So I'm pretty new to producing and recently I've been looking up tutorials on compression and limiting. Many people say to take off the limiter on the master and only put it on when you're mixing. The thing is, I wasn't aware of this and when I checked my master channel there was a limiter on it. I just finished a track and when I turn off the limiter the volume is a lot lower. I'm not sure what to do now, should I just leave the limiter on the channel or go through and mix everything over again? Plus some tips on limiting and compression would be helpful, thanks for reading.
Fruity Limiter on master channel?
- Thread starter MoSnow
- Start date
BeatGenerals
New member
I never use a limiter on the master track, makes the mix sound very "constricted" for lack of a better term, and kind of takes the life out of them IMO.
fataltone
Holy Lamb Media & Ent.
you should never put a limiter on a mix
unless you throwing it on in the end for strictly LOUDNESS MASTERING
so you can display it on Soundclick,Soundclick,your beatstore,etc..
but when you send out the beat that someone leases you send a version without the limiter
-Coach Antonio
exactly.
I wouldn't use anything on the master during the mixing process. Even if you clip, as long as you export in a floating bit format you don't have to worry about losing any audio data to clipping. So technically, you could clip during certain periods of your song, export in 32 bits, send to a mastering eng. and have a banging track at the end. If you still aren't comfortable with that you could always gain stage like the good old days.
fataltone
Holy Lamb Media & Ent.
see most ppl on this forum are producers
wanting to
1.share their production with the world
2.sell their production to the world (online beat store)
so they(including myself)
throw on a limiter at the end
some export to 32bit float 2-track
bring back in the two track and then add the limiter
so for display purposes in your beatstore and on soundcloud
LOUDNESS MASTERING is okay
because we all know a good mix is not going to be loud
at all at least that's my experience and what I hear from pro mix engineers
-Coach Antonio
JackRichards
New member
Limiter should only be put on your master when Mastering.
Its a bad idea to compose & mix with the limiter turned on.
You can't actually hear how loud things are getting because the loudest sounds are being compressed along with everything else that goes over the threshold. These things really can destroy a song if used improperly, and since they're not very well understood by many FL users starting out, I think they shouldn't automatically default to one on every master track.
It is a good idea to turn it on and set it up AFTER mixing the beat though
You can't actually hear how loud things are getting because the loudest sounds are being compressed along with everything else that goes over the threshold. These things really can destroy a song if used improperly, and since they're not very well understood by many FL users starting out, I think they shouldn't automatically default to one on every master track.
It is a good idea to turn it on and set it up AFTER mixing the beat though
ModernMixing
New member
Okay, why not join the party??
I feel like the limiter is a very crucial part of my mixing, I honestly wouldnt wanna be with out. However I normally dont start with one on because in the beginning of my mix I'm not focused on loudness just clarity, a nice sounding environment and something musical that moves. I normally add it on at about 75% through because I can't just throw it on and call it a day. Normally once you limit, something has been compromised. SI have to go back to the mix and make tweeks until I get the loudness but maintain the original sound as much as possible.
Lastly I dont like the sound of the fruity limiter at all lol but I love FL
I feel like the limiter is a very crucial part of my mixing, I honestly wouldnt wanna be with out. However I normally dont start with one on because in the beginning of my mix I'm not focused on loudness just clarity, a nice sounding environment and something musical that moves. I normally add it on at about 75% through because I can't just throw it on and call it a day. Normally once you limit, something has been compromised. SI have to go back to the mix and make tweeks until I get the loudness but maintain the original sound as much as possible.
Lastly I dont like the sound of the fruity limiter at all lol but I love FL
Whether there is a limiter on the master is irrelevant.
An argument can be made for not letting anything hit 0db (so that transients aren't affected) but getting rid of the limiter won't stop you hitting 0db, it'll just make it sound different when you do.
I think it might be better to say don't start mixing with a limiter limiting (since you should mix an unlimited version). But most people argue you should reset all the levels to 0 when you start mixing anyway... so again, its irrelevant.
(also I have to echo ModernMixing on the FL limiter. I don't use FL anymore but if it is the new limiter it is far from transparent. It has a crazy saturation thing built into it. You need to be very careful with limiters. It needs to DEFINITELY ABSOLUTELY limit BANG ON where it says it does, and that should be set to less than 0db... individual samples clipping is audible, hell.. subsample clipping is audible)
An argument can be made for not letting anything hit 0db (so that transients aren't affected) but getting rid of the limiter won't stop you hitting 0db, it'll just make it sound different when you do.
I think it might be better to say don't start mixing with a limiter limiting (since you should mix an unlimited version). But most people argue you should reset all the levels to 0 when you start mixing anyway... so again, its irrelevant.
(also I have to echo ModernMixing on the FL limiter. I don't use FL anymore but if it is the new limiter it is far from transparent. It has a crazy saturation thing built into it. You need to be very careful with limiters. It needs to DEFINITELY ABSOLUTELY limit BANG ON where it says it does, and that should be set to less than 0db... individual samples clipping is audible, hell.. subsample clipping is audible)
Last edited:
What do you mean exactly?
If anything, limiters by nature are designed to strike down any transients. The FL limiter has a "saturation" knob but if you don't want any added harmonics you can always just turn it off.
T
The Light
Guest
The limiter is supposed to be used in the mastering stage or to make your displayed beats sound loud like Fatal said earlier. Mixing is for clarity, panning, eq, etc. Mastering is the make it sound loud/played in any audio device stage. During the beat making and mix stages, nothing should be on the master channel. Why? Because you're not mastering you're beat making/mixing. Also, in FL Studio, maybe when you start a new beat you're choosing the "Basic with Limiter" template or it is on by default. This will have the 4 channels in the step sequencer and the FL Limiter on the Master channel in the mixer. When you start a new beat, go to File, New from Template, Basic (no Limiter) and the limiter won't be on the Master track unless you put it there.
What I meant is that all a limiter does is stop a signal going over a threshold. If the signal is hitting 0 then itll sound terrible without a limiter or sound OK but limitted with a limiter. Either way would distort whatever (usually transients) going over 0db. So what you want to avoid is hitting 0db, regardless of the limiter. And if you are not hitting 0db the limiter wont be doing anything.
Having the sound hit 0db while youre producing a track is maybe a bad thing or not, but like I said, if you are going to do a whole 'mix' stage you are probably going to completely redo all the levels anyway... so anything that was hitting 0db is going to be not hitting 0db when you being mixing.
As for the fruity limiter, IIRC changing the saturation knob radically changes the threshold of the limiter. Also, many would argue that a final limiter probably shouldnt be colouring the sound at all, let alone intentionally saturating the sound.
If the question is more about whether you should have a limiter that is actually doing a lot of work limiting the signal, before the mix stage... who writes the laws on that cos I haven't seen them. Im not even sure why I am required to think of mixing as a discrete stage in the production...
---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 PM ----------
I don't acknowledge any of these rules and don't see any reason to. You start making some music, then you stop making some music...and you have some music. That's it.
Having the sound hit 0db while youre producing a track is maybe a bad thing or not, but like I said, if you are going to do a whole 'mix' stage you are probably going to completely redo all the levels anyway... so anything that was hitting 0db is going to be not hitting 0db when you being mixing.
As for the fruity limiter, IIRC changing the saturation knob radically changes the threshold of the limiter. Also, many would argue that a final limiter probably shouldnt be colouring the sound at all, let alone intentionally saturating the sound.
If the question is more about whether you should have a limiter that is actually doing a lot of work limiting the signal, before the mix stage... who writes the laws on that cos I haven't seen them. Im not even sure why I am required to think of mixing as a discrete stage in the production...
---------- Post added at 05:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:23 PM ----------
I don't acknowledge any of these rules and don't see any reason to. You start making some music, then you stop making some music...and you have some music. That's it.
Of course there aren't any rules but those that do well breaking the rules at least know the rules they're breaking; that mixing to predetermined levels instead of to the sound of rest of the mix will have trouble yielding a better mix. Digital mixing is inherently lacking any sort of saturation. It is true that hovering close to 0db will soft clip in an analog system but it will do no such thing in a DAW. Even if your mix clips, as long as you export in a floating point format, you can simply turn down the mix during the mastering stage and everything is cake from there. By limiting "before the mix stage," you're setting yourself up for more IM distortion than you need.
Some people really like adding color to the master. It's why people send their masters to expensive analog studios with big warm tubes and transistors. I prefer to manually add harmonics myself with DSP... much cheaper and much easier.
I should probably stop... I feel a troll lurking nearby.
fataltone
Holy Lamb Media & Ent.
Marc
alot of the producers here need to worry about loudness
why??
because they are selling beats online(and the display beats in the beatstore player are loud(anything sent to the artist will be a mix without a limiter on the master and plenty of headroom)
and note, the artists that buy online
like loud beats(go to any Soundclick page)
If a artist has to turn up the volume up a whole lot or if they are listening on a laptop they will be limited by volume already so again a loud display beat is needed or they will just close your beat page and go to the next producer
loudness war man!!!!!!!!!
I'll let my man Bob Katz explain it(the K-System guy as well)
-Coach Antonio
Last edited:
Sammie Beats
New member
iZotope Ozone is way better
A lot..? how many is a lot? I think you'll find that the term producer goes far beyond people who make beats to sell on-line, and the definition of 'artist' includes a huge number of people who don't buy beats on-line. There's a difference between explaining why something happens and it being something good.
I know exactly why people do it. Making beats (whatever that means...) louder mean that they demand more attention and therefore are more likely to sell. That's perfectly valid reasoning. But, it has nothing to do with making good music. What's even worse is that the impression that it should be the case reinforces the impression that it should be the case. I think you'll find your man Bob sides with me on this one.
Further the loudness war is mostly inspired by things like MP3 players and car stereos being crap and running in crap conditions, not because of venue sounds systems. Venue sound systems will often pay money for better systems that can make things louder by linear amplification. So if these beats are aimed at artists that intend to use them in a venue setting, or to be used in a live/non-live production they should want uncompromised sounds, not brick wall squashed crap. If they just want to play stuff out in a venue then they should get a better sound system if they want louder. Even if all they want to do is put vocals on top, they should demand uncompressed sounds with enough dynamic range to play with. So really, who are the people who need to seek advice about dynamics? Some random producer or someone who just wants to play sounds they've bought on-line?
NB: Soon this will all be moot as the industry seems to be moving towards standardising levels of average volume, so pretty soon all those beats (whatever they are) will sound like garbage compared to tracks from decades ago.
I know exactly why people do it. Making beats (whatever that means...) louder mean that they demand more attention and therefore are more likely to sell. That's perfectly valid reasoning. But, it has nothing to do with making good music. What's even worse is that the impression that it should be the case reinforces the impression that it should be the case. I think you'll find your man Bob sides with me on this one.
Further the loudness war is mostly inspired by things like MP3 players and car stereos being crap and running in crap conditions, not because of venue sounds systems. Venue sound systems will often pay money for better systems that can make things louder by linear amplification. So if these beats are aimed at artists that intend to use them in a venue setting, or to be used in a live/non-live production they should want uncompromised sounds, not brick wall squashed crap. If they just want to play stuff out in a venue then they should get a better sound system if they want louder. Even if all they want to do is put vocals on top, they should demand uncompressed sounds with enough dynamic range to play with. So really, who are the people who need to seek advice about dynamics? Some random producer or someone who just wants to play sounds they've bought on-line?
NB: Soon this will all be moot as the industry seems to be moving towards standardising levels of average volume, so pretty soon all those beats (whatever they are) will sound like garbage compared to tracks from decades ago.