Limiters on Rap Vocals??

i never use a limiter until I'm at the final stage of a mix/mastering job where I'm achieving the loudness of the song. if you're using a limiter during the tracking or recording stage. you're tracking way too hot...
 
I have used limiters on individual tracks on ocassions. Not to limit the tracks because they were too loud but because they happened to be the compressors that sounded like what I wanted. So yes, but not for the limiting necessarily.
 
sleepy said:
I have used limiters on individual tracks on ocassions. Not to limit the tracks because they were too loud but because they happened to be the compressors that sounded like what I wanted. So yes, but not for the limiting necessarily.
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YEP! I feel you. I tried it the other day and it sounded great on this particular vocal. I was just curious if anyone experimented with this.

HOT? ...never that!!! :cool:
 
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i occasionaly use a limiter but really if not for color i dont see the point since your not limited to 16bit recording and adat machines anymore.
 
Limiting rap vocals during tracking is just plain wrong.

Compression is different if used to control dynamic madness, but limiting is simply working off an infinite ratio with a fast attack time and a high threshold......not exactly helpful for vocals.
 
^^^On the contrary. Rap is an unorthodox feild of music. I would agree if we were talking pop, rnb, ect. But a hip hop vocal can be taken in so many directions. Matter of fact even in other genres, think hardware. There are compressor/limiters and amp/limiters used for vocals as well as mastering.

There is no "wrong" thing to do in music as long as the end result sounds good.
 
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
^^^On the contrary. Rap is an unorthodox feild of music.
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Nothing to do with the technical aspect of the hardware or software being used.

Rap is no more unorthodox than Tibetan chanting or Prog rock. They are both treated by the same equipment and only the methodology changes.

deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
There is no "wrong" thing to do in music as long as the end result sounds good.
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Indeed, but technically there are some things that can be used that afford a better end result than another.

There are many 'wrong' ways of doing things in music and this is often reflected by the end result.

For example, we do not use a condenser mic on stage with a rock metal singer that screams into the mic.
Why?
You could say that he could keep it a metre away and sing delicately etc....
But that belies the whole process of knowing what works best in what situation.
In this instance a dynamic mic might be far better suited.
Both could work but one would be the most sensible approach offering the better end result than the other.

The 'there are no rules' analogy only applies to methodology and not the technical aspect of this industry.
 
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I will limit just slightly sometimes when I track so that I can avoide clipping if I have an MC that is all over the place.
 
I record rap vocals all day & to tell you the truth I would not recommend limiters. yes with compression. the limiter will take the life out of it, but then agian it all depends on the music. 90% of the time I would say no limiters
 
it would be a better idea to compress the vocals like a limiter would do, but with 2-10 ms attack.

that means:

- a small, but not zero attack.
- a high ratio, 10:1 or more.
- set the release in automatic mode or set the release short when only having short occasional gain reduction peaks (20 - 100ms) and set it longer (100-500ms) when the gain reduction happens more than ~20% of the time.

take care to avoid any constant gain reduction, alway let the gain reduction jump back to zero. otherwise you'll most probably hear ugly compression side-effects (it will not only pump like hell, it will distort low frequencies).

by the way, that is a very typical vocal compression setting IMO (not only rap).

that technique might be healthier and more flexible than simple limiting. and you have the option to use a soft-knee, sidechain EQ or dry/wet feature often found on compressors, but never on dedicated limiters.
 
Samplecraze said:
Nothing to do with the technical aspect of the hardware or software being used.

Rap is no more unorthodox than Tibetan chanting or Prog rock. They are both treated by the same equipment and only the methodology changes.



Indeed, but technically there are some things that can be used that afford a better end result than another.

There are many 'wrong' ways of doing things in music and this is often reflected by the end result.

For example, we do not use a condenser mic on stage with a rock metal singer that screams into the mic.
Why?
You could say that he could keep it a metre away and sing delicately etc....
But that belies the whole process of knowing what works best in what situation.
In this instance a dynamic mic might be far better suited.
Both could work but one would be the most sensible approach offering the better end result than the other.

The 'there are no rules' analogy only applies to methodology and not the technical aspect of this industry.
Click to expand...
For the sake of not confusing people in this thread, I can agree with that. But you and I both know, and experienced engineer can make a limiter work on vocals just as easily as they can make a condenser mic work live on a stage, or a handheld work in a studio.

So I should've said, "If you know what you're doing, no rules apply".
 
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
"If you know what you're doing, no rules apply".
Click to expand...

Experimentation can have results you never thought of. This all happened cause I clicked on the wrong plug-in while answering my phone and decided to roll with it.
 
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
For the sake of not confusing people in this thread, I can agree with that. But you and I both know, and experienced engineer can make a limiter work on vocals just as easily as they can make a condenser mic work live on a stage, or a handheld work in a studio.

So I should've said, "If you know what you're doing, no rules apply".
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I hear you deranged and not trying to have an argument but what you are saying is fine only if it HAS to be done.

Of course an engineer can make a condenser work if he has to, but 9/10 times he wouldn't want to have to.

Selecting the right tool with the right properties from the start eliminates having to perform 'corrective' engineering, ie correcting problems resulted from poor technique and choice of tools.

All I am saying is that why go through such pain and hassle when the right tool is available that not only does the job better but was originally built for exactly this type of job?
 
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