how much do you charge for mix and mastering a track?

No offense to the OP....but why does this question come up every few months, year after year? No one can tell you what you should be charging in a service business. As engineers we run a SERVICE business.

If I were a plumber I would not get on the plumbing forums (I guess they have these) and ask what I should be charging customers to clean out their pipes. One guy in London may charge one price and someone in New York will charge another for pipe cleanouts. The sooner we all start realizing that this is a business the better. Sure I love to mix tracks, but the bottom-line is that I run a business plain & simple. It pays my bills. So that being said you have to run it like a business.

You figure out your pricing like every other service business out there.

1. Find out your cost (equipment, insurance, your time, avg. mix time,etc.)
2. Find out what your competitors are charging (not the guy miles away from you but in your own area).
3. Next you find out the perceived value to the customer (what your market will bear...what the customer will pay you).
4. Lastly you decide a MIN/MAX (this is your minimum amount of profit you will except & the amount of profit you would like to have on every job)

Your price is based on this. There are lots of variations on this, but for the most part this is how you do it.

Each job is different, but you should now know the lowest you can go and still make a profit for your service. Let me say it again PROFIT!

Okay, notice the last one (MIN/MAX) is your profit! This means that you should always be working for some sort of profit. If you paid NOTHING for your equipment, you pay nothing in ads, you don't want to be paid or you do not value your time, then it is okay to charge nothing or next to nothing I guess. But if you pay for software, equipment, your salary, etc., then it is pretty easy to have a dollar value for your service in mind. Now granted this will change over time and through out the year as you try different things(promotions, sales, etc.), but that is just part of business. Bottom-line you need to make a profit or you are not working your are doing volunteer work, which is completely different.

It does not matter if you are selling hot dogs on the corner or mixing, it is all the same. Figure out your true cost and operating expenses, decide your target profit, set your price to hit that target....period. Don't worry about the guy selling mixes for $5 dollars or the guy selling his mixes at $5000 a pop. Worry about your target profit for YOUR business and try to hit it!

Just remember McDonalds is NEVER worry about another business that sells burgers cheaper than they do. They only focus on quality & brand name. Their rep and their quality of product, keeps the doors swinging open, not their prices alone.
 
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^You definitely devalue yourself if you're unable to get a good mix going. Mixing is part of producing. They kind of go hand in hand.

It's the same as saying "I'm a singer... and I want to sing your chorus, however... i have a tough time hitting certain notes, so I need to send my tracks to someone to correct the pitch".

The best advice I would offer is to do whatever you have to do to learn what your shortcomings are in your mix and improve them. Otherwise that's money out the window on something you could've done yourself.
 
Yeah, I'm actually looking into training as we speak. Couple of hours to at least get the basics down can't hurt.
 
Yeah, I'm actually looking into training as we speak. Couple of hours to at least get the basics down can't hurt.

Man there are tons of good free info out there. I would not necessarily pay for training if that is what you mean. I paid for school but that was back in 99...I would not do it today because it is a different world now. So much is on the internet now.

There are lots of knowledge kats on this site when it comes to engineering....Chris Carter, Matt Weiss, Moses, dyvce, foggy, myself just to name a few. We all try to answer questions and most of us write tutorials and stuff like that other places that you can learn from too. Also, check out the topics that are stickied at the top on this section...good stuff.

You can check out....my site @ www.NewProducer101.com or www.theproducerschoice.com
theres tutorials at both.

Just keep asking questions and keep learn man!

-Alex
 
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So since this forum seems to be mainly sound engineers, what advice would you give producers? I've found that I'm typically hit or miss with my "mixes". I have some tracks that sound pretty much mixed, ends up around -3 or -2dB and just need tweaks here or there. Then I find myself working on tracks and halfway through I realize the damn song is about -6 or -8dB, and is completely unbalanced. As for my style, 99% of the time I adjust the level of a track AS SOON as I finish recording it. More times than not, I even add the reverb or whatever FX I want on it (this is because until recently, I've never worked with an engineer). Now, I try to send a few bullets of what it is I'm looking for.

So what advice would you give somebody like me who hasn't actually gotten placements yet and is simply trying to have a nice a-- mixes for tracks that they want to shop around? Keep in mind most of us are going to be willing to work with you guess online, so it's hard to convey every single thing you want done on a track until you hear it back. And I know time is money, so I've actually just taken mixes that I would have rather done some tweaks to simply because I was only pay $20 for it.

First i'm a Artist/producer/engineer I make a living from all three of those things.

Producer to producer If you want my advice it's to learn how to mix your beats. It will take you a Loong time to get right but it's worth it. I can take a beat I don't like and make it a hit thru my mixing. But after saying all that if you need an engineer to help you with stuff you want done right now PM me and we'll talk.

but back to the topic I consider myself a professional now because I can deliver what people see as "Pro" quality I'm no Matt Wiess tho at least not yet haha. (Wasup Matt it's Kage!) Anyway he was right It's a balance of what you think you're worth and what people think you're worth. This is how I saw it because I am an artist, Imagine the artist side of you looking for an engineer and you found the engineer side of you, would you pay yourself what you're charging? If the answer's no you need to lower your price until you learn how to get at least somewhat close to the "Pro" sound. Most of the top Mix engineers have been doing it longer than they want to admit, since a lot of us were children or some of us not even born yet! haha! So you can't expect to get there overnight It takes a lot of time, practice and most of all experimenting. Hope I helped! I don't really post much

---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:52 PM ----------

Man there are tons of good free info out there. I would not necessarily pay for training if that is what you mean. I paid for school but that was back in 99...I would not do it today because it is a different world now. So much is on the internet now.

There are lots of knowledge kats on this site when it comes to engineering....Chris Carter, Matt Weiss, Moses, dyvce, foggy, myself just to name a few. We all try to answer questions and most of us write tutorials and stuff like that other places that you can learn from too. Also, check out the topics that are stickied at the top on this section...good stuff.


Just keep asking questions and keep learn man!

-Alex

And that's so real I never went to school but learned thru reading, videos and spent alot of time with other engineers of different genres. Man I'm still learning which everyone in this business should be But to add something else not every "producer" is a "producer" some are beatmakers and from my experience a lot of beatmakers don't have the same ear. So what I'm saying is not every producer can engineer, some people have the ear for it some don't. if you have the ear you can learn the technical stuff. If you don't have the ears you can try to train them but ...you get the point

It's mostly about who's dedicated and willing to learn and work the hardest but It is still a skill and takes talent... If you really insist on a class I would make sure you develop your ear and talent before, No class can GIVE anyone talent but it can help you release it
 


---------- Post added at 03:06 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:52 PM ----------

And that's so real I never went to school but learned thru reading, videos and spent alot of time with other engineers of different genres. Man I'm still learning which everyone in this business should be But to add something else not every "producer" is a "producer" some are beatmakers and from my experience a lot of beatmakers don't have the same ear. So what I'm saying is not every producer can engineer, some people have the ear for it some don't. if you have the ear you can learn the technical stuff. If you don't have the ears you can try to train them but ...you get the point

It's mostly about who's dedicated and willing to learn and work the hardest but It is still a skill and takes talent... If you really insist on a class I would make sure you develop your ear and talent before, No class can GIVE anyone talent but it can help you release it

Yep, I would agree with you....you can't stop learning because there is always NEW stuff to learn. New ways to do things. I mean for me I look at a player like Kobe (love him or hate him....he keeps putting in the work to get better and add to his game) and even 16 or 17 years or whatever it is now, he is still adding to his game. He has added a Dirk like kick to his turn-around-fade away to create more separation. I mean he doesn't have to practice or try to get better but he still tries to. All about desire and work ethic man. Those that are dedicated and willing to put in the work will get there.

I am always trying to learn more because there is always more to learn. I see you know Matt. He is a good guy and a knowledgeable kat. I talked to him on the phone one time and we weren't even really talking shop and I learned about 2 or 3 things just by him telling me about what he was working on..lol. A teacher once told me "always be ready to learn"...so it stuck with me and I try to be.

I think it is all about finding out what your true talent is and then being a sponge and trying to soak up EVERYTHING you can about that talent you have. Rather it is acting, producing, singing, engineering or whatever.
 
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All good points. Not too sound cocky, but I definitely have the ear, which to me is why I know when my mixes don't sound right. I just don't have the technical insight to know what to do to correct them. I see everyone playing with parametric eq's and cutting off frequencies, etc., but I just don't know what does what and why. I definitely am trying to be a producer and not a beat maker. Producers have a hand in the process from beginning to end.

To be honest, none of the sounds I use are low quality (Nexus, Gladiator, Komplete Ultimate, etc.) It's just getting that rough mix to have that crisp sound (a la Juliano, Scarecrow Beats, etc.). I downloaded a ton of custom mixer presets but I know that every mix/master is different. My other problem is that my end goal is two-fold: 1, I wanna sell on SoundClick which means it should be pretty much "mixed & mastered", even though that term isn't really being used right. And the second is actually trying to get placements and exposure via beat battles, etc. And those cats have top notch mixes when they show up.

All part of the grind, I guess. I hate it, but I love it.
 
A parametric eq is what you use to deal with the frequencies in a song. Every note produces a sound and every sound has a mathematical equivalent to that sound. It's the math behind the music. If you clear out space for all your sounds to come through then your mixes will sound cleaner.

Check out "Understanding Everything Has Its Own Place" it should stickied at the top of this section.


Here is a brief article on wrote of the math part of music; Fixing Clashing Sounds In A MixThis should get your started and then try to find some videos on using a parametric eq so you can see what is going on.
 
well what i normally do is, turn my output volume way down to the point where I can a conversation (while listening to the music) at a whisper. That includes turning all my track volumes down to -10db. Then I generally start with the backbone, the drums and bass (more specifically the relationship btw the kick drum and the bass line - making sure they are fighting for frequency space. I'll do my edits, think about the flow of the song, whether its a grove based song or a punchy dance/hip hop song and eq/compress/etc accordingly to what the song entails. I space all the drums/crashes/hh through panning, making sure they work both in stereo and mono and add a slight reverb to give some distance on cymbals, and a slight compression and eq to the snares to give pop to them.) once ive got the bottom end the way I want them and the drums sitting nicely (making sure they are clear and have a lot of strength and fullness at the low volume levels, i'll turn them up high to see how they sound dynamically at the high volume level and make slight adjustments if need be. Then I turn the volumes back down and work the vocals in and make sure they sit will with the drums. (repeat the volume process) Then i fill in the other accompany instruments making sure i keep a focus and focal point of what is important and the elements that are going to make for an exciting arrangement that engages the listeners focus and keeps it. Once I feel the that the song is tight dynamically and instruments are panned in the right place to keep that flavor, and the vocals are clear, I'll turn it up to hear it at a loud volume to make sure it sounds good and make adjustments. Generally if a song sounds great at low volumes and you can still bob ur head up and down, you song will sound AMAZING at high levels, which means you got the mix right. Then at that point, I turn the master bus down, and send it off for mastering. Generally though, if you get your mix right, there is less work in the mastering phase. There might be a little eq adjustments on the master bus, and some compression and limiting to bring the volume up as high as possible, but i think all the work comes down to how well you can mix your project. For any and every mastering need (or even mixing if you got the cheddar) I recommend using Black Dog Mastering. CD Mastering studio-Professional Mastering Services at competitive mastering studio prices! - You will be very happy with what they can do for your mix. They also give a lot of helpful tips to creating great mixes. Make sure you check them out!
 
So since this forum seems to be mainly sound engineers, what advice would you give producers? I've found that I'm typically hit or miss with my "mixes". I have some tracks that sound pretty much mixed, ends up around -3 or -2dB and just need tweaks here or there. Then I find myself working on tracks and halfway through I realize the damn song is about -6 or -8dB, and is completely unbalanced. As for my style, 99% of the time I adjust the level of a track AS SOON as I finish recording it. More times than not, I even add the reverb or whatever FX I want on it (this is because until recently, I've never worked with an engineer). Now, I try to send a few bullets of what it is I'm looking for.

So what advice would you give somebody like me who hasn't actually gotten placements yet and is simply trying to have a nice a-- mixes for tracks that they want to shop around? Keep in mind most of us are going to be willing to work with you guess online, so it's hard to convey every single thing you want done on a track until you hear it back. And I know time is money, so I've actually just taken mixes that I would have rather done some tweaks to simply because I was only pay $20 for it.

Don't do too much processing as soon as you record. It's important to get a great headphone mix though. That's what gets you the best vocal performance. But don't add a bunch of plugins during tracking. It causes latency and even milliseconds matter. Milliseconds can change the whole vibe of a take or whole track.

As for getting a mix, here is the secret. Use bussing and compressors in series. Several compressors working only a little will give you a more natural and glued sound. Sometimes you need -8db of compression, sometimes you literally need only -1db. Reverb and eq is the most important part of sculpting each sound and giving it space to live.

I do cheap mixing over the internet. It's kinda like something I do just to help people that need it. I charge just enough so I don't dedicate 5 hours for nothing but I do it very cheap. PM me if interested. I can also send back the session so you can look at it and see what I did. I can send it back in ProTools, Studio One or Cubase. I have Logic also but never use it.
 
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