How much effort/volume is ideal for recording r&b vox?

[D-toks]

Hey all,

Just wondering about something. How much physical effort do you put in when recording r&b vox? More specifically, how much effort do you put in to your own volume vs using the gain on your pre-amp? Having problems figuring out how much effort I should put in vs how much I should let the mic/preamp do the work? I'm very curious as to how professional singers approach this. Thanks.

 

[DarkRed]

Hey all,

Just wondering about something. How much physical effort do you put in when recording r&b vox? More specifically, how much effort do you put in to your own volume vs using the gain on your pre-amp? Having problems figuring out how much effort I should put in vs how much I should let the mic/preamp do the work? I'm very curious as to how professional singers approach this. Thanks.

This is a production decision. A single production contains many different monitoring levels to the vocalist to help him/her record vocals that fit the production. Generally, one should be careful with too low monitoring volume to the singer combined with a too long song duration at that configuration. Because that can create a section in the mix when the listener switches over to another tune. It is all about knowing what turns off the listener.

 

[Adrian-MarQ]

A potential tip might be to start with the vocalist and work your way to the DAW. Make sure the vocalist is in a comfortable location/position. From there, get a good mic position. While testing out mic positions the vocalist can warm up or practice their material so that you can get a good sense what they will sound like if recorded in that position. You should be able to get a good sense of the level you're recording at... you'll have a lot of flexibility with how hot you can record. As long as it isn't clipping or close to the noise floor and any ambient noise in your room the recording will fine. I personally like to record at a level that will sit well in the mix that I have to save myself a little time later on)

 

[D-toks]

This is a production decision. A single production contains many different monitoring levels to the vocalist to help him/her record vocals that fit the production. Generally, one should be careful with too low monitoring volume to the singer combined with a too long song duration at that configuration. Because that can create a section in the mix when the listener switches over to another tune. It is all about knowing what turns off the listener.

Thanks for the reply Dark. What do you mean by long song duration configurations and listener switching? Also, I'm not only asking about the gain dial on the pre-amp. I'm also asking about the actual performance – are results generally better if singers perform during a take with high volume and push themselves or if they perform in a soft relaxed demeanor. The former is what I mean by effort/volume from the singer which means I don't have to dial up the gain on the preamp as much, the latter is what I'd consider less effort/volume and therefore I'd compensate by jacking up the gain on the pre-amp. Although I recognize it is situational, there must be some general rule about this because when you listen to songs by say, Trey Songz for example, "his sound" is more or less consistent across all his recordings which means he's likely recording the same way each time and I'm trying to get insight into what way that is. It must be a common way because a lot of the contemporary guys out there are getting this type of vox sound in their mix. It's like there's a certain way to record R&B vox that most of these singers out there are using and I'm unaware of how to achieve this sound/type of balance in my mixes if that makes sense?

A potential tip might be to start with the vocalist and work your way to the DAW. Make sure the vocalist is in a comfortable location/position. From there, get a good mic position. While testing out mic positions the vocalist can warm up or practice their material so that you can get a good sense what they will sound like if recorded in that position. You should be able to get a good sense of the level you're recording at... you'll have a lot of flexibility with how hot you can record. As long as it isn't clipping or close to the noise floor and any ambient noise in your room the recording will fine. I personally like to record at a level that will sit well in the mix that I have to save myself a little time later on)

I'm trying to find that balance where the vox can sit in the mix more or less on its own with out me having to do much but that's proving really difficult. Although I like your idea about recording in different positions, my issue with that is that it seems when the project comes together afterwards, it sounds like there are two different vocalists/the sound is highly inconsistent. Consistency in tone and balance is something I've noticed in a lot of professional mixes. This is something I especially find difficult to replicate if the same track is recorded on different days but I think that's another issue entirely that I have to deal with. Here like you've hinted at, I'm really focused on trying to get the vox to sit well in the mix but as I said in my reply to Dark, I'm wondering what approach to recording a take is generally ideal for giving the best chance at getting a great R&B sound. Maybe I'll just have to keep experimenting but it's getting frustrating not being able to achieve R&B sounds after so many months.

 

[chris carter]

There IS a general rule about the volume of the singer. The singer should sing the volume that gets them the best 'tone' or 'sound'. I would never ever ask a singer to sing louder or softer for technical reasons relating to the recorded level. If they need to sing the parts really soft, then I'll just use more gain on the preamp. If they need to sing the parts loud, I'll use less. But I have them sing the volume that is appropriate for the sound we want. To explain it another way, the level I want recorded in the DAW has NO bearing WHATSOEVER to how loud I ask the singer to sing. If that doesn't answer your question, let me know.

Regarding mic position, if I understand your question, I never move the mic for a singer on the same song UNLESS I want a different tone. For example, I might have lead vocals, and most of the backups all at the same exact position. But then there might be some shouty parts or something and I want those parts to have a different feel - I want them to feel farther away - so I might move the mic (or the singer) to a different position (like 5 or 6ft away).

As far as getting a great R&B sound, assuming it's a contemporary sound, then most of the times these vocals are mic'd pretty close with the mouth between 3 and 8 inches from the mic and typically in a fairly dry room, or if the room is reflective we use absorptive baffles or blankets are hung behind and around the singer to knock down the vast majority of the reflections.

 

[D-toks]

There IS a general rule about the volume of the singer. The singer should sing the volume that gets them the best 'tone' or 'sound'. I would never ever ask a singer to sing louder or softer for technical reasons relating to the recorded level. If they need to sing the parts really soft, then I'll just use more gain on the preamp. If they need to sing the parts loud, I'll use less. But I have them sing the volume that is appropriate for the sound we want. To explain it another way, the level I want recorded in the DAW has NO bearing WHATSOEVER to how loud I ask the singer to sing. If that doesn't answer your question, let me know.

Thanks for the in depth reply Chris. So let me make sure I get where you're coming from. You're saying:
• As long as there is no clipping, we don't really care about the waveform/how hot the signal is?
• You have the singer use consistent volume throughout without changing dynamics because you'd rather adjust the faders after the fact for soft vs loud parts?
• The singer chooses the volume and you adjust the fader to that (I think maybe this is what Adrian was saying to me as well)?

If I have that all right then okay...with respect to getting the best "tone", how can a singer know they are singing at the ideal volume? Is it generally the volume closest to their natural speaking voice? Trying to understand how one goes about figuring out their baseline/ideal volume if it is so variable?

Regarding mic position, if I understand your question, I never move the mic for a singer on the same song UNLESS I want a different tone. For example, I might have lead vocals, and most of the backups all at the same exact position. But then there might be some shouty parts or something and I want those parts to have a different feel - I want them to feel farther away - so I might move the mic (or the singer) to a different position (like 5 or 6ft away).

Okay that makes more sense. Do you think recording on different days as long as the mic is in the same position is a good idea or are you an advocate for finishing songs in the day you start them?

As far as getting a great R&B sound, assuming it's a contemporary sound, then most of the times these vocals are mic'd pretty close with the mouth between 3 and 8 inches from the mic and typically in a fairly dry room, or if the room is reflective we use absorptive baffles or blankets are hung behind and around the singer to knock down the vast majority of the reflections.

Yes I'm after the contemporary sound CB, Trey Songz, August Alsina, all these guys are getting. I understand they are just tremendously talented but even some singers who clearly aren't, like Future (imo), are getting really good sounds despite their voices so I feel like I'm missing something here. Currently my home studio of sorts is my bedroom. There's a curtain placed behind my mic for absorption. Since it's cardiod unidirectional, I haven't really got anything on the other side because the mic doesn't really pick up much of anything from behind if I understand how these types of mics work correctly.

 

[sleepy]

I didn't read through all of the responses, so I might be repeating stuff.

I do a dry run and keep my eyes on my input levels when I record someone that is going to do a dynamic performance. In the end, to me it doesn't matter what I am recording, but how I am recording it. If you have very loud parts and very soft parts, just make sure the loud parts don't clip. I don't ask artists to control their sound levels. I ask for good performances and it's my job to worry about the sound levels. You shouldn't ask artists about their ideal volumes because that question doesn't really make sense. If you have a singer that can't really sing, they might sing in a low tone to mask that (think Selena Gomez in some of her stuff that is playing on the radio). If you have a singer that can really sing (think Christina Aguilera) they're probably going to deliver and a nuanced performance may have a little bit of everything. If you ask a singer like Aguilera to perform using the same volume, it's going to kill all the soul of the performance.

The only time singers really need to pay attention to their performances is during live performances. Good singers know how to control their levels, that's why you see them pulling the microphone closer or further to their mouths depending on their levels. In a studio environment, they can't grab the microphone the same way so they'd have to move their entire bodies, which can throw things off.

 

[chris carter]

Thanks for the in depth reply Chris. So let me make sure I get where you're coming from. You're saying:
• As long as there is no clipping, we don't really care about the waveform/how hot the signal is?

Sort of. Clipping is VERY bad. But you also lose something called "linearity" toward the top of your A/D converter so really it's best to generally try to avoid getting within a few dB of clipping. When I cut vocals I generally only have a few peaks here and there over -6dBFS. If I'm getting lots of peaks over -6 when doing a rehearsal take (when I have the singer go through the song while I set my levels), then I'll turn the preamp (or other gain-staging device in my mic chain) down.

• You have the singer use consistent volume throughout without changing dynamics because you'd rather adjust the faders after the fact for soft vs loud parts?

No. I have the singer sing whatever volume is best for the performance. For example, in a verse there might be very intimate parts where they are singing very very quietly, softer than the volume of an intimate conversation, and then in the chorus they explode into full-blast belting. I want the emotion of their voice. I will deal with evening out the levels so everything is audible at mixdown. So again, just for emphasis, I do NOT consider technical recording factors when guiding a singer on how to perform their parts. I have them sing the best they can and I deal with the recording technical stuff on my end only.

• The singer chooses the volume and you adjust the fader to that (I think maybe this is what Adrian was saying to me as well)?

Yes, sort of. I may (as a producer) help them find the right voice for the part. But it has nothing to do with what level I want to record. I adjust the recording level on my end and I don't concern the artist with that.

If I have that all right then okay...with respect to getting the best "tone", how can a singer know they are singing at the ideal volume? Is it generally the volume closest to their natural speaking voice? Trying to understand how one goes about figuring out their baseline/ideal volume if it is so variable?

It's what sounds best to convey the emotion of the song. The human voice is incredibly dynamic so it's just what volume and timbre express the best emotion and feeling for the part.

Okay that makes more sense. Do you think recording on different days as long as the mic is in the same position is a good idea or are you an advocate for finishing songs in the day you start them?

I ALWAYS write down the exact position of the mic, the position of the singer relative to the mic, my preamp settings, and any other settings in my vocal chain so that I can later record parts and have everything match. That said, if I'm recording on multilple days (common, particularly with a lot of pop and r&b songs that have tons of vocal parts), I try and group them. So I try and get all the verses done on the same day. All the chorus parts done on the same day, etc. The reason is because even though I can replicate the recording portion, the artist might have a harder time replicating the exact same tone and feeling. When I do have to go back and replace part or all of say, a verse, I will go through great effort to make sure I get the artist singing exactly the same way they were before with the same emotion so that the new recorded takes blend with the old ones.

Yes I'm after the contemporary sound CB, Trey Songz, August Alsina, all these guys are getting. I understand they are just tremendously talented but even some singers who clearly aren't, like Future (imo), are getting really good sounds despite their voices so I feel like I'm missing something here. Currently my home studio of sorts is my bedroom. There's a curtain placed behind my mic for absorption. Since it's cardiod unidirectional, I haven't really got anything on the other side because the mic doesn't really pick up much of anything from behind if I understand how these types of mics work correctly.

You are correct in that you primarily want the absorption behind the singer (where the mic pics up sound) and less concerned with aborption behind the microphone (unless the back of the mic is within a few feet of a reflective surface because it will cause some comb-filtering). Bear in mind though that while you are missing "something" these folks are, for the most part, recording with great engineers that have a ton of experience. They are typically recording in good recording studio with good equipment. And their records are typically mixed by excellent mix engineers. Probably all of those things are lacking in your case so to a certain extent it just isn't a fair comparison. It will take a lot of time on your part to get there. For example, your records might not sound like mine, but I've been making these things for 20 years and for 15 of those years it's been my full-time job doing it day in and day out. It would be like taking a year of gymnastics and then trying to compete for a spot on the olympic team with people who have 10 to 15 times as much experience as you. Of course, this is what drives us to work hard and improve. There was a time, after all, where I knew nothing and struggled to just get something halfway usable recorded, let alone sound good!

 

[D-toks]

I didn't read through all of the responses, so I might be repeating stuff.

I do a dry run and keep my eyes on my input levels when I record someone that is going to do a dynamic performance. In the end, to me it doesn't matter what I am recording, but how I am recording it. If you have very loud parts and very soft parts, just make sure the loud parts don't clip. I don't ask artists to control their sound levels. I ask for good performances and it's my job to worry about the sound levels. You shouldn't ask artists about their ideal volumes because that question doesn't really make sense. If you have a singer that can't really sing, they might sing in a low tone to mask that (think Selena Gomez in some of her stuff that is playing on the radio). If you have a singer that can really sing (think Christina Aguilera) they're probably going to deliver and a nuanced performance may have a little bit of everything. If you ask a singer like Aguilera to perform using the same volume, it's going to kill all the soul of the performance.

The only time singers really need to pay attention to their performances is during live performances. Good singers know how to control their levels, that's why you see them pulling the microphone closer or further to their mouths depending on their levels. In a studio environment, they can't grab the microphone the same way so they'd have to move their entire bodies, which can throw things off.

Thanks sleepy. That last point you made is a salient one I'm really trying harder to understand. Live singing vs studio singing. They are world's apart seemingly in terms of the approach one has to take. That said, it seems like the studio game is super intense in terms of getting things perfect in so many respects beyond my primitive way of viewing things. Back to the drawing board for me I guess.

Sort of. Clipping is VERY bad. But you also lose something called "linearity" toward the top of your A/D converter so really it's best to generally try to avoid getting within a few dB of clipping. When I cut vocals I generally only have a few peaks here and there over -6dBFS. If I'm getting lots of peaks over -6 when doing a rehearsal take (when I have the singer go through the song while I set my levels), then I'll turn the preamp (or other gain-staging device in my mic chain) down.

I'll try this next time. I usually approach things as don't like the Logic DAW sound bars go past yellow/into the red region. So I would accept orange and yellow. I'll try to just stick with the orange region on the next project.

No. I have the singer sing whatever volume is best for the performance. For example, in a verse there might be very intimate parts where they are singing very very quietly, softer than the volume of an intimate conversation, and then in the chorus they explode into full-blast belting. I want the emotion of their voice. I will deal with evening out the levels so everything is audible at mixdown. So again, just for emphasis, I do NOT consider technical recording factors when guiding a singer on how to perform their parts. I have them sing the best they can and I deal with the recording technical stuff on my end only.

Okay sweet. Combined with what sleepy said this is clear to me now. I'll just err on the side of caution and set the volume low to accomodate a broader dynamic range and then make duplicate copies of the vox if need be if the volume is too quiet in the end.

Yes, sort of. I may (as a producer) help them find the right voice for the part. But it has nothing to do with what level I want to record. I adjust the recording level on my end and I don't concern the artist with that.
It's what sounds best to convey the emotion of the song. The human voice is incredibly dynamic so it's just what volume and timbre express the best emotion and feeling for the part.

I think what I'm going to do now is go on Youtube and try to find filmed recording sessions of singers to get a better visual of how this looks. I feel like that would help me solidify the things discussed in this thread thus far.

I ALWAYS write down the exact position of the mic, the position of the singer relative to the mic, my preamp settings, and any other settings in my vocal chain so that I can later record parts and have everything match. That said, if I'm recording on multilple days (common, particularly with a lot of pop and r&b songs that have tons of vocal parts), I try and group them. So I try and get all the verses done on the same day. All the chorus parts done on the same day, etc. The reason is because even though I can replicate the recording portion, the artist might have a harder time replicating the exact same tone and feeling. When I do have to go back and replace part or all of say, a verse, I will go through great effort to make sure I get the artist singing exactly the same way they were before with the same emotion so that the new recorded takes blend with the old ones.

I've never been able to find the exact same tone on different days so your idea of doing all the verses in one day vs chorus on another day is good. I do not remember where I heard it but I was kind of under the impression that it is best to try to go through the whole song in a single take and do that multiple times because if you split verses and chorus it disrupts the flow of the performance/seems disjointed. You don't find that at all?

You are correct in that you primarily want the absorption behind the singer (where the mic pics up sound) and less concerned with aborption behind the microphone (unless the back of the mic is within a few feet of a reflective surface because it will cause some comb-filtering). Bear in mind though that while you are missing "something" these folks are, for the most part, recording with great engineers that have a ton of experience. They are typically recording in good recording studio with good equipment. And their records are typically mixed by excellent mix engineers. Probably all of those things are lacking in your case so to a certain extent it just isn't a fair comparison. It will take a lot of time on your part to get there. For example, your records might not sound like mine, but I've been making these things for 20 years and for 15 of those years it's been my full-time job doing it day in and day out. It would be like taking a year of gymnastics and then trying to compete for a spot on the olympic team with people who have 10 to 15 times as much experience as you. Of course, this is what drives us to work hard and improve. There was a time, after all, where I knew nothing and struggled to just get something halfway usable recorded, let alone sound good!

Haha the halfway usable record is the life I'm about right now. It's the most frustrating rut to be in. You always feel like surely you must be close to breaking out to a new level but it never happens. Your gymnastics comparison makes sense though. Never really put it in that vivid a context before but it's a salient point. Thanks.

 

[mifzanherawan]

There IS a general rule about the volume of the singer. The singer should sing the volume that gets them the best 'tone' or 'sound'. I would never ever ask a singer to sing louder or softer for technical reasons relating to the recorded level. If they need to sing the parts really soft, then I'll just use more gain on the preamp. If they need to sing the parts loud, I'll use less. But I have them sing the volume that is appropriate for the sound we want. To explain it another way, the level I want recorded in the DAW has NO bearing WHATSOEVER to how loud I ask the singer to sing. If that doesn't answer your question, let me know.

Regarding mic position, if I understand your question, I never move the mic for a singer on the same song UNLESS I want a different tone. For example, I might have lead vocals, and most of the backups all at the same exact position. But then there might be some shouty parts or something and I want those parts to have a different feel - I want them to feel farther away - so I might move the mic (or the singer) to a different position (like 5 or 6ft away).

As far as getting a great R&B sound, assuming it's a contemporary sound, then most of the times these vocals are mic'd pretty close with the mouth between 3 and 8 inches from the mic and typically in a fairly dry room, or if the room is reflective we use absorptive baffles or blankets are hung behind and around the singer to knock down the vast majority of the reflections.

oh wow didn't know about that rule. 3 inches are pretty damn close, so how do you know whether to put it farther away or not ? does it matter about the gender ? the timber or something ? the amount of hiss a singer produce ?

 

[Kalm]

Honestly, the only thing I look for when I record vocals is proximity effect, timbre, and performance. Anything else besides this (except for noise and unwanted sounds) is completely disregarded during my recording process. Why? Cause there's no point. You don't listen to a record and ask "Hey Jim, how far do you think she's away from the mic?" No, you say "Gosh, that was a great performance." Not only that the variables that happen during recording are endless. Humans are animators, we're not robotic. Therefore you must work with your artist and learn your artist. These are all production decisions.
Now when it comes to technical decisions from the nature of recording, starting points is typically 3-5 inches but a loud singer or even ad lib recording may work better with the recording artist further away. Maybe you want to drive the pre-amp with the artist right on the mic for a close proximity effect to the listener. The best way to think about it is what you are trying to achieve and decision making during tracking that you can AVOID having to fix in the mix. If the artist sounds better 3inches back cool. If he sounds better 7 inches out, even better.

 

[D-toks]

So Kalm do you just have the singer try singing takes closer to the mic vs further back at several distances and then just decide which is best and have them stay there for the rest of session. Or is it really a let the artist walk in, stand whereever they want, and we just control what we can from the outside as producer/engineer? Basically, take into your mind for what that initial set up process is once the singer enters the studio/before the show gets rolling?

 

[Kalm]

It's more so the first idea. Typically with rap artists I let them just do their thing. After one take evaluate what I hear then make decisions till I feel they are comfortable and I'm hitting a sweetspot with the vocal recording. Now with singers I tend to work a little bit different. Weak vs Strong diaphragms have always given me different results as well as annunciation. Typically rap artists have confidence and that's primarily all I really look for. Singers, I'm looking for comfort and the ability to convey the message to the microphone to where it sounds pleasant.

The last person I recorded I made sure he was a good 4-5 inches away from the mic because he had a desire to create his song and he proximity effect would've hurt more than harm. So I backed him away from the mic enough to roll off any excess low end that would've hurt his performance more than help. It's like when I'm at my church service and my pastor talked soft into the mic, its hard to understand cause he's not projecting and resonating his mid range enough into the mic and the proximity is overkill. Let him get happy and scream though. . .

 

[D-toks]

Hahaha at that last sentence. That's interesting, how you approach the rappers vs the singers. Is the proximity effect really NEVER good for a singer though? I understand proximity effect is good for rap to get that big boomy voice like Kevin Gates but what if the singer has a thin voice? Why not get them up close for that bass boosting proximity effect? Or is it a case of it's easier to add bass if necessary vs taking it out when it's unwanted? Also, when you say weak vs strong diaphragms are you politely saying bad vs good singers? I've never heard of weak diaphragm being stated in a positive light before.

 

[Kalm]

Hahaha at that last sentence. That's interesting, how you approach the rappers vs the singers. Is the proximity effect really NEVER good for a singer though? I understand proximity effect is good for rap to get that big boomy voice like Kevin Gates but what if the singer has a thin voice? Why not get them up close for that bass boosting proximity effect? Or is it a case of it's easier to add bass if necessary vs taking it out when it's unwanted? Also, when you say weak vs strong diaphragms are you politely saying bad vs good singers? I've never heard of weak diaphragm being stated in a positive light before.

Well it depends but you're right, I do use proximity effect to my advantage. Weak singers for me needed to be up close just so I can hear them. However if I start getting harsh sibilance or their consonants are really sharp, then they need to back up from the mic and I need to compensate with gain. Now in a well treated environment that's not an issue but not all room are quiet so balance is the key. Sometimes it is easier to take out bass in a mix but what I found is it's easier to treat the mix as a whole without having to spend hours treating a vocal. When the song sounds good to me upon reopening it for the first time, I look forward to the mix. When I know I have to waste time "correcting" elements, it frustrates me so. Some artist you may add bass but if that's the case, I rather go for parallel compression / saturation for that instead of basic EQ.

 

[chris carter]

Okay, here are some examples from records I produced, recorded, and mixed in different genres, all using the same vocal mic:

1. Broken Love Song. Both the rapper and the singer, the mic position was pretty much the same. 5” away from the grill. This is generally my “default” position for contemporary vocals.


2. I Don’t Wanna Be With You. All the lead vocals were about 6” away from the grill of the mic. The ‘choir’ in the second half of the song is really just the same vocalist tracked a ton of times and the distance for those parts was 4 feet or so (it’s written down somewhere in the session, but I’m going from memory here). So two different mic positions for two different sounds.


3. Lye. The lead vocalist on this one was 5” I think. I actually intentionally overloaded the mic preamp so it would break up some when he was on loud notes. This was also a different preamp than the other three example songs I’ve listed. The girl talking parts in all the choruses was mic’d probably 2 or 3 feet away. The reason for the distance on the girl was that she had never done this kind of thing and the vibe in the studio at that point in time wasn’t the greatest, so feelings were a little fragile. The band had travelled REALLY far to work with me (from California to DC) and we had limited time. So when she sat down to do her parts, where she sat is where I left her and took the attitude ‘if it sounds okay, don’t risk it.’ Otherwise I would have recorded her very close to the mic.


4. Say. This was actually a really big record a few years ago (I’m still collecting royalties on it). She crossed the Atlantic Ocean to work with me (literally). Mic’d Christabelle about 5”, most common distance I use. In the second half of the song most of those big stacked vocals are also at that distance, but for texture purposes I also did a bunch of those voices at like 4ft. So those stacks are a combination of some parts up close and some parts at great distance.


In all of these examples I got the volume from the singer based on the feel of the record, lyrics, etc. without considering the volume I recorded into the DAW. The level at the DAW is set by my preamp (and in all of these, the EQ and compressor used, which all affect the gain). So to be clear – the volume of the singer is based upon tone, feel, etc. The mic position is based on tone. The gain is (sorta) set for the level into the DAW. I say “sorta” because preamps sound different at different levels depending on the particular preamp and design. So often I actually set the preamp for the tone I want and then use the gain (or attenuation) from the EQ and/or compressor that follow in the chain – but that’s some really advanced stuff. For most people, particularly if using stock preamps on an interface, you will set the gain on the preamp for the level you want in the DAW.

I hope that makes sense and I hope the examples are useful.

 

[D-toks]

@Kalm Thanks mang. So would you say your approach is really a case of you find a balance on the pre-amp vs singer to the point where once the song is recorded, it should be able to stand on its own without having to do any mixing? Of course you will go on to do the mixing anyway but you view mixing as more of a polish and less of an actual "treatment" to a vox so to say?

@Chris Thanks a lot for the samples and examples. I'll try the 6" distance because I really liked song number 2. Do you advice an artist is planning to record multiple songs to record their leads at the same distance for there to be a consistency of tone/sound for each of the songs or do you actually treat each song as completely separate and see no issue with changing positions/settings completely from song to song?

 

[chris carter]

I approach each song as it's own thing. That said, I keep notes on what I do for each song. So for the next song, if I'm going for the same sound, then I'll use my previous position and settings as a starting point and then make adjustments as needed. If the next song requires a totally different sound, then I'll start from scratch. I've been doing this a really really long time, so at a certain point you kind of build up a library in your brain and can predict what kind of sound you'll get by doing this or that.

 

[Kalm]

@Kalm Thanks mang. So would you say your approach is really a case of you find a balance on the pre-amp vs singer to the point where once the song is recorded, it should be able to stand on its own without having to do any mixing? Of course you will go on to do the mixing anyway but you view mixing as more of a polish and less of an actual "treatment" to a vox so to say?

For the most part yes. Now with very random performers or people that are beginners to recording you don't always have that leeway. Over-sensitive, those that don't know how to take judgement or hate orders, or just won't listen are some of the people you might run into (cause I have). At that point it's you mix what you have. But I personally like to make my life easier as it will in the end serve the song better. If you make the song difficult to start with, then the song becomes a challenge. Not everybody wants to mix with a challenge in mind. But there are times where you might have to work some magic to "treat" a vocal and make it sound good.

When it comes to mixing, my goal is to make it astonishing and fun to listen to. A lot of my beliefs is due to the genre I'm in but a song needs to be interesting and have a reason to listen to it. If there isn't cohesion in the RAW tracks then I always feel I got to treat the tracks before I get to make the tracks into a proper song. To me everything should bounce off each other. If things are rough like improper recorded vocals, it frustrates me, therefore I think frustrates the listener.

 

[D-toks]

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For the most part yes. Now with very random performers or people that are beginners to recording you don't always have that leeway. Over-sensitive, those that don't know how to take judgement or hate orders, or just won't listen are some of the people you might run into (cause I have). At that point it's you mix what you have. But I personally like to make my life easier as it will in the end serve the song better. If you make the song difficult to start with, then the song becomes a challenge. Not everybody wants to mix with a challenge in mind. But there are times where you might have to work some magic to "treat" a vocal and make it sound good.

When it comes to mixing, my goal is to make it astonishing and fun to listen to. A lot of my beliefs is due to the genre I'm in but a song needs to be interesting and have a reason to listen to it. If there isn't cohesion in the RAW tracks then I always feel I got to treat the tracks before I get to make the tracks into a proper song. To me everything should bounce off each other. If things are rough like improper recorded vocals, it frustrates me, therefore I think frustrates the listener.

So in terms of the actual tracking, what is your checklist of sorts to say you've got enough to work with? And if the singer just is not delivering what you want, how do you approach that?

Now that you've mentioned it, I'm curious as to what genre you're in? And are there any specific techniques you've found are helpful to your clients WHILE they are tracking (e.g. volumes in their headset mix, taking out the bass to eliminate psychoacoustic effects, or other)?