Which Comes first? The Beat or the Melody?

C

ChamberSSL

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The Chicken or the egg question.

If you have a tight beat, does everything just follow?

Or If you have a Melody, do beat just drop in?































Really simple question.
 
If you already have one then neturally the other will follow.

Doesn't really matter which you make first, the product will be the same in the end.
 
I make melodies first everything else is 2nd. If by beat you mean drum patterns and everything else
 
I play around with the keyboard until I find something I can vibe with then I lay down the drums and bass basically.. I guess I use melody first then fit the drums into it. Most Producers I know do the drums first and then so forth.
 
Making music is art so there is no set pattern......just vibe off of whatever you're feeling at the time...Another thing I like to do is take the melodies and chop them up in my mpc so I can play with the sound a little more. However the beat has a lot to do with the feel of the song, so you know if you wanna make a club smash you're probably gonna have a hard hitting beat!
 
When i was on training wheels, i made the drums n stuff first, then i got the drums, and copied them into the bass channel, and just made some notes longer, different, added some, changed the volume, and i came up with a a bassline, and the bassline was the foundation, now its just, what ever comes first.
 
I like using samples...so when i find something I like, i chop that up as much as possible, then re-arrange and change them up to sound completely different, but good. Once I have a catchy melody, the drum pattern and everytthin else will follow.

There are times though that I will really like a particular drum pattern. So I use like short samples and play keys or something to complete that.

Both work depending on the feeling. I think vibe is more important than formula.
 
Xabiton said:
both. depends on what comes to me first

Exactly.


Thought I would post this question to see what other think and how they do there work.


Was a easy to answer/ your point of view question.


Where ever the groove takes you is where it goes. Right?
 
sleepy said:
If you already have one then neturally the other will follow.

Doesn't really matter which you make first, the product will be the same in the end.

Easy.
 
If you take it to a certain level, melody, and rhythm are the same. Melody is only combinations of frequency which are notes. They go together as well as they harmonize together, which is to say the harmonics of the notes are sympathetic, or they are dissonant and then they move to a resolution.

This is a creative question. It really is asking about the process of creativity.

There is a parallel concept in physics: wave versus particle theory. Matter and energy functions in both waves and in particles, just like music functions in rhythm and melody(and harmony). They are really both part of the same unified music. The way you approach creating the end result is not relevant. If you have a sonic "vision" then that vision will have both elements. Whether or not you record drums, rhythm, or melody, sing or play an instrument to get it down is still only a part of the whole, until it is constructed.

That means that you will be going with what works the best for you, and it could change from time to time. I play drums and some piano and noticed that I could be playing to a song in my head with the drums, or I could come up with a piano riff that I then easily came up with a beat that goes to. Each item really wasn't separate, they were connected by my mind, which creates the whole time-space-separateness illusion in the first place.
 
Each item really wasn't separate, they were connected by my mind, which creates the whole time-space-separateness illusion in the first place.

That doesn't really apply to all individuals in all situations. His dispositon that provoked him/her to ask this question, is obviously different.

In essence, yes, what you're saying holds truth. However, everything except time, ceases to exists, until realized. It is rule that exists next, and rule is nothing more than negative space that can only be inhabited by an opposing polarity (positive) -- or it will continue to not exist, a lot like possibilty or even magnetic poles. There is no possiblity without action, and thus reaction or counteraction. There is no opposition of magnetic fields, without reaction or counteraction.

If a person sits down with no preconceived idea, then like all things, there has to be a primitive start, to boot. It's only when a person has already developed a concept of form in their mind, that both rhythm and melody is realized, otherwise harmony would cease to exists. If all things where conceptualized as the same, or where initially all the same and not seperate, it would be monotonous...like that of the old monastery musics.

If I ask a question, have I already formulated the answer? Not really, I have only formulated a possible, a variable, a position that needs a resolution or counterpoint -- much like music or any artform, or philoshophy. If not, we would not have harmony, counterpoints, builds, bridges....we'd simply have an upward chromatic scale and a mechanical rhythm that complimented. In real life however we have to develop ideas, and this is the exact opposite of an "unified entity" that is only seperated by our "illusive" minds. It is the result that becomes the whole, and obtains space - and it is the difference in the seperate masses, superimposed, that creates the illusion of form, and thus positive space in time (or music in our case).

The only thing that is not seperate is unison, a common global bound of time. Without time, music could not exists, this is the only thing that is one, as time is the only thing that has always existed. However what shall inhabit time is a variable. An explosion could be contained in the same duration of time as a few bars of music, but surely it has no true melody. We could definately take a recording of this explosion and put it into the context of our notions (a song) though, but the song definately did not exist until we realized and percieved a use for the explosion.

Melody, harmony, rhythm, music, art, and philosophy are nothing more than conduits, proxies that allow us to lay form over our notion of time. It is thus our notion of time, and so follows space, that allows us to make art. Everyone has a notion of time, but not everyone can paint, make music, balance on the backs of horses, dance, et cetera. If melodic notion and rhythmic notion where not seperate, then we could all do these things, but all of us most certainly cannot. We instead have to learn to convey our subjective notions of all these things, to result in what is considered music.

Music, the combination of regularity and difference (rhythm), relation, reaction and procession, action (melodic, harmonious, tone). They are all indeed of time, but they are not (in my opinion) one. All they have in common is that they must exist through time.
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Ofcourse I'm not refering to the rest of your post, which I really agree with. I'm just commenting on the part that I quoted.

I'm definately not trying to thwart your ideas or opinions in anyway, instead I'm just sharing mine. You have a very interesting view, and I enjoyed the reference to the facts of physics and theory (which are true). My ideas are definately not "end all". Think for yourself, I enjoyed your thoughts. Thanks.

Xabiton, yes. Now hold your head in shame!
 
Hel, care to site your sources? that is a very intriguing post.

-Gil
 
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I wouldn't call them sources, instead this is just a theory based on miscellaneous theories, but still my own. If I were to throw about some names and topics though, I'd say definately look into Cesaro, anything you can about Canis Major or Shin in Time, anything about Astronomy (namely Greek), Guidonian's pre-standardized theories, George B. Bridgman's form theories, and such -- even Da Vinci or AuEhm master practitioners (Eastern shamanism). There's so much, and really no one source -- you just simply have to pick up pieces -- just for instance, time from astronomy, physics and math, form from master painters and composers, and so on.

It's interesting though, how Astronomers, Physicists, Philosophers, Mathematicians, Artists, Musicians and such have been evaluating the same things, remotely since the beginning. Those are just my oversights, my assumptions, and theory. But, ofcourse in the end, it's just that (even if based on facts that have been proven).
 
Also, the Bible! I'm not religious, but the Bible is a great text (for reference, and more) as a lot of the books were written by or inspired by individuals who themselves were great philosohers and scientist of their time. Ofcourse people will often say, "No, the Bible was influenced by God", but in truth, is God, or the idea of gods, not that which denotes math, science, and thus the medium of philosophy? It's almost paradox thinking.

Anyway, especially note the manner in which the documents utilize time and sound to illustrate aspects -- that's the best part (to me).
 
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