I need advice on where to properly learn mixing/mastering

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marcusjt

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Hello everyone! I find that the thing I struggle the most with is the mixing and mastering of a track. I have been looking a lot and haven't really found any great series of tutorials or whatever on how to learn it.

What I really am after learning is how to approach for instance a mix. Where do I start, what steps do I go through in the process and how do I evaluate what needs to be applied? All the tutorials and such that I can seem to find is usually just some random guy sitting there and for instance mixing a track, like "yeah I put a compressor on this blabla", but he doesn't really explain how you could apply these skills to any track, like what steps to follow like i mentioned.

So if anyone know of any great tutorials or other places/ways to learn how to properly go through a track and mix/master it (I am especially interested in the mixing part), then I would truly appreciate your reply.

Also if you personally have some great tips on how you go through a track and mix/master it, I would appreciate if you would like to share that as well.

Thank you in advance!
 
Google Pensado's Place for some decent mixing podcast and Square Cad podcast for mastering podcast.

Mixing and mastering are quite different so it might be best to concentrate on one over the other. gl
 
Thanks for the reply! I am very much aware of their differences but I intend to learn them both. However as I mentioned, mixing is the first priority here.

Will definitely check out the podcasts!
 
First of all go study mixing 1st, then mastering. There are two exceptions to studying mastering 1st before mixing:

1st If you really need to master a set of songs now, as in your friend or maybe you made an EP or album and you really need the mastering done, by all means go do the best you can and self-study mastering.

2nd Unless you're going to specifically enroll on a mastering course and want to eventually work as a mastering engineer, stick to mixing 1st.


NOW If what you mean is the "workflow" on mixing, as in the order of what you should do, that can be, for the most part subjective.
Sometimes, For me personally it slightly differs per song/track as I do my own synthesis and sound design as well.

There is a rule of thumb, which I personally almost always, but not ultimately adhere to. This is going to VERY VAGUE and again there are times I do change the order of this in a course of a mix. This workflow is assuming that you've got all the sounds you like in place and you're done with the production stage of your track (creative use of effects to achieve the sounds you want/sound design).


Generally I do things in this order:

1. GAIN STAGING - nothing else to use but the faders in you DAW. Set the levels of your tracks to your liking, balance is what you should be after here. (while avoiding any clipping)

2. BUSSING/GROUPING - Group tracks into buses like drums, basses, High freq sounds etc. This is not necessary but it makes life a lot easier and If you've already done this in the production phase before gain staging, that's fine.

3. HP/LP FILTERING - this is a personal technique of mine. I prefer to place a dedicated HP/LP filter to individual tracks and use it accordingly before any other effects, trust me it's better this way.

4. COMPRESSION - Determine which tracks actually NEED Compression. Not all tracks need compression. The tracks that already sound consistently [dynamically] good to you, no longer need compression and again by this stage, you should be done with using compression creatively or for sound design.

5. EQ - like with compression not all tracks actually need it but with EQ 90% of the time they do. Your goal here is to determine the important characteristics of each track and making space for them in the mix. Like for example, doing a high shelf cut on the piano track to make space for the hi-hats and conversely cutting 500-600hz on the hi-hats to make a little bit of space for the piano. Then boost the main characteristics of each track IF NEEDED. I suggest doing cuts 1st before any boosts.

6. DO YOU PANNING - this is when you decide with elements of the song will be panned left or right.

7. OTHERS - This part is usually where I determine what tracks need gating, reverb, Multiband compression, Dynamic EQ, saturation, some more stereo manipulation, checking the Sum and difference (MID/SIDE), noticeable phase issues, etc.. This is mostly the corrective part of mixing rather than "sweetening". This is more advanced stuff that I can't go any deeper because it will make this reply more irritatingly longer than it already is :D

8. 0 DB - This is a personal thing. I know I said in gain staging that you should avoid clipping but some times after all the mixing, you can go well under 0 DB. So what I like to do is loop the song at its loudest part and just adjust the volume fader where it hits exactly 0 DB. This can get tricky and you won't always get it 100% right. If this just confuses you just make sure on the master fader NEVER goes beyond 0 DB. Almost always its better to be under 0 DB in mixing, but not to the point that it's too quiet.

AGAIN this is all fluid and not set in stone. Also I don't want to talk about the order of the plugins (eq before comp & vice verse) as this is really different for every track on every song. Things like these are easily googled.

1 TIP & A TRICK:
Let you ears rest at least every 30 min. Let your ears decompress, take adequate breaks.
Use commercial professionally mixed & mastered track as reference as much as you can. (but not to the point that you use it every step of the way or if it slows you down.)


IMPORTANT NOTE:
I mentioned my workflow because I assume that you already know, in general, how the tools work and how to use them (EQ, compression etc.). If that is so then I just have my workflow as an example in the hopes that you can build your own workflow as well.
How well you do each stage in mixing really depends on your knowledge on how and when to you use your tools, how trained your ears are, how familiar you are with you listening equipment, and ultimately practice and experience. Again I'm sorry if this is somewhat vague advice.

If you are still confused with how and when to use the tools, the best advice I can give you is KEEP GOOGLING AND REVIEWING.
Google, read, study and absorb everything you can. I won't give you details as there are a ton of materials out on the web.

JUST BE AS INQUISITIVE AS YOU CAN. If there's a word or phrase in what you're reading that you don't understand or catches your attention, GOOGLE IT! No matter how weird your questions are GOOGLE IT! Personally I spent my High School and early college days with this general idea as my pastime and procrastination, just googling stuff.


AS for the sources here are the best and most organized ones:

therecordingrevolution.com also look at Youtube check out the playlists on that channel.
Joe Gilder on Youtube again just look at the playlist on that channel
SoundonSound.com
Musicradar.com

If you find that you lack some tools, check out the free stuff mentioned on Bedroomproducers.com

If it's added knowledge you're after, just keep searching stuff you don't know yet.


Honestly if the linked soundcloud track (To The Other Side) was mixed entirely by you and you could actually say that you genuinely knew what you we're doing the entire time, as opposed to just "sometimes-fiddling-around-til-it-sounds-good" you're actually 70-80% there skill wise. Now unless you're passion is really the art of mixing, then by all means keep self-studying/searching as hard as youcan, BUT if you're partly a musician, composer, producer, songwriter etc., I suggest you slow down on searching/self-studying. You're better off focusing on making more music than loosing more of your time studying the technical things like mixing and mastering.


IF you are a musician, composer etc., then what I do encourage is to study is music theory, arrangement, forms & Analysis, songwriting and the like.

I know this has been said at least a thousand times already but it bears repeating: I'd rather listen to a good/great song that was mixed "okay" than a crappy song that was exceptionally mixed and mastered.

If your song's main asset is the way it's mixed and mastered, you might get a shot on having a job as a mixing/mastering engineer.
If your song's main asset it the song itself, you might get a shot on getting a record deal.

Assuming that you're in a home Studio type setup, in my opinion you're pretty much good to go mixing wise (unless you're aiming for the big leagues as a mixing engineer).



PS I have to much free time right now. :P
 
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CmRob mentioned a lot of import stuff, thanks CmRob for that great help!

Let me give you an example of the complexity of mixing. You know that hi pass filtering is used to heighten the sound of the mix, right? Now, when you get resonance at the crossover frequency, what do you do, you keep raising the cutoff point to get rid of the noise. Big mistake. That is the type of issues mixing engineers are dealing with, the issues are fairly complex, the mistakes are fairly difficult to isolate, hence the reason why you feel like you do.

I think that it will work the best if you focus on gear primarily and skills secondarily, many do it the other way around because they are stubborn. Make your gear teach you how to be a good engineer and do it like how I did it, I learned how to cook great tasting food, I had an open minded technical mind set and I delved passionately and creatively into it.
 
Wow, CmRob! I never expected such a long, in-depth reply! Thank you very, very much for that. The stuff you said about workflow and such will probably extremely helpful to me.

If you intended to ask if I was familiar with all the tools the mentioned, the answer is yes. The track in my signature was also produced and mixed entirely by myself, yes. And I am indeed more focused on the musical/creative part of the production, the sound design and composition etc. However, I really would like to know mixing and mastering on a decent enough level for my tracks to not be "noticably bad" in terms of it. Because that is an issue I have had when for instance trying to send my stuff places (to small promoters etc) that they liked the track, but my mixdown needed improvement. Even though I find the creative process more interesting, I would like to try and be as technical as I can in addition to that.

And I am currently doing some sort of mixing myself, cutting out some frequencies here and there, boosting a few things and that sort of stuff, and I have become a lot better than I was a little while ago. But as far as the mixing goes, the EQing and gain levels is almost where it stops for me. I have little to no clue where to really put for instance a compressor, although I sometimes do it on like a huge lead or something for some gain, or for sidechain compression on a bass or something. So that is something I really feel clueless about: how do I determine whether or not to put a compressor on a single track in the mixdown stage?

As far as the mastering goes, what I have been doing is just adding a little exciter, a slight stereo-spread, a small bit of EQ, a multiband compressor and a limiter in order to try and push the actual and perceived loudness and such. But I am not very technical at all with these tools, I understand how they work and what they do but I am not the best at evaluating how much I need of the different settings on a given track.

I liked your tip about resting the ears, I think that could be a really useful idea for these kind of things, as I might be guilty of sitting in slightly too long sessions without breaks when I am working on something I am passionate about.

But yeah to sum it up I am not necessarily looking to be in the league of a mixing or mastering engineer (not as far as I know yet anyway), I just want to be able to do it well enough so it sounds good enough, and so that I do not get too many comments like "your track is nice enough but the mixdown needs improvement" etc.

Again I would like to thank you again for the time you took to write your long reply, and in advance for an eventual reply to this one.

Mad Phonetics: I am making stuff like electro house, progressive house and those kind of genres.
 
marcusjt you're very much welcome. Seems to me that you're equipped well enough with your knowledge and tools.

1st off your mixes are really good, I stick to what I said you're 70-80% there. The last 20% to me is most probably overall consistency on your mixing.

Mad Phonetic's question is actually very important as well, because in different genres, some techniques are not used as often as in others.

As you've said with what genre you're into and you mentioned that you basically do everything, I think your slight struggle when to when to use compressors comes from the fact that you mostly deal with electronic sounds or EDM if we're talking about genres. Whether they're from samples or synths, electronic genres by nature really don't use compressors much in the mixing stage too much unless it's for taming some peaks or bringing out some quite elements. Because most probably, you've done all the compressing in the production/sound designing stage.

If you're like me and you treat production & sound design as a separate job from mixing, as opposed to doing thing at the same time almost simultaneously, then mostly likely at the mixing stage you won't need much compressing, maybe on buses but hardly any compressing at all.

Why is that you ask? Again, because you most probably have already gotten the sound you want in the sound design and production stage.

That's why I emphasized that you only should put a compressor on a tracks that only need it.

Go back to the basics, what is one of the main purposes of a compressor? It's to control dynamics, with any tool, its to get the sound you desire.

So if a track already sounds dynamically consistent and it fits well in the mix, then you don't need to put a compressor on it.
If you think you to need to tame a little bit of the peaks or you might want to bring up quiet elements of a track, then go use a compressor.

If you think it a sound is wimpy then go try parallel compression, you can easily undo it if it doesn't work.

It's the same with all effects, try to go back to the main purpose of the plugin, then ask yourself wether you really need or don't

Again it's easy to undo things so don't be afraid to go through trial and error, and experiment! I'm sure you do this all the time. :)





A few key points:

Sometimes lack of "movement" in as song is with the music side of things. Don't be afraid to rethink your song and admit that it might just be working.

In mixing try to keep it simple. Unless you're creatively working.

In the mixing stage your goal is to make your track sound at least 75-80% there. If it's less than that, I highly advise against procceeding to mastering.

I think you might be overdoing your mastering stage and that maybe the reason you're losing that little bit of the extra clarity or movement in your tracks. Too much can be really harmful to your mix, it can ruin it. Epecially on the master bus, take it easy.

So Just like in Compression treat multiband compression the same, don't use it when you don't need it. Same as with dynamic EQ, exciter etc.

For me the essentials are the linear phase EQ, a little bit of master buss compression and LIMITING. And in mastering Always compress first before limitng. Those 3 effects alone can make a whole lot of difference with your tracks.

I would advise against using an exiter on the master bus as this might introduce harmonics that can make your buss compressor or even your limiter to react. Same with the stereo spread use this sparingly on the master bus, remember, you're altering the entire song.
As much as possible, get the stereo aspect where you want it in the mixing stage. And most of the time it's only a few instruments that need to be spread out, not all of them.

I know you probably already know all of this but might have forgotten or overlooked.

Recordingrevolution on youtube is awesome for your concerns

Here are specific vids that I am most certain will be able to help you:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qYVx9Z8O1dw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cR_oi_5KAmc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ECRx4WF3pcc

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XD2swcN0h8c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYRRUKXOEbs



Aside from For my ultimate tip of resting your ears, I really suggest you do referencing. Use a professionally released track, like from for example Martin Garrix, Major lazer, and the like. That way you can truly have better perspective on your mix.

MOST IMPORTANT VID: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aFbBJFmF2-g

Try to avoid listening to badly mixed/mastered songs, even if its just for your pastime. It can subconsciously condition your brain to get used to bad quality audio. I say this because in the genres you've mentioned, mix quality veries a lot and bad quality is rampant especially in the indipendent dpeartment. :D


Trust me you're already on the right path, and your knowledge is most probably enough but the learning should never cease. Knowing when to use your plugins will come with experience and practicing a lot, training your ears and with actual application of skills.

I am also very happy that you're not at all worried about your gear and the plugins you use, casue I'm tired of that arguement. It's the preson using the tools not the tools themselves.

BEFORE SPENDING ANY MONEY ON EDUCATION MAKE SURE YOU'VE EXPLORED ALL THE CORNERS OF THE WEB.

I enjoy teaching, I am n passionate educator so don't sweat the long tips & tricks hahahaha

Also I HAVE TOO MUCH FREE TIME RIGHT NOW Hahahaha

Anymore question? Keep shootn' PEACE!
 
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Hey CmRob! You are right, I do fix a lot that I feel like need to be fixed in a sound while I design it. But I actually do some mixing as I go, I EQ out frequencies that I KNOW I will remove anyway while I make the actual track, and try to make it fit as well as possible while I make it before I even reach the mixing stage. Don't know if this is a mistake or not.

And I have seen people, while mixing, putting compressors on a couple of buses and sending sounds there... I must admit that I do not really see the point of this, why not just put the compressor on the actual tracks that need it?

And the thing about overdoing the mastering stage: yeah it really makes sense, I dont know why I would have exciter/stereo spread on the master bus, just something random I picked up that some guy was doing. I will limit myself to the linear phase EQ (which already is the EQ I use on the master btw), the compressor and limiter. And yeah, I do know to put the limiter last, haha. Would be kind of pointless to limit everything if you boost it back up again :D

I will probably check out every single video you linked me when I get home (almost no such thing as too much knowledge to me).

And bout the referencing, I have tried to do it before but didn't really understand how to really use it. Am I supposed to just listen how equal they sound, or should I look at some meter and see the differences they have visually? The main thing I noticed from using a reference track is that I didn't get mine quite as loud (or perceived loud or whatever) no matter how hard I tried. And I thought that it was probably a mixing thing, that if my mix was better, my limiter and mb-compressor and stuff would give more loudness? Not too sure on that though, was just something I thought to myself..

By the way: I also saw some guy mixing putting different reverbs on buses, and then sending almost every channel to one of those buses. I found that strange and hard to understand, why would I for instance have reverb on every single drum and percussion? I personally use reverb more as an effect as opposed to mixing.. And I feel like it tends to get muddy if too many instruments have too much of it. Some instruments might have a bit of reverb from before anyway, from when I was designing the sound, so why would I send it to a bus with even more reverb?

Thanks in advance!
 
marcusjt ,

I do apologize if I give some info that you obviously already know, like the putting the limiter last. It's my geeky nature that makes me run my mouth (or run my fingers? Hahaha). :D

Pointing out what you said that "almost no such thing as too much knowledge". I agree with that :)

See I'm right, you are already on the right path, you definitely know who you should listen to and who you shouldn't.


I will no longer talk much into details because clearly your foundation is strong my friend.


You're right with the reverb point.

With the bus compression thing, you are right for the most part but with organic styles sometimes bussing is needed. Like parallel compressing drums. Or balancing two different layered guitar sounds. I am 100% sure you already know what I'm taking about but the main point is bussing simply it makes life easier and it can even save CPU consupmtion.

As for the referencing, the purpose of the reference track is for you to check the balance of your mix better. Comparing it to the reference track, you should ask questions Like is the low-end good? Are my highs to rough?

Then after that, for me I just use a mastering grade eq to do what is needed.

I usually do referencing in the mastering stage but if I find that I can't match the overall tone and feel of my track to the reference, I do sometimes go back to mixing and adjust levels and the effects of individual tracks accordingly.

Also make sure to turn down the level of the reference track to the same as your track.

Referencing is not done so you could make sure yours song is as loud as the reference track, that is almost never done. :)
Stick to what you are doing, just push you limiter accordingly to get a louder track, you don't need a reference track for that.
You know what I am talking about.

The videos I sent you are what I think will help with your specific concerns.

You clearly already know very well how your tools work and what their purposes are, just trust your knowledge and skill. Trust you instincts. Trust your ears. If something goes wrong, the undo shortcut is there for you.

Keep up the good work! Peace!
 
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By the way: I also saw some guy mixing putting different reverbs on buses, and then sending almost every channel to one of those buses. I found that strange and hard to understand, why would I for instance have reverb on every single drum and percussion? I personally use reverb more as an effect as opposed to mixing.. And I feel like it tends to get muddy if too many instruments have too much of it. Some instruments might have a bit of reverb from before anyway, from when I was designing the sound, so why would I send it to a bus with even more reverb?

It is done to add separation and resonance to a mix and also to make the mix bloom when the listener turns up the playback volume. It can be an issue without pre-delay monitored on low volume, but with pre-delay and monitored on very high volume it is just perfect. The reason to bus them is to make the group of those tracks resonate, also to lower the separation among the sources that share the same bus and at the same time separate them more clearly against the other groups. ITB it is also done to free up CPU usage and hence get less time drag on the mix and less phase issues within the mix. Mono tracks are by default sending the same frequencies to both speakers, when you are forces to move the pan knob away from a hard panning you now get the same frequencies into the other speaker by default, that narrows down the sound source within the stereo image. By having reverbs in parallel and panned you are able to automatically get a compensation for the narrowing and you can keep the panner more hard panned, lowering the volume of the reverb busses widens the stereo image, increasing them adds separation lines in the stereo field, hence when you need to widen the mix you don't have to resort to stereo wideners as much and you now have faders for balancing separation vs width.

Please note that because of the multi duty nature of these busses, it is a fairly advanced type of application, you need to apply it correctly else you will only create mud. Experienced engineers that are used to target many issues at once with a single move can use these types of applications efficiently. It is also great for the dynamics of the mix, since you now have more automation options available, so you can build one stereo image for the chorus and another for the verse and all you need to do is to mute and unmute some tracks, so it is convenient too. It also provides some additional EQ filtering options, since you can now filter only the parallel tracks or only the dry tracks or with different settings on each. From a stereo perspective it is also nice because you can for instance run the reverb to the side and keep the mid dry and sometimes it is even better to focus the reverb into the mid and keep the side dry. In the hands of a skilled engineer this means a better sound. It is to a great degree the parallel processing that is the power behind this type of approach, which basically just gives the engineer more room for creativity and more options for attaching the listener.

Ideally you set some of these reverbs in the chorus so that the reverb hits back only on louder playback volume in the chorus, because of the pre-delay and panning combo on the reverbs even a single sound source can end up in various locations in the stereo field, depending on the playback volume and depending on the dynamics of the sound source. Hence you do not need to work as hard with pan automation. This particular type of application is not working great on sound sources with low amounts of resonance near the average playback volume, you typically apply this on sound sources that are already very resonant or in order to provide some more room for resonance on the dry tracks on the same speaker.

So please notice how the approach with reverb busses in parallel is used in many ways to have many impacts. It can make your mix fail or shine, that depends on the engineer. If you do not filter frequencies correctly and if you setup the reverbs with the wrong settings, then you do create mud, but that is not because of the approach with reverb busses in parallel, it is because in that particular context the approach is more advanced than the engineer.

One more thing. In general, when you have a set of busses with effects like different reverbs and compressors, to choose among for sending to, it is kind of supporting you to be creative as well, to work more thorroughly with separation, dimensionality and character. So it is kind of sending the right signals to the engineer too - be creative! One such creative move is to run the reverbs on the drums through the master bus brickwall peak limiter, but not the dry tracks. This adds some nice air to the drums because the reverb rounds the transients a bit and does not become hard because you do not input that much signal into it. Often times you saturate the signal into the reverb, which means now you can add even more air to the drums, air that can be created in all directions within the stereo field, maybe most importantly that it can be made up front and make these sound sources bigger and hence make the mix bigger without crushing it. So it is a very sweet approach for drums and vocals.

And in combination with comps and gates before and/or after the reverb you can do even more.

Basically it is awesome. This approach you find on many hit mixes out there and it works great.
 
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everyone else summed everything else up... use a track you like the mix for and use it as a reference thats how i learned !
 
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