Mastering - beat and then final mix?

belizeño

belizeño

Active member
i was wondering, as a producer/rapper.. i wanted to know if u guys usually master your beat mixdown first, then when u lay down vocals u master again? or simply mixdown the beat, lay down vocals and then work on a final master based on that. i know the question is a bit vague.. but its as best as i can word it.

thanks

 
belizeño said:
i was wondering, as a producer/rapper.. i wanted to know if u guys usually master your beat mixdown first, then when u lay down vocals u master again? or simply mixdown the beat, lay down vocals and then work on a final master based on that. i know the question is a bit vague.. but its as best as i can word it.

thanks
Click to expand...

that is not a vague question.

You should not have your beat mastered then put a vocal on top then master again.

Your vocal is an instrument which is part of your track. Think of it like any other lead instrument. you wouldn't have a song mastered then put a guitar solo on top of it then master it again, would you? No.

Your vocal and your beat are not 2 separate things. They are 2 parts of the same thing.

Your vocal needs to be mixed in as part of the song. It is not just an afterthought you throw on at the end.

Mastering is the absolute final thing you do to a song. You do not do it more than once.

When you mix a vocal into a track, you will need to account for this other "instrument" in your mix. This means you may have to lower other instruments or adjust EQ or compression or effects of other instruments to allow room for the vocal in the mix.

You need to mix everything together
 
Mastering your beat

I would tend to disagree with the above statement. In a situation where you are adding a vocal track to a "tracked out" beat, or one that you have just created, then yes mastering would be the last step.

For a lot of rappers, that is not how things are usually done though. Most rappers come into our studio with a beat that they want to rap over. The beat is not typically "tracked out" and is simply a .wav or .mp3 file on a cd. These beats often sound muddy, tinny, or otherwise unimpressive. If we waited to master until after the vocals were recorded we would be limited in what we could do to the completed song because most plugins and effects will affect the vocal differently than they will the beat itself.

We had one the other night that sounded very distorted when it came through the monitors. We did our thing, mastered the existing beat and brought out what we counted as 3 different synthesizer tracks that couldn't otherwise be heard.

If you are a producer, who simply wants to make beats and sell or lease them, then mastering is an absolute must! You want your track to pop out when someone listens to it, a properly mastered and EQ'd beat will do that--while one that is a simple mix will not. This gives you an obvious competitive advantage over other beats that are offered for sale or lease.

It's also always recommended to have someone else master your mixes. Professional studios like ours often do this for producers or artists who record in home studios. This is often a cost effective method to obtain that professional sound without spending the big bucks that come along with full tracking in a big studio.

If you, or anyone else, has any questions about this feel free to contact us at pravarecordings@gmail.com. We're happy to help.
 
^^^Not disagreeing, just wondering why you wouldn't mix the beat as a stereo track while mixing the vocals over the top of it?

Why dedicate that time to "mastering" only the beat to turn around and have to match it with vocals again after being done rather than fixing everything in one session?
 
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deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
^^^Not disagreeing, just wondering why you wouldn't mix the beat as a stereo track while mixing the vocals over the top of it?

Why dedicate that time to "mastering" only the beat to turn around and have to match it with vocals again after being done rather than fixing everything in one session?
Click to expand...

We do it first because it often changes the dynamic of the song. Sometimes it doesn't do all that much--if the original mix is great to begin with. More often than not there are tracks that have been lost in the original mix that come out during the "remastering". Melodies can show up that weren't previously noticeable, the bass hits harder etc.

Additionally, hearing the improved sound of the beat usually leads to a lot of excitement on the part of the rapper, this creates a lot of energy that will show in their performance.

From a time only standpoint, you're right. There's no reason that you absolutely must do the stereo mix/master first, but we think it's a good idea to show a performer what their instrumental track will sound like before they start laying vocals down.
 
hmmm, that sounds alot like remixing more than mastering, but yeah i agree that a mastered beat for the mc to rhyme over is always better. when i send out instrumentals, they're always "mastered", but thats for the benefit of the mc's writing not final mixdown.

since the OP sounds like he has his own beats, or atleast has it tracked out, I would mixdown the vox and instrumental,... as said above, your vocals are an instrument that is integral to the overall composition, and to make them gel they need to be mixed together, they need to intereact with all the other elements in the track.

OP, if you think you or your mc's will rhyme better, or write better, or get more excited with a mastered beat then by all means master it. it saves you the hassle of mc's asking if its mastered when they dont know shit, or asking you "can you make it louder" blah blah blah.

your goal is getting a good performance, and if thats what you need to do then do it.

but i would then take your recorded vocals and mix it down with the unmastered track.
 
Many people "master" beats, but this should be used for demoing for sale, writting, or listening situations. You should not "master" a beat and then record vocals on it.

When I make a beat tape I master all the beats and bounce then burn on cd. Then when I'm going to record vocals on it I bounce down the beat without any compression and lay down the vocals. Then I bounce down only the vocal bus and drop that in the beat project. Mix accordingly and then master for a final mix. This keeps your projects organized, is easier on your computer processing, and gives the same professional results as having everything tracked out together. I much prefer this method.

You will run into problems if you record vocals over a mastered beat. Period. You loose dynamics and have less mixing choices.

Also another tip. Always create a radio clean edit, show version, and a final album version on mix down. This makes it not necessary to recall projects over and over when you need it. Then when the song is finished do a audit of unused audio files in your project and burn the remaining files to a dvd for storage. This is how all the big studios do it. Free's up harddrive space and makes sure you don't loose anything due to harddrive failure.
 
hey everyone.

Thanks for the input, i understand all views. It seems to me in essence, that for rap.hip-hop its different than for most other genres, especially for those that lay out each instrument live.. is it safe to say then.. that if you get a beat from another producer, for recording.. to ask for it "unmastered"?
 
I need to start by pointing out that what we are talking about is absolutely no different for rap/hip hop thanfor any other genre...

What you are talking about is really still "mixing"...

Peoples misunderstanding of the term "mastering" is really starting to work against you...

Just because "mastering" includes using compression and eq does not mean you are "mastering" every time you apply these processes (i.e., "should I master my vocals?", "should I master my beat before I put the vocals on it?", etc)

just because you put a compressor over you master bus when you mix, doesn't mean you are "mastering", too...

If you are making a beat and you are ready to put vocals on it, think of the vocals simply like another instrument in you mix-- because that is exactly what it is.


If you got a beat from someone else and it sounds dull and lifeless and you can't hear certain instruments-- that means the beat was not "mixed" very well (or at least not to your personal tastes)... If a beat is mixed well, you would not have problems like this...

When you have this beat in your sequence and you are applying eq or compression to it (or whatever) to make it work the way you want it to, you are really "mixing" it into your song... Just like how if you are using a sample from a record/CD and you eq it or compress it so it works better, you are "mixing" your song-- not "mastering" the sample.

Just because you are applying eq or compression to multiple tracks, it doesn't mean you are "mastering"... Like if you grouped all your drums together or all your vocals or all your synths and applied eq/compression to the group, you are not "mastering" those elements.


"mastering" is the final process applied to a completed production.


If you are in the business of "making beats", then the "beat" is your[\I] final stage so it is understandable that the question of "mastering" would come up in your mind...

Well, you want your beat to sound as good as possible, but this really comes from making a good "mix"...

I understand that most of you are not good mixers yet, so you apply a "mastering plugin" in an attempt to make it sound better, but your mix should really be doing that.

It is ok to apply eq/compression to your beat, but I would advise against doing too much of that otherwise you will be tyingthe hands of the person you are giving your beat to...


Anyway, back to my earlier point...

When you eq/compress a beat that you are using in your track to simg/rap over, what you are doing is mixing that beat into your track... Not mastering the beat.
 
^^^Yeah, that's what had me confused by statements. I realized I was thinking too hard. I guess all my beats are "mastered" too.
 
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dvyce said:
"mastering" is the final process applied to a completed production...

...When you eq/compress a beat that you are using in your track to simg/rap over, what you are doing is mixing that beat into your track... Not mastering the beat.
Click to expand...

I can't tell it better.
 
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