Order of Effects?

T

toddj

New member
I am mostly interested in the order in which one should use compression and EQ. My gut instinct is that compression should always go last but would love to hear some opinions. Also, if you have any hints on orders of other effects to get interesting sounds or any no no's that would be great.

Thanks
 
Compression

What you've said sounds about right, and seems to be the general concensus also, compress last.

Don't know whether you're aware of this also, but try to compress after everything you do to your sound (EQ,FX,Volume and filters, etc), even if it's just mild, you'll notice the difference.
Just helps to keep your sound on a level, as any changes you've made usually result in extra harmonics being created that weren't there b4 u compressed.

This can be done by either just re-setting the compressor's settings each time if you only have access to 1 compressor until you're happy with what you've got, or via resampling the already compressed sound, treating it to another effect (or whatever) and then apply more compression after.

Try multiband compression also, with the threshold set at different levels.

There's a few different techniques i've realised lately that you can use, all very similar in practice, it's just the end result that's the difference, i hate to use this phrase but, 'just experiment'.

A good way to do it is to just get any sound and try different methods, i wouldn't advise trying it on one of your current tunes to start with as it might take a while to get it quite right, and obviously re-sampling is destructive.

Oh yeah, don't try to use compression to hide a bad sound either, make sure you've EQ'd it the best you can before compressing.

Hope this helps

Rich.
 
The generally accepted norm is to EQ after compression. You EQ before compression in order to tailor the way a compressor acts.
 
Thanks for the replies!

But there seems to be some disagreement on whether to comp then EQ or EQ then comp.

RobinH, could you elaborate some? How does eq shape compression? Why EQ after?

I'm also thinking that there are two issues 1) EQ/Comp of individual sounds and 2) EQ/Comp of the entire mix

Do you approach each differently?

I've been using EQ then Comp on my kick and bass with good results but have yet to play much with "mastering" any finished songs

Anyway, all opinions are apreciated!
 
Compression acts on the amplitude of a signal , so if you boost certain frequencies above the rest , its action will be tailored by those frequencies.

Compression has the effect of squashing the different frequencies together and so changes the sound. EQing after can restore the sound to its origional whilst keeping the dynamic compression intact.
 
It depends on the sound. You could even EQ before AND after if you feel like it.

Compression and EQ MP3 folder

^Click above and download the mp3 then follow along^ =)

Ok, the mp3 is of an 808 beat.

The first time the beat plays you are just hearing the dry 808 signal. No processing(except DC removal).

The second time it goes through it has Compression over it with no EQ. You can hear that when the bass hits it makes the cymbals Waiver and shake because the compressor is trying to flatten out the volume changes.

The third time it goes through it has an EQ before the compressor. I turned all the bass end up on the EQ...you can see the waveform almost turns into a Square because the compressor is limiting the output volume and trying to flatten the dynamic range again. you notice that having all that bass squished in there makes a bunch of warm distortion and the hihats get crunchy because of it. It sounds like crap.

The Final time it goes though it has the SAME EQ as the third pass but this time after the compressor. you'll notice the bass isn't squished into a square and distorted. Nor are the High hats that crunchy. BUT, the overal volume suffers because the EQ has change the dynamics once again adding more bass into the signal...it really throws it off.

These examples were pretty extreme...but that's the best way to explain it.

You have to be careful either way... See...You *Could* EQ before and after...what you could do with that is: Turn the bass down a bit before the compressor so that it doesn't mess up the hihats or get distorted...then put and EQ after to bring the lost bass back into the sound again...this would be a very clean sound but may sound different to what you want.

It's all trial and error...give and take...practice...fiddle...and tweak.
 
sorry this is a broken post...read next post
 
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Hi, what im replying is mostly rephrasing on whats been said, but if your asking about wether to eq individual instrumentss or the entire mix, then it looks like you havent set your ears to know wether youre gonna need compression on something or if everything grooves well enough to compress the whole thing.

Yes, its almost always sure i will compress my final mixdown before sending it to a mastering house, but it doesnt mean i had a compressor on my drums or vocals or a certain loop that had loud peaks that needed notching. basically it goesss like this, vocals should always be compressed. drums, most people say to compress em but i only do it if theres a need to, like if i need the whole snare and hi hats to be emphasized better or if my kick is too loud then i compress em. there are many factors that let me decide wether a compressor is needed or not. but one of the major ones is if there are huge level changes inside a major important part of the song. like if your bassline suddenly loses volume in the middle of its progressions or lines.

As for compression on the mix, i ussually compress the whole thing but only after i set each channel to a level where it only redlines maybe once or twice in the whole song period, i dont like to have a compressed sound before i master the tune, cus thats what the mastering house is for. i only set this compressor at the final stage as a way to remove those one or two peaks that cause the song to Redline (clip). Basically saying that i make sure i make my final mixdown, as sweet and nice sounding as possible rather than let some great 2000 dollar compressor fake a bad mix into a good one. it normally doesnt happen this way but i have seen some peoples terrible mixing attempts, made sound good by awesome mastering. but it goes hand in hand to have good mixdown and mastering manners.

Eq before Comp or after. i ussually do it before the comp. ideally you always will eq if you have to before comp on each separate channel. like you want your piano heavier before you mix down, youll go to the mixer and turn the bass up. but ussually while mastering, i like to eq before sending the mix to tape. Tape is a great compressor cus it just has this best warmth to it that not even some expensive compressors add. anyway i eq before the tape compression because itll make the tape react to whatever changes i make like especially in the low end. boost the 60 to 100 hz area before compression and bam suddenly youve got a woofer mover. especially for all you hip hop heads. after the tape i send it to a multiband compressor and use the separate eq bands as a sort of eq, then i send to another compressor and then i may send it thru an aural exciter but that may be enough compression. it may sound like i use a lot of compression but each compressor is light on its comprssion except for the multi band. Hope this helped a bit. your best bet is to experiment, its the only way to teach yourself how to hear if youll need a compressor or not, we can only tell you places you might look. but we all have our own tricks. you should have yours too.
 
Don't compress your mix before sending it to a mastering house. They will do a better job , but can't undo what you have done.

Don't redline digital meters. Their response is not accurate enough to meter all high frequency transients. Even if the clipping is inaudible ( which it is if it occurs less than a few ms ) , it introduces distortion and therefore high frequency artefacts. These can cloud the high freq making your mix seem less open and airy. If working at 24bit there is no reason to exceed at -15dBfs operating level. That way transients have plenty of headroom. Mixing at 16bit is abit of a different matter , but rarely is nescecary these days.

Unless you have very good ( read expensive ) DA converters and a nice 1" 2track , I would avoid going to tape for mastering. Converting from the digital domain to analogue and back again is loosing quality , even with the best converters ... and many consumer level devices are less than perfect.

If you can do it , getting the sound you want before ever converting to digital is the way to go. Creating your mix on the way in will sound better than creating it on the way out. Observe plenty of headroom , you can afford it at 24 bit , and if sending a 16 bit copy off to be mastered use good dither on the 24bit master. In an ideal world , once going into digital you never come back out. And in a perfect world no digital processing will be done to the signal after conversion. Obviously this is never the case , and it is important to use the very best converters. More important than anything else. Sounds can start to become harsh or flat after to much swapping from digital to analogue and back again.
 
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