mixing advice

kenz_music

New member
hey, Ive always known I am lacking in the mixing and mastering department of knowledge

its one of them things where I enjoy making melodies and beats so much that I havent ever gone past a basic knowledge of mixing, to my detrement. I know its amatuer, but hey, im amatuer.

anyways i had a comment on soundcloud specifically about this and its time to act

https://soundcloud.com/kenz_music/inspirationproduced-by-kenz/comment-258625323

"it is all about setting the right levels, using equalizers (EQ), bouncing it to one track and the to get the loudness out of the track (by using a limiter for example)"

I understand what this would sound like but have no idea on how to apply it

can anyone direct me to a good book/site I can read before bed every night
 
Ahhh - don't give yourself a hard time... I was exactly the same for about 10 years... It's great getting caught in the exploration... and yes - it eventually is worth making your tunes sounds good (!), and although it'll be painful at times, you'll possibly then grow to love production too (like me).

Don't stress about "mastering". Focus on mixing. There is nothing amazing you'll do to a tune with mastering... Get you mixing skills down as best as possible, and at the most - for the sake of playing out, pop a little limiting on.

As for resources... Well I'm slowly painfully self taught. Forums are good; but can be unreliable in the advice you get!... Never believe the internet until you try it and agree with it yourself ;)

I used to pop around a forum called Dance Music Production, which was a support forum for a book / tutorial series (same name). I've never read the book, or seen the tutes, but the people there were really genuine and they all swore by the book. Could be a good option? Search for "dance music production forum"...

Alternatively - you can read through forums in your own time; get to know who you can trust and who is questionable / full of sh#t...

But yeah - start with just mixing... and to be honest, just to really start off, don't even worry about EQ let alone compression. Grab your latest track; pull all of the faders down to zero. Start with the sound you think you'll probably want to be loudest (e.g. kick drum), and bring it's level up to -6dB. Then pick another sound - say the snare / clap... forget about the level you "need" - just drag the fader up while listening carefully. Drag it up until it's "just a little to loud"... then back down to "oh wait, no - too soft now"... and somewhere in there is the spot you pop it... probably close to the middle, but who cares - just use your ears! Repeat one-by-one for each track in the mix... you may need to revisit some sounds - it's all iterative like this, but using your ears it really important here!... your ears are the king of "perceiving" loudness... even if peak levels are much higher.

Then you can check each channel to see if your ears liked it a certain volume, but that was actually clipping... That's essentially the first and key reason why people use compression - to reduce the peak levelm, but keep in mind that EQ can play a huge roll in reducing volume too... but those are a whole other story... To start - while learning; just pop a limiter on any channel that clips past zero (limiter settings: 0dB threshold). This is not the right thing to do in the long run, but it'll stop your sounds distorting.

Keep mucking around for as long as you like, and just get into the right headspace - controlling / placing "level" and "percieved" volume is 90% of mixing sounds into a finished tune... Throw in "create space" (as in: left/right/forward/back) and you're done? ;)... all that can still take most of a lifetime to learn though!...
 
hey, Ive always known I am lacking in the mixing and mastering department of knowledge

its one of them things where I enjoy making melodies and beats so much that I havent ever gone past a basic knowledge of mixing, to my detrement. I know its amatuer, but hey, im amatuer.

anyways i had a comment on soundcloud specifically about this and its time to act

https://soundcloud.com/kenz_music/inspirationproduced-by-kenz/comment-258625323

"it is all about setting the right levels, using equalizers (EQ), bouncing it to one track and the to get the loudness out of the track (by using a limiter for example)"

I understand what this would sound like but have no idea on how to apply it

can anyone direct me to a good book/site I can read before bed every night

(I did not have time listening to your work, actually I don't even have to, your words tell me all I need to know.)

Look, when you have a great setup it's kind of hard to mess it up. It would be like this: Hmm.. It sounds so bass heavy and muddy, lets add some more low end. Hmm, I think there is too much dimensionality to the sound, let's try to make it a bit more 2D. Wait, the high end is too clean, clear and airy, I want it a bit more jittery.

Do you see what I mean, engineers are not stupid and that's what most home recording engineers need to understand. It's not that you are bad, it's the fact that who are listening to your music do so using crappy headphones in 128 kbit/s mp3 quality so that your music will sound like shit compared to high end commercial counterparts. It's nothing else, no magic skill sets doing magic stuff, it's just raw quality being deployed. So don't try to learn mixing and mastering, try to learn monitoring.
 
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(I did not have time listening to your work, actually I don't even have to, your words tell me all I need to know.)

Look, when you have a great setup it's kind of hard to mess it up. It would be like this: Hmm.. It sounds so bass heavy and muddy, lets add some more low end. Hmm, I think there is too much dimensionality to the sound, let's try to make it a bit more 2D. Wait, the high end is too clean, clear and airy, I want it a bit more jittery.

Do you see what I mean, engineers are not stupid and that's what most home recording engineers need to understand. It's not that you are bad, it's the fact that who are listening to your music do so using crappy headphones in 128 kbit/s mp3 quality so that your music will sound like shit compared to high end commercial counterparts. It's nothing else, no magic skill sets doing magic stuff, it's just raw quality being deployed. So don't try to learn mixing and mastering, try to learn monitoring.

i didnt get a lot of that..... it was unclear and mudddy....like a bad mix! teehee

i have krk rokit speakers. i do monitor. i monitor all day long.....at some point i have to mix otherwise im just sitting there monitoring? what do you mean by this?

when I upload my shit to soundcloud it doesnt stand out like the other tracks. doesnt sound as crisp, tight.

i just wanted to know where to start with mixing. for example: ive heard before that you should place certain effects before others, reverb last. i supose i just want a basic list of "must do" things
i always filter unecessary sound out. is the order when using compression important?

i have this book coming in the mail Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio by mike senior
 
I think the tightness of the track goes to the mastering. Usually, there's a process in mastering called "Master Compression" where the mastering engineer will compress the track to glue everything together, and then boost the volume to make it louder. That's also where over-compression comes from and it can easily make your tracks crappy if you're not careful.

Mastering however is an extremely difficult process to master. You're best off starting with mixing for now. I once got upset when I started to wonder why my tracks were really dull and not bright and crisp too, and the main reason why was because of my EQ. If you're just starting out, it's better to learn mixing before EQ. I learn extremely fast though, so unless you're quick witted, you should take your time.

When putting certain effects before others, it really depends on the type of effects you have placed. For example; it's best to not put a huge amount of reverb on one of your mixer buses before slapping a massive amount of distortion on, but I would personally put it before the EQ. The arrangement of effects really depends on what you're working with. As for mixing itself, try analyzing tracks from artists who you listen to often. Pay attention to the volume levels of certain elements in their tracks, and apply that to your tracks. That I would say was the most helpful thing for me in learning the mixing process :)

After you learn the mixing, learn about EQ. EQ can help you with mixing as it will allow you to cut out parts of sounds you don't want, so that everything doesn't sound muddy. You can cut off the low end of powerful chords with EQ so that you can layer a powerful bass underneath, and nothing sounds muddy nor sounds like they're clashing. That's a basic interpretation. It all just takes time though, so don't stress over it if you're not getting anywhere. That's the last thing you want to do lol.
 
i supose i just want a basic list of "must do" things
i always filter unecessary sound out. is the order when using compression important?

The beauty of the whole music gig, is that you get to break any rule you like… All you need to do is understand what you're doing and why (that's the hard part). But that's not very helpful from me haha… so it's good to establish a few rules of your own (that way you know when you're breaking them :)….). Here's a couple of thoughts:

EQ and Compression. Before or after? No "rules". Just keep in mind that a compressor will receive levels and react to them - this means that if you place the EQ first, then you may accidentally "trigger" the compressor because you've boosted a frequency (more common as an issue on "mixed" signals, like a drum loop… You might accidentally have you HH triggering the compressor, when you'd rather it be more about the kick/snare. For this reason a lot of people swear by EQ second. Not me. I say: EQ first to create "the sound you want" / Compress that sound / EQ second (if desired/needed) to shape the sound within the mix.

Compression / EQ in general - where? - I like to think of it like this: Sound design then sound shaping for the mix. Create the base of the sound - make the synth patch or record the whatever / add the sound design fx you want (e.g. distortion; chorus/phaser; not your dry/wet FX like verb/delay… these can be in fx sends) and then shape the "final sound" with EQ / compression. For this reason, I usually pop EQ / compression last in a chain.

Compression basics: Attack/Release - rules I use and also regularly break(?) - Low end (sub / low bass) - attack 30ms; release to suit tempo and sound, but 60ms-100 typically; low mids: attack 25ms / release twice that; high mids: Attack: 15ms / release twice; right through to very high freq control with 1ms or even less for attack… I'll still keep release at around 30ms at the lowest. Why faster and fast time the higher the frequency? Because you can! Think of BASS as BIG / LONG waves - a very fast attack on a compressor will chop into this wave, effectively distorting it (e.g. creating a click, or literally creating distortion)… therefore longer attack times are better… but very high freq? you can control super quick without screwing up a single cycle of the wave - therefore fast attack are fine.

Compression basics: Threshold / Ratio - Think this: "3:1 is f#cking heaps of compression". 1.5:1 or 2:1 is effective on most "good sounding" sounds (i.e. when you're not trying fix a problem, but rather crafting a mix). Threshold: is the trigger… A compressor waits until a sound gets to the threshold level, and then it reacts according to the compressor settings. Think about which sounds you want triggering your compressor (all (e.g. synth); or just a few (e.g. Drum Mix - kick/snare triggering); adjust so that you're just licking through the trigger area of choice. Note - 3dB reduction is a lot; 10dB reduction is freaky / sh#t loads.

EQ basics: Sweeping sounds: raising an eq up to max level and sweeping up and down the freq spectrum is a great way to identify the key areas/harmonics of a sound (they are the louder distorting resonating parts) - watch your ears though (turn down your headphones/monitors!). Once you find these, you can choose to boost them or reduce them.

EQ basics: fundamental frequencies… any sound with harmonic content has a "fundamental" frequency. This is its "lowest frequency", or at least the lowest part of the harmonic content. Low frequencies typically have more power than high frequencies and affecting this can have a huge change on the sound in a mix. If you accidentally cut the fundamental, then you may lose the power of the sound in the mix. cutting on purpose is fine - it's just good to know where this is. This idea of a fundamental means less on complex sounds (chord progression / note changing, because each different note has a different fundamental frequency) than it does simple sounds (kick / snare / single note / single chord), but it's still handy to know where a rough area of fundamentals are for complex sounds… When sweeping (above), this is the lowest loud point that distorts - mark this point on you eq for reference...

EQ basics: Cuts (HP / LP)… cuts are great. Literally cut the things a sound doesn't need - HH? You don't need Sub frequencies do you… almost definitely don't need lows / low kids right? Well cut that shit out then. You can often HP cut up to the fundamental discussed above (not the same frequency… the slope of the cutoff would affect the fundamental… just up close to so that it doesn't affect it)… Similar for LP cutting of highs - think "does this sound need high content? - e.g. SUB recorded from a hardware synth. Doesn't "need" that hiss does it? Cut...

That's probably enough for now - I actually thank YOU for this thread… I just typed my way through one hell of a hangover there ;).

Hopefully the above helps with some starting points. remember the original intent though: all rules are created to be broken.
 
wow, this information is really impressive and i appreciate it a lot. some of it is makin sense and other parts are exotic and enticing. Im very happy
to you all for this. ive found a few things to read while i wait for my book to arrive http://downloads.izotope.com/guides/iZotope-Mixing-Guide-Principles-Tips-Techniques.pdf I found that quite nice.

and I am analysing all of the information in this thread currently and if i could thank you twice i would

you lot should write a guide together, would be invaluable im sure
 
i didnt get a lot of that..... it was unclear and mudddy....like a bad mix! teehee

i have krk rokit speakers. i do monitor. i monitor all day long.....at some point i have to mix otherwise im just sitting there monitoring? what do you mean by this?

when I upload my shit to soundcloud it doesnt stand out like the other tracks. doesnt sound as crisp, tight.

i just wanted to know where to start with mixing. for example: ive heard before that you should place certain effects before others, reverb last. i supose i just want a basic list of "must do" things
i always filter unecessary sound out. is the order when using compression important?

i have this book coming in the mail Mixing Secrets for the Small Studio by mike senior

Mixing is mostly an evaluation stage, driven by the monitoring process. It is the mixing engineer's main responsibility to tell the producer and recording engineers what about it that makes it not ready for mixing. So the best mixing engineers in the world are basically top notch producers, recording and monitoring engineers that like to get great content to then put into perfect balance across and within the various music and audio dimensions. They have a great production and recording quality responsibility in that regard, because their role is kind of to be the production and recording quality insurance. When that is achieved, their first and primary skills within the actual mixing process, is the monitoring process, followed by knowing what type of gear applied in what way will add to the original sound sources and what will remove from the original sound sources. They don't sit tweaking tracks with plugins for hours like the amateurs do, they focus on what type of character they want to add to the various tracks, typically hardware 1176s, distressors and so on. It is a very raw deployment of great characters to already great sounds. The mix balancing is kind of just a product of their monitoring process. The rest is basically automation and a major part of that is the panning process.
 
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Can't read everything here, could be already mentioned.

You should never solo something and EQ it IMO. You should EQing the sound in context with the track. Not on its own.

When I learned this, my mixes vastly improved.
 
Can't read everything here, could be already mentioned.

You should never solo something and EQ it IMO. You should EQing the sound in context with the track. Not on its own.

When I learned this, my mixes vastly improved.

I'm afraid I don't fully agree. When you receive content for mixing, you should not have to make tons of EQ moves, if you need to, it's your responsibility to send it back to production and recording, because you are the quality insurance. At the same time it's your task to improve the sound even more and that you must initially do in solo, using a better monitoring process than what was used during production and recording. If you omit this process and jump straight on the context mixing, it means that you have never been aware of how great each sound source can sound when made optimal in solo and without distracting frequencies, hence you are not aware of how great the sound sources are when they are in the context, because you have no reference of that. For this reason, it is optimal to default each sound source in solo first, so that the brain can register what the context takes away from each sound source. Then when you start mixing in context, it is good to first look for ways to undo some of the tunings done in solo and when that has been done, it is finally good to add or remove frequencies that makes it better sounding in the context.

Also remember that some qualities about the sound sources you cannot hear in the context. For instance you cannot easily hear various parts of the frequency range having become dynamically congested on various sound sources and you cannot hear the difference between having resolved those things on each sound source in solo prior to combining them and not having done so. Again you are left without a reference point and hence you are doing stuff to the content you would not have done had you been aware of the underlying potential. For this reason you must become aware of what the potential of each sound source is in solo in regards to all of the quality dimensions. Once that awareness has been set, then you are ready to move to mixing because at that point you better understand what the context does to the quality dimensions of each sound source.

Beyond this, some engineers like me, use effects not only to improve the quality of the sounds, but instead the opposite - to mess up the quality. And that I want to also do in solo. If I know I have awesome incoming frequencies, in other words if I know that the production and recording is ready for mixing, then the first thing I do is to mess up the frequencies on purpose as early as possible. This might seem counter intuitive, but it's the only way of understanding how bad it won't sound in the final product and if that sound is awesome it means that I have a whole bunch of stuff I can remove when I think the mix sounds perfect to be able to take the mix to an even higher quality level. This technique I also do to push a mix back to production and recording, because if I find it sounds good in the original, but it does not sound as good as it usually does when I've messed it up, then maybe the original frequencies are a bit worse than I originally thought. So this pushes towards better quality sooner, which also means better quality left in the final. Plugins mess up the sound, hardware heals the sound, so that's useful...

BTW. when I solo I do it in all modes, not only in stereo, the same when I mix in the context. Some times some sound sources might be dynamically congested only on one of the speakers, then it's damaging to the sound on the other speaker to apply the same correction there.
 
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theres some great knowledge in here. after reading this thread and conducting my own research i feel much more comfortable. i have foam and speaker stands coming, im an amatuer, stop busting my balls!
 
just as a follow up to this thread
ive now got the speaker stands and have placed foam tiles on the walls and am really happy with the results. would recommend this to anyone in my position as a MUST do, no ifs or buts.

cheers
 
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