?
 
I think you have a few misconceptions about how EQ works and how it should be used.

Cutting the lows from snare, clap, tambourine etc.. is not advised, unless for the reasons below.. I don't know who gave you this advice, but it's not good advice.

The only time you would do this is if the frequencies really clashed.
The only other instance of using EQ in this situation would be to layer the sounds, but then to do that you can EQ any frequency desired.

For mixing purposes this is not how it works.

You need to think about the overall frequency content of your song and try to have as broad a spectrum as possible, without sounds fighting for both space and gain.

Cutting frequencies below 40-60 hZ is a practice that many perform simply because it is the frequency range that is felt and not heard, and by removing this range you can have better detail across the rest of the frequencies without the lows muddying the mix.

Cutting frequencies is about perception.

If I play two similar sounds next to each other and cut the mids of one sound, the mids of the other sound will sound clearer and better defined.
This happens because the same range of frequencies are fighting to be heard and they end up muddying that particular range, so by cutting from one you give to the other, or rather you give the perception of volume and clarity to the other.

Mano touched on using your ears.
These are your best weapons and should be the tools you use, and not some frequency chart.
Charts help to give a broader view of a range an instrument occupies. But for true EQing, you use your ears.
A spectrum analyser will show activity across the range and will show where your peaks and troughs are, but they are guides at best, and should not take the place of your ears.

Remember that phase is a byproduct of EQ and the more you boost the more phase is introduced into the signal path. This will be as crippling as having clashing frequencies.

Leave the instruments as they are till the end.
Now listen to your mix and hear and feel the frequencies. This comes with time and practice. Trust me, it will come to you.
The more you listen to well produced music, the more your ears and brain will attune themselves to what sounds 'right'.

I always advise my students to spend the first hour of their mix session listening to some well produced music of their genre. This will attune you to what should sound good.

It is also good practice to come back to your mix after a break. Most people try to write and mix at the same time.

Dont!

Write, lay it down, then go get some from your lady, or chill and watch a film etc.. Take a break.

Now, listen to your mix with these new fresh ears and decide what needs cutting.
Sometimes a simple 1dB cut on a clashing frequency will make a huge difference, so experiment.

Start by muting everything (or soloing) but the drums and bass. Sort this area out first, get the lows right, get the mids right, get the highs right for the drums. Pretend that this is your entire track and you must mix this as best as can be mixed.

Now introduce the highest frequency instruments in your track. Mix those with the drums and bass. You will find that there will be a natural frequency gap that takes up the 'mid'.
Start bringing in the broader frequency instruments that eat up the mid, low and high. Adjust till you have a decent blend between all the frequencies.

These are just techniques and some habve different ways of mixing.
Some start with the mids and build the rest around ythose frequencies. The reason for this is that the lowest and highest frequencies are the most fatiguing and will start to become irritable on their own.

Remember, small amounts of cut and one instrument at a time.
Don't try to mix with everything playing at the same time as this can be confusing at first.
When you have gained experience and a wealth of listening time, then you can mix all instruments on the fly.

Best of luck.
 
ohh Thanks Zukan...your answer was really helpfull on details to my concerns....but I believe you know both reason 3 and cubase sx..please tell me a good way to work my mix using them. Should I rewire reason to cubase and use some vsts to enhance my track? If your answer is yes, would you tell me some good plugins to work with? I have a voxengo pack, lexicon reverb, mda pack, wave reverb and yamaha final master. Do I use the reason eqs in each instrument or do I use the cubase vst plugins? And if your answer is the cubase ones, how do I add eq and compression to each bus of cubase?

Thanks you a lot for your kind support
 
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