Leveling/gainstaging questions

[GFunkEra408]

I’m having trouble understanding why all my channel strips are at healthy levels (peaking about 10db at the loudest instrument) however my master is either about a few dB away from clipping or it is clipping? Is this do to just the accumulative instruments and their volumes playing together, or is it something to do with the actual sample I’m using? I’m having to turn my faders down really low, and I heard it’s better to keep them closer to zero for more control.


Also when I input my sounds into my daw some levels are ridiculously hot already, even if I pull down my fader really low it hardly has any impact on the levels of that particular track.


anyone have any ideas?

 

[rhythmgj]

You usually need much less line-level input than you think. Microphone input is different. But you may be setting up for overdrive from the get go. Remember how guitarists get distortion-- they crank an input volume. Then they adjust an output volume to taste; sometimes dialing way back, but it doesn't matter, the input is already maxed. Your mix should be staged with lower input levels (usually, if they are already line level), and then adjust output volume as necessary. in other words like this-- < , rather than this-- > , if that makes sense.

Also, don't forget the difference between analog and digital signals, that may be at play in your situation:


dbu to dbfs - Gearslutz


GJ

 

[GFunkEra408]

You usually need much less line-level input than you think. Microphone input is different. But you may be setting up for overdrive from the get go. Remember how guitarists get distortion-- they crank an input volume. Then they adjust an output volume to taste; sometimes dialing way back, but it doesn't matter, the input is already maxed. Your mix should be staged with lower input levels (usually, if they are already line level), and then adjust output volume as necessary. in other words like this-- < , rather than this-- > , if that makes sense.

Also, don't forget the difference between analog and digital signals, that may be at play in your situation:


dbu to dbfs - Gearslutz


GJ

I don't think I follow. I'm going to just take a wild guess. Should I be mixing in pre-fader is this what i'm possibly doing wrong when you refer to analog to digital?

I'm just having two issues that i'm trying to understand.

One of the is that I'm using a lot of samples for hip hop and when I put these samples in that are already hot as hell, and when moving the fader the signal does really budge unless I'm pushing the fader all the way down.

Also I want to approach my mix conservatively to get head room. I've noticed on a few mixes that I clip gain everything so nothing is past 10-12DB on any given channel; however my master is near clipping? I'm assuming there's something in the signal chain that needs to be lowered in output..Possibly a plug-in that i'm using? What I remember is I didn't have any plug-ins set yet and it was just the channels all leveled.

 

[Nytshade]

You need to get the right levels from the source. If it's samples then get the right levels using pre-fader or clip gain. The ENTIRE MIX (loudest part of the song) needs to be peaking at -12dB before doing any processing not individual channels peaking at -12dB, that's how you avoid clipping.

Does that answer your question?

 

[GFunkEra408]

You need to get the right levels from the source. If it's samples then get the right levels using pre-fader or clip gain. The ENTIRE MIX (loudest part of the song) needs to be peaking at -12dB before doing any processing not individual channels peaking at -12dB, that's how you avoid clipping.

Does that answer your question?

Yes this helps a lot and I thank you. Ill try to kind of ignore the indivual channels more and just make sure my master is peaking at the desired headroom level. I feel like I’m scratching the surface and I will progress a lot once I understand some of these basic things.

Maybe I should have asked this first though. Should I be mixing in pre-fader monitoring? I’m using nothing but samples for my beats, and only thing recorded are my vocals. Either way imma have to read up on it.

 

[Nytshade]

Yes this helps a lot and I thank you. Ill try to kind of ignore the indivual channels more and just make sure my master is peaking at the desired headroom level.

Cool, I'm glad I could help.

Maybe I should have asked this first though. Should I be mixing in pre-fader monitoring? I’m using nothing but samples for my beats, and only thing recorded are my vocals. Either way imma have to read up on it.

I'm assuming that you mean pre-fader "Metering". This is just a matter of preference but I use pre-fader metering and most people I know and respect use pre-fader metering.

 

[GFunkEra408]

I'm assuming that you mean pre-fader "Metering". This is just a matter of preference but I use pre-fader metering and most people I know and respect use pre-fader metering.

Yeah that’s what I meant. Cool good looking out. I’ll run with that then.

 

[GFunkEra408]

Cool, I'm glad I could help.



I'm assuming that you mean pre-fader "Metering". This is just a matter of preference but I use pre-fader metering and most people I know and respect use pre-fader metering.

Yo man. I got everything gain staged properly across my mix and yadda yadda ... all my faders are at zero. I see now that I can push my faders up now and the sound will get louder but the level will remain the same as I gainstaged it and my head room on the master bus is awesome. Am I on the right path?

The reason I ask is because I’ve been taught to keep my faders at zero and don’t push them any higher than that ... maybe I miss understood, but since I’ve been doing just that my mixes just don’t get up there to compete. So I’d like to know your thoughts on this.

Thanks brotha

 

[Nytshade]

Yo man. I got everything gain staged properly across my mix and yadda yadda ... all my faders are at zero. I see now that I can push my faders up now and the sound will get louder but the level will remain the same as I gainstaged it and my head room on the master bus is awesome. Am I on the right path?

Yes you're definitely on the right track.

The reason I ask is because I’ve been taught to keep my faders at zero and don’t push them any higher than that ... maybe I miss understood, but since I’ve been doing just that my mixes just don’t get up there to compete. So I’d like to know your thoughts on this.

Thanks brotha

Your master channel is the one that has to stay at zero. For the individual channels you can do whatever you want, it's just a good rule to keep them at zero that will help you to avoid clipping. You can also use a gain plugin to increase volume if you don't want your fader to go above zero or simply increase your pre-fader (clip gain). But if you use the pre-fader and have compressed that sound make sure to re-adjust your compressor settings.

Just use a gain plugin to increase volume on your individual channels, that's the easiest way. Make sure the gain plugin comes after the compressor. Now since your faders are at zero on all channels then you can use your faders for decreasing volume across your individual channels.

Your mix doesn't have to compete, only your mastered song has to compete. A song is made loud during the mastering stage but not in the mixing stage. You can add a limiter/maximizer on the master channel just to get a feel of how the final master will sound but you must remove that before sending it for mastering.

Hope that's not too complicated to understand, I tried to simplify it as much as I can.

 

[GFunkEra408]

Yo Joe Brogan I appreciate the advice even it’s something as simple as basic as this leveling and such. I get a little obsessed if I feel like I’m not getting something.

Thanks again

 

[Alan Farias]

Thanks!!

 

[GSol the Producer]

I’m having trouble understanding why all my channel strips are at healthy levels (peaking about 10db at the loudest instrument) however my master is either about a few dB away from clipping or it is clipping? Is this do to just the accumulative instruments and their volumes playing together, or is it something to do with the actual sample I’m using? I’m having to turn my faders down really low, and I heard it’s better to keep them closer to zero for more control.


Also when I input my sounds into my daw some levels are ridiculously hot already, even if I pull down my fader really low it hardly has any impact on the levels of that particular track.


anyone have any ideas?

Q1. Answer: Yes. The master level is the accumulative level of all individual tracks summed together.
Q2. Answer: Either that input is incredibly way too loud or I would check the transient peaks of the signal. Try -30db pad plus a Limiter



GSol Production - Christian Gospel Music Producer in Burbank & Los Angeles

 

[GFunkEra408]

Thanks for the input.

My problem is I was being to technical with it. I’ve found that when I mix into a compressor, VCC or tape machine that I don’t have this issue. I was just having a hard time understanding why all my levels would be healthy, and balanced, but my the stereo bus would be running hot most of the time. I know it’s not rocket science and shouldn’t get hung up on the whole gaing staging soap box but With experience I’m starting to get it now.

 

[ProducerJC]

I don't think I follow. I'm going to just take a wild guess. Should I be mixing in pre-fader is this what i'm possibly doing wrong when you refer to analog to digital?

You should be using your ears instead of looking at fader positions on your board. Your master fader really shouldn't move from unity much, if any. Yes your master fader is the a representation of your overall sound. You should beware of the headroom you allow for your mix. Control headroom from your preamp gain 1st, just bring you volume into the green on your mixer. If the volume in your control room is too low, turn is at the monitor level. All of your levels should stay in the green throughout your mix if you're able to follow these instruction. We can troll more if you're unclear at all, I'm bored and looking or a good thread to troll through.

I'm just having two issues that i'm trying to understand.

One of the is that I'm using a lot of samples for hip hop and when I put these samples in that are already hot as hell, and when moving the fader the signal does really budge unless I'm pushing the fader all the way down.

If you're work with mastered samples, they are going to be hot, you'll need to turn down as low as it takes to make room to add more content. This is relatively normal, the only way around it is to chooses the right samples. It was recorded, mixed before you had the sample, there isn't much you can do except for work with it.

Also I want to approach my mix conservatively to get head room. I've noticed on a few mixes that I clip gain everything so nothing is past 10-12DB on any given channel; however my master is near clipping? I'm assuming there's something in the signal chain that needs to be lowered in output..Possibly a plug-in that i'm using? What I remember is I didn't have any plug-ins set yet and it was just the channels all leveled.

Then continue being conservative, since that what you prefer. Don't be afraid of changing up your approach at the same time. Check your DB pad, compressor and EQ settings. Make sure you're not routing audio through a bus or matrix. If you have DCA groups, check those too. If none of those are being used then the solutions lies in our previous advice. Start from scratch if you can.

 

[klimbo]

You should be using your ears instead of looking at fader positions on your board. Your master fader really shouldn't move from unity much, if any. Yes your master fader is the a representation of your overall sound. You should beware of the headroom you allow for your mix. Control headroom from your preamp gain 1st, just bring you volume into the green on your mixer. If the volume in your control room is too low, turn is at the monitor level. All of your levels should stay in the green throughout your mix if you're able to follow these instruction. We can troll more if you're unclear at all, Bluestacks Kodi Lucky Patcher I'm bored and looking or a good thread to troll through.



If you're work with mastered samples, they are going to be hot, you'll need to turn down as low as it takes to make room to add more content. This is relatively normal, the only way around it is to chooses the right samples. It was recorded, mixed before you had the sample, there isn't much you can do except for work with it.



Then continue being conservative, since that what you prefer. Don't be afraid of changing up your approach at the same time. Check your DB pad, compressor and EQ settings. Make sure you're not routing audio through a bus or matrix. Bluestacks Kodi Lucky Patcher If you have DCA groups, check those too. If none of those are being used then the solutions lies in our previous advice. Start from scratch if you can.

but there is a problem i think you just forget it