Do I NEED a preamp

Prodigix

New member
Okay. I have a Rode Nt1a but I am buying Neumann TLM 102 this weekend (Does this seem like a good upgrade). Anyway I Also have a Focusrite 2i2 which has a built-in preamp and an HP beats Laptop. My connection is like this

Mic>audio interface>Computer

But I read somewhere that a good preamp will make a Mic sound better but I do not know if my Focusrite 2i2 can give me the High quality I need.
My question is, do I need to buy an external (stand alone) preamp and connect that to my audio interface. If I do that, my connection will be like this

Mic > Preamp > Audio Interface > Computer.

I Only plan on recording vocals. Rap and Rock
 
With the FXs available in DAWs these days, this becomes a tricky question.

I will say this...there are plug in chains you can come up with to emulate the way a good pre and/or mic sound in a sh**ty room...problem is, you can't emulate a great room with all the convolution reverb in the world.

So...a better preamp and mic will sound great in a well treated room. If the room is already crappy, a good amp can't fix that, and plug ins can do just as good of a job as the amp in question. A good amp for lack of better words absorbs the warmth and grit in the room, if the room's not giving the sound, the preamp won't capture it.

Others can feel free to chime in with their answers, I feel like I don't know what I'm talking about everytime a convo like this starts. Maybe my ears lie.
 
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Get the mic, see how it sounds - if you're not satisfied with it, consider a different pre. Do note that the room, the mic and the performance itself will play a MUCH bigger part in the sound than the preamp. There are plenty of preamp shootouts on the web, so maybe look up some and see (erm, hear) how it is.
 
Get the mic, see how it sounds - if you're not satisfied with it, consider a different pre. Do note that the room, the mic and the performance itself will play a MUCH bigger part in the sound than the preamp. There are plenty of preamp shootouts on the web, so maybe look up some and see (erm, hear) how it is.
I'M looking for something in the $400-$699 range if I were to get one. I was looking at these


Grace m101
Focusrite OctoPre MkII Microphone Preamp
RME Quadmic
Focusrite OctoPre MKII Dynamic 8 Channel Mic Preamp w/Compressors
PreSonus Eureka Pro Recording Channel Strip Microphone Preamp


Anyone want to back these up or have any other suggestions
 
Anyone want to back these up or have any other suggestions

I got a request and an idea .

Can I hear some of your work (even a couple of phrase with vocs or acoustic instrument) ?
It would help form a point of reference from which can better help your endeavour .

Don't bother with the pre amp until all other avenues have been proven fruitless .
IE cover the basics and work from there upwards (see above request).
 
Nice one for posting a tune :)
Had a couple of listens , not my thing as an old fart etc , but I did get through it twice :P

I am firmly of the opinion that a new pre amp is not what you are looking for !
IMHO your vocals are too bright and cold , and too upfront in the mix .
Compounding this , you are nowhere near the high note at the end of each first line with the verse (?)
"She thinks I'm not good enough"

The EQ and mix is just a file edit in effect .
Soo , that leaves you with pitching correctly , try if you can put reverb on the headphone mix without introducing lag , it helps you hear the note you are singing .
Oh , and perfect practice makes ... :)

.... and ya don't have to spend a penny to that !
:)
 
Nice one for posting a tune :)
Had a couple of listens , not my thing as an old fart etc , but I did get through it twice :P

I am firmly of the opinion that a new pre amp is not what you are looking for !
IMHO your vocals are too bright and cold , and too upfront in the mix .
Compounding this , you are nowhere near the high note at the end of each first line with the verse (?)
"She thinks I'm not good enough"

The EQ and mix is just a file edit in effect .
Soo , that leaves you with pitching correctly , try if you can put reverb on the headphone mix without introducing lag , it helps you hear the note you are singing .
Oh , and perfect practice makes ... :)

.... and ya don't have to spend a penny to that !
:)

so your saying the problem is in the vocal performance itself. The bright and cold is the mic, the rode nt1a. I spent a week mixing and retaking that verse. No amount of mixing gets it right. So I got two solutions. Get a new mic "Tlm 102" and enhance my vocal booth (take down the sheets and put up some more foam"
 
Look , from the mix I heard , it sounded like a bright and crispy LDC (NT1A apparently) , and I suggested you could improve that with EQ .

Yes the performance sounds nervous and bad pitching , try and put some reverb into the headphones when you are singing/rapping/crooning ... whatever makes you more relaxed* and accurate as a rule of thumb (* IE not hammered !) .

Foam and booths is the acoustic forum ..........
 
Look , from the mix I heard , it sounded like a bright and crispy LDC (NT1A apparently) , and I suggested you could improve that with EQ .

Yes the performance sounds nervous and bad pitching , try and put some reverb into the headphones when you are singing/rapping/crooning ... whatever makes you more relaxed* and accurate as a rule of thumb (* IE not hammered !) .

Foam and booths is the acoustic forum ..........

Okay, and putting reverb in the headphones, do you mean addignreverb to the vocals, as in the entire vocal track
 
Upgrading your preamp is a good idea. Focusrite ISA One is 350 on ebay. Everyone who is serious about tracking vocals should have a high fidelity preamp. It may not be the reason why you're not satisfied with your recording but in the long run you will benefit from having one. (everyone will disagree)
 
Just my 2 cents. I was messing around comparing a few mics yesterday. Ended up hooking up a few other peices of equipment(always rearranging stuff in my studio). Right now, I've got a den area working as a makeshift studio with a laundry room that's halfway treated for vocals. Nothing professional at all.

Mind you, I have a Washer Dryer unit in my 20x35(fair estimate)"booth". Tile floor with rugs down to absorb sound, cheap charcoal auralex covering the wall in the section where I record, nothing fancy.

I can get significant differences from mic to mic, pre to pre, but nothing that cannot be emulated with stock plugs in Pro Tools. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills, but I keep checking coming up with slightly better(but nothing super significant) chains. Certain Mics give off less noise, certain pres sound better with a lil saturation on them(but I always record in the cleanest signal possible and add stuff like 'saturation" with effects to tracks as needed).

Preamps tested....

M-Box 2 - Been using it directly forever now since switching to a Mac. Clean signal, do notice it makes certain mics a little airy-er? But not a significant enough difference to bug me, especially when combined with the right mic.

Art Tube Studio V3 - Scary, always said this sounded cleaner than an M-Box, you can find these for super cheap now, it was like $70 when i bought it. Has a "fatter" sound to it, but not a better sound for mixing IMO. Sounds like they give you a "cheap fix" for guys who aren't going to take the time to get their vocals where they need to be. Once you start mixing you find crappy elements in the recording that sounded "fat" straight out the box but become an annoyance once you wanna clean stuff up. Still great pre for the price, but second look, M-Box 2 sounds better.

Then...the big boy...Avalon M5 - I get the idea this thing was intended for instruments or mine is "broken'(bought it off someone). The difference is definetly night and day to the others. Very warm, nice low cut, does an amazing job boosting signals, could be I expect too much for the retail price. I instantly know it's the winner, but then I start messing around with effects in the m-box 2 recording's channel. With just the 7 Band EQ in Pro Tools and Maxim(very slight ammount of limiting), I can get a close to identical sound. By "close to identical", I mean, I can hear a difference, but not enough of a difference to justify the price to a novice who probably won't get the best mix anyway.

My issue with my current setup is that it's in my den. I have kids that I allow to play on my gear, so I don't think I'll be leaving the M5 out. Will break it out a little more after hearing it again, but I couldn't recommend this type of upgrade as if it will change your input chain.

Same time, an M-Box 2 is a "$500 interface with pres", I'd recommend it over this Art Studio V3, so if other $500 Pres have a similar sound(don't have anything else to test in this same environment, but if my ears don't lie, most $500 Pres sound way better than an M-Box)and othe $100 units sound like the Art, I could see you going with the $500 pre. But I used to have a 1 channel Presonus Tube Pre I paid $100 for. Wish I still had it, because I would've tested it. Remember preferring it over my M-Box back when I had the option to run it directly to my soundcard.

Also, keep in mind I do hip hop. Only thing I'm recording is vocals and the occasional guitar. If you're going to be working with singers, a pre and choice of mic can make a dramatic difference IMO.

Hope some of this can be helpful. It's hard to compare chains because of all the factors involved. I've been in studios that sound better than mine running stuff like the Grace or that firewire M-Audio Unit, been in studios that sound worse than mine running a chain with the 2 Channel Avalon and vintage limiters(mainly because it was a studio ran by a rapper so he could "self record his albums" and he oversaturated everything nomatter how many times I told him not to).

Good luck with your purchase.
 
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