Noob frustrated with sound design

Kyrpto

New member
I've been working with FL Studio for the past month or so and what I found absolutely frustrating is getting the exact sound I want. Now I am a pretty well accomplished musician. I've been playing the guitar, piano, bass and drums my entire life. However this is my first time working with a DAW and my experiences are practically none existent. I have no problems with composition but finding the right sound or rather the sound that I want is the frustrating part. I mainly use Sylenth and Massive and I literally spend over half my time going through all the presets trying to find the right timbre which I think is a complete waste of time. So where do I start? I tried watching some tutorials on youtube but didn't really find it all that helpful. I wouldn't mind forking out some cash. I recently came across a website called Make Better Music - ADSR Sounds, Tutorials & Courses - ADSR which is subscription based. Is it any good? Any tips would be appreciated.
 
Well I think watching Tutorial videos on Massive and Sylenth taught me how to make certain sounds which in turn teaches you what things do, you can create the sound you are looking for from scratch if you have some kind of idea of how - I would suggest watching a few of the Computer Music masterclasses on Youtube, the Sub Focus one taught me how to use Massive automation for example.

There are also a LOT of soundbanks out there for additional presets that are of high quality and not too expensive. I personally now very rarely use the default presets, I either make the sound I want from scratch or if I do want to use a preset its usually from an add-on soundbank and then tweaked to my preference.
 
Well I think watching Tutorial videos on Massive and Sylenth taught me how to make certain sounds which in turn teaches you what things do, you can create the sound you are looking for from scratch if you have some kind of idea of how - I would suggest watching a few of the Computer Music masterclasses on Youtube, the Sub Focus one taught me how to use Massive automation for example.

There are also a LOT of soundbanks out there for additional presets that are of high quality and not too expensive. I personally now very rarely use the default presets, I either make the sound I want from scratch or if I do want to use a preset its usually from an add-on soundbank and then tweaked to my preference.

I watch youtube videos all the time and I would say it sometimes confuse things even more.
 
I can understand that would be the case, it all depends on the teacher I guess - I would definitely recommend the Computer Music Masterclass tutorials and the Future Music ones though - personally I am the first person ever who read the manuals to Sylenth and Massive to get my head round them first, then I followed all the "sound like artistname" tutorials as it really does teach you HOW to use them in various situations.

example;

I know that most dubstep artist use the Dimension Expander at about 25% on their basses for overall width and impact (just from watching lots of pro artist tutorials). I don't even make dubstep but you can use that knowledge for your chosen genre, I use the DE for most things now. Just an example
 
I had the same problem at the beginning. Just got into this in August of this year. Honestly I kinda just resigned myself when that happens - literally my workflow is just going into my DAW (Logic) and ****ing around to see what works. Not necessarily going in with any preconception of what EXACTLY I want.
 
I've been working with FL Studio for the past month... Now I am a pretty well accomplished musician. I've been playing the guitar, piano, bass and drums my entire life. However this is my first time working with a DAW and my experiences are practically none existent.

My problem with your post, lol. So you've been working with FL for a month??? A MONTH!!! and you say you're a well accomplished musician. How long did it take you to play guitar, play piano, learn the drums? Did you learn either of those things in a month?

I think what we are dealing with is the age old musician thinking, ahhh computers are easy, any one can do that, well welcome to our world.

Chill out, don't get frustrated, enjoy the ride, as you surely did learning those instruments. That been said, some musicians do not enjoy the technical side of programming in DAWs etc. They see it as taking all the fun out of the art, where as others like myself prefer to get buried in understanding the science.
 
The real question is.. are you trying to establish your own sound, or are you trying to "copy" another musician's sound?
Because if the answer to this question is the second part, I guess you're probably going to be frustrated for life :o

Just joking, but on a more serious note - What makes musicians "unique" is their sounds. And if you're talking about sounds that you hear in albums, you have to understand that these sounds have been heavily processed by a wide range of audio processors. I'm talking about so many elements that are taking place: Exact Instrument type, Microphone positioning & Microphone type. That's in the recording stage. In the mixing stage: Eq adjustments, Compressor settings, Reverb, Delays, Panning, sometimes Chorus or flanger. That's the mixing stage. Then there's also a mastering stage in which these sounds are getting even more tweaked - noise removal, multiband compressing, stereo widening, volume boost.

Your chances of finding another artist's exact sound are literally close to 0% unless you have access to all this information that I layed out here. At best you can sound "close" or "similar" to, but never exactly like it.

This is the reason why cover bands never sound exactly like the original band. They can sound either close to, better than, or worse than the original, but never exactly the same as the original.

So if that was your issue, don't be frustrated. You're trying to accomplish something that's literally impossible.

Instead of doing that, just focus on finding YOUR OWN, UNIQUE, sound. And that will establish YOU from others.

Hope this helped.
 
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My problem with your post, lol. So you've been working with FL for a month??? A MONTH!!! and you say you're a well accomplished musician. How long did it take you to play guitar, play piano, learn the drums? Did you learn either of those things in a month?

I think what we are dealing with is the age old musician thinking, ahhh computers are easy, any one can do that, well welcome to our world.

Chill out, don't get frustrated, enjoy the ride, as you surely did learning those instruments. That been said, some musicians do not enjoy the technical side of programming in DAWs etc. They see it as taking all the fun out of the art, where as others like myself prefer to get buried in understanding the science.

I think you misunderstood my original post. My problem is not with the DAW at all which I find pretty easy and intuitive to use. I just want a few good pointers on how and where to get started so I can get the sound and timbre that I'm looking for. I know you can't take shortcuts with these things and I'm not asking for advice on how to learn it in just a few days. Let me use the guitar as an example. If you want to teach someone the guitar you don't just hand them a guitar and tell them to "just practice" now do you? That's kinda what I'm trying to get at here. I can sit at my computer all day pushing buttons and messing with parameters in Sylenth and Massive but that would be the equivalent of trying to learn how to fly a jumbo jet by randomly pressing buttons.

Oh and btw, I did learn how to play the drums in a month :D I think just about anyone can do that.

The real question is.. are you trying to establish your own sound, or are you trying to "copy" another musician's sound?
Because if the answer to this question is the second part, I guess you're probably going to be frustrated for life :o

Just joking, but on a more serious note - What makes musicians "unique" is their sounds. And if you're talking about sounds that you hear in albums, you have to understand that these sounds have been heavily processed by a wide range of audio processors. I'm talking about so many elements that are taking place: Exact Instrument type, Microphone positioning & Microphone type. That's in the recording stage. In the mixing stage: Eq adjustments, Compressor settings, Reverb, Delays, Panning, sometimes Chorus or flanger. That's the mixing stage. Then there's also a mastering stage in which these sounds are getting even more tweaked - noise removal, multiband compressing, stereo widening, volume boost.

Your chances of finding another artist's exact sound are literally close to 0% unless you have access to all this information that I layed out here. At best you can sound "close" or "similar" to, but never exactly like it.

This is the reason why cover bands never sound exactly like the original band. They can sound either close to, better than, or worse than the original, but never exactly the same as the original.

So if that was your issue, don't be frustrated. You're trying to accomplish something that's literally impossible.

Instead of doing that, just focus on finding YOUR OWN, UNIQUE, sound. And that will establish YOU from others.

Hope this helped.

As for establishing my own sound or copying someone else's sound I would say a little bit of both. After all every musician has been influenced by someone else. The stuff you said about mixing is probably spot on for me as I have no idea when it comes to mixing. My main problem however is finding sounds that are complementary to each other. For example if I find a sound that I like, a lead synth for example, I would still have to find a compatible sounding bass, chord, drums...etc. And I have to go through all the banks and presets each time I have to do that and it's absolutely tedious. This is the part that's frustrating me.
 
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Although I said the technical programming in a DAW etc. This is in reference to all aspects of sound design, music creation with in it. Programming synths, lfo's, envolpes, filter, using distortion, EQ, compression, stereo imagining, not just the understanding of the DAWs lay out.

You should expect it to take longer to learn the full art of mixing and sound creation than it did to learn guitar. There is a lot to learn and it's a fun ride of experimentation.

There's also a lot more freedom to sound design, it's not quite like shown how to be played a chord. A chord is predecided, the technique well mastered. Sound design is more the crazy scientist in a lab. Randomly press buttons until that jumbo jet flys because there is no flying and there is no jumbo jet but there's plenty of buttons and with those buttons you can have a unicorn, a dragon, a submarine, a Unidragsub or if you want the Jumbo Jet.

All that been said though, lol! Just do as many tutorials as possible! read lots of books and you'll start to understand what things are.
 
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Although I said the technical programming in a DAW etc. This is in reference to all aspects of sound design, music creation with in it. Programming synths, lfo's, envolpes, filter, using distortion, EQ, compression, stereo imagining, not just the understanding of the DAWs lay out.

You should expect it to take longer to learn the full art of mixing and sound creation than it did to learn guitar. There is a lot to learn and it's a fun ride of experimentation.

There's also a lot more freedom to sound design, it's not quite like shown how to be played a chord. A chord is predecided, the technique well mastered. Sound design is more the crazy scientist in a lab. Randomly press buttons until that jumbo jet flys because there is no flying and there is no jumbo jet but there's plenty of buttons and with those buttons you can have a unicorn, a dragon, a submarine, a Unidragsub or if you want the Jumbo Jet.

All that been said though, lol! Just do as many tutorials as possible! read lots of books and you'll start to understand what things are.

Yeah I've been reading tutorials and watching videos like no tomorrow. I even have a few books on the way. What exactly did you do to learn this stuff btw? Did you get formal training?
 
And I have to go through all the banks and presets each time I have to do that and it's absolutely tedious. This is the part that's frustrating me.

This is exactly why I said welcome to our world. I personally love that. I've spend countless hours going through hundreds of sound banks and libraries, made many of my own. So many individual sounds are inspiring. Once you've spent at least 6 months coming to terms with your archive, you'll have a list of go to's. What you'll find is you'll hunt for a bass to match your lead, you'll find one you'll like, it'll inspire a new track all together and totally not fit with your current project. Start putting these to one side.

When you're learning to play an instrument, it's all pre decided, relatively easy, just go through the motions (not that I can) but the creativity side from with in DAWS, composing, placing instruments together is a sea of endless possibilities. If you are finding that tedious then perhaps you truly are a musician and not a composer.
 
Yeah I've been reading tutorials and watching videos like no tomorrow. I even have a few books on the way. What exactly did you do to learn this stuff btw? Did you get formal training?

I did music tech for just over 6 months very basic with a lot of unrelated stuff, photoshop etc (which ended up really useful to be honest) I left once I could afford my first equipment.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEjOdqZFvhY

That is an old video but explains everything about mixing, you'll have a right laugh watching it, it's cringe worthy.

Subscribe to Dave Pensado on youtube, you've got catching up to do. I don't watch them much now, I'd say the older ones are better, into the lairs, opens your eyes to the simplest of things.
 
This is exactly why I said welcome to our world. I personally love that. I've spend countless hours going through hundreds of sound banks and libraries, made many of my own. So many individual sounds are inspiring. Once you've spent at least 6 months coming to terms with your archive, you'll have a list of go to's. What you'll find is you'll hunt for a bass to match your lead, you'll find one you'll like, it'll inspire a new track all together and totally not fit with your current project. Start putting these to one side.

When you're learning to play an instrument, it's all pre decided, relatively easy, just go through the motions (not that I can) but the creativity side from with in DAWS, composing, placing instruments together is a sea of endless possibilities. If you are finding that tedious then perhaps you truly are a musician and not a composer.

Yes I do find it tedious but I never expected it NOT to be. It was tedious as hell when I was learning music. I even quit several times for crying out loud but I eventually made it through. I didn't make this thread to complain but rather for guidance.
 
In addition to what mitchiemasha said: rather than looking for the perfect preset for your song, either create your own sounds or only use your presets as a base which you can then tweak to get the sound you want.

I don't think searching for youtube tutorials on how to make specific sounds in your VSTs is a terrible starting point, but I find that those tutorials don't explain why they're doing certain things. Instead, try to learn your VSTs inside and out so you know how to get the sound you want.

For massive tutorials, search for Sadowick Productions on youtube. He has a Massive Tutorial playlist where he basically explains what everything in Massive does and how to use it. I found this really useful.

I also paid for a massive tutorial by ADSR Sounds about a year ago which was also quite in depth, but I preferred Sadowick's tutorials to be honest.

I hope this helps as it's my first post on here :)
 
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Yes I do find it tedious but I never expected it NOT to be. It was tedious as hell when I was learning music. I even quit several times for crying out loud but I eventually made it through. I didn't make this thread to complain but rather for guidance.

Ya man, unfortunately there's no way around it: learning virtually anything is tedious. I remember when I first started playing guitar almost 10 years ago. I figured "I'll start with learning Muse's hysteria"......without realizing I couldn't even switch smoothly between individual notes, let alone play chords and solos and bends, etc.

I wanted to quit, I HATED the guitar that first month. It was so monotonously boring. But with learning an instrument, mixing, beatmaking, etc, I feel like you reach different levels without even realizing it, so long as you keep trying to learn instead of sit around staying frustrated.

For me on the guitar, this was learning Foo Fighters - everlong on my acoustic. It was the first full song I could play.

Then I learned how to arrange a song on Garageband. Then I got Studio One 2 and some good gear, and learned how to program drums, properly use EQ, compression, etc which lead to my first mix. Then I got some guitar pedals which took some learning, before crafting my own sound. Now, I'm also trying to get more into synths and sound design, essentially learning from scratch. I can tell you, as always, that I'm SUPER frustrated. But IMO, all we can do is try and watch tutorials, learn via books, applying what we read, and eventually without even knowing it, you're already progressing!

The tutorials mentioned by the guys above are a solid start. I've also found andrewchellmanmusic's youtube channel to provide great tips on Maschine Mikro. This may not be relevant to you, but point is, look for lots of tutorials till you find one that's particularly helpful and communicates to you effectively, then just drown yourself in it until you need it less and less often.

Hope that helps. As you seem to be a talented musician, I think you have the tools to progress quickly. You just need to accept that frustration will happen and is a natural part of the process, and do your best not to be overly discouraged by it.

Cheers
 
start by learning what each of the knobs on a synth or vst do, then take some of your favourite presets and reverse engineer them by seeing what effect a dial has on the sound. eventually youll notice a pattern emerging and youll know which dials youll need to turn to make the sounds you want.
 

FL Studio is easy. You just need some better VSTs. If you know how to play the piano, you can buy a few piano libraries and start to play and add your recording to your songs.
 
Kyrpto,
I'm curious what your musical goals are, the genre you want to write songs in, and why you chose Sylenth and Massive. In all the tutorials you've followed so far, what level of knowledge have you gained so far? And, what kind of sounds do you want to create...OR would you rather have some solid presets to rely on (which is fine, too)? I'm just asking, because you mentioned being frustrated going through all the presets and not finding what you want. Often, a synth will come with lots of presets that A) are mostly designed to fit the genre the synth is known for, and/or B) showcase the awesome variety of features in the synth to give you inspiration for creating your own sounds. In either case, if that doesn't fit your goals then you'll be frustrated.

I'm hearing some good advice in this thread, but the best answer is going to depend on what your objective is.
 
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