C
Cobalt60
Guest
got one.
ok, so I went and got a Denon DP-DJ151 from Sam Ash. I figure at worst I can return it for store credit, which I am sure I'll use. I will post a real review of it in a couple days, but here are my first impressions.
The platter out of the box is maybe half as heavy as the 1200's.
The startup is just as fast as a 12, as is the braking. This is true across the board - any variations here are nominal.
The ability for the platter to spin during skratching is slightly less than the 12's. This comparison is not that important for me, though. It did not affect my technique at all, and it was only noticeable when pressing really hard. If you have giant meat-hands, you may consider this.
Mine has a black slipmat - the one that is on the 101 in the above pictures - what's up with that? not that it matters, I use and love the ISP slipmats.
Using an Ortofon Concorde-style cartridge yields a loose fit between the cartridge and the tonearm. This is remedied by taking a rubber grommet off of a regular headshell - but this is not a problem with a 12.
The tonearm feels loose. I don't know if this is how it should be or if it is slightly defective. You know that feeling that a 12's arm gets if it's old and well-used. It's the problem that you need that eyeglasses screwdrived to fix - by tightening that tiny screw on top of the tonearm's bearing. This tonearm feels that kind of loose out of the box. You feel this if you try to wiggle the arm itself back and forth (lightly) against its normal path of motion. On a 12, this should be rock solid. On the 151, there is a little play, which makes a 'tiki-tiki' sound when jiggled. This seems problematic to me.
When hooked up to a quality system, the Denon actually produces more noise than the 12. This one really shocked me. This is true for both the Phono out and the Line out modes of this turntable. Obviously, I can't A-B the digital out, but if the other outs are this noisy, i can only assume the worst. This was a very disappointing result for me, as my original interest in this table stemmed from it being better in terms of the audio components.
The pop-up light has very little resistance to being pushed back down, and gets hotter than the 12's. This is actually a slight issue, as I have my tables 'battle-style,' or with the tonearms farthest away from me.
Then on to the more brutal tests:
During regular skratching, the table skips maybe 10% more than the 12. Basically, it does a tiny bit worse, but not that big a deal. If you have poor technique, or yeti-esque appendages, your results may vary.
During absurd skratches, or heavy platter-bashing stuff, the table performs much worse than a 12. Maybe 50% of the really fast scratches or very quick backspins, or light tapping on the record or other parts of the table (like at a party when someone bumps into the table) resuted in a skip. And here's the kicker: when this one skips, it skips like 10 grooves over! More later.
During doubling/juggling, these problems were more apparent. The record would do what it was supposed about half of the time, and jump to who knows where on the record the other half. Even more strange is that the platter speed - which is fantastic on all other points - does a terrible job of returning to its regular pitch when you push the record forward a bit. This one took me some time to figure out, because I don't do this all that much, but when doubling expecially quickly, the record will take maybe a whole rotation to return to the pitch if it is pushed in a non-exaggerated way. On a 12, it takes maybe a quarter turn, maybe less. Anyway, the difference is clearly audible on the 151 - very clearly.
Ok, so i will keep this until Friday. I will post in the next couple days a full review and my decision as to whether or not I will keep this. If anyone has any questions, feel free to email me or post. If you want me to run tests, tell me, and I'll see what I can do.
If the guy from Denon could tell me whether the tonearm issue is a flaw in my deck or just a design thing, I'd appreciate it. I can be more specific if necessary.
Later all, damn this was a long post, but I am happy that my curiosity is slightly more satisfied!
-Peter
ok, so I went and got a Denon DP-DJ151 from Sam Ash. I figure at worst I can return it for store credit, which I am sure I'll use. I will post a real review of it in a couple days, but here are my first impressions.
The platter out of the box is maybe half as heavy as the 1200's.
The startup is just as fast as a 12, as is the braking. This is true across the board - any variations here are nominal.
The ability for the platter to spin during skratching is slightly less than the 12's. This comparison is not that important for me, though. It did not affect my technique at all, and it was only noticeable when pressing really hard. If you have giant meat-hands, you may consider this.
Mine has a black slipmat - the one that is on the 101 in the above pictures - what's up with that? not that it matters, I use and love the ISP slipmats.
Using an Ortofon Concorde-style cartridge yields a loose fit between the cartridge and the tonearm. This is remedied by taking a rubber grommet off of a regular headshell - but this is not a problem with a 12.
The tonearm feels loose. I don't know if this is how it should be or if it is slightly defective. You know that feeling that a 12's arm gets if it's old and well-used. It's the problem that you need that eyeglasses screwdrived to fix - by tightening that tiny screw on top of the tonearm's bearing. This tonearm feels that kind of loose out of the box. You feel this if you try to wiggle the arm itself back and forth (lightly) against its normal path of motion. On a 12, this should be rock solid. On the 151, there is a little play, which makes a 'tiki-tiki' sound when jiggled. This seems problematic to me.
When hooked up to a quality system, the Denon actually produces more noise than the 12. This one really shocked me. This is true for both the Phono out and the Line out modes of this turntable. Obviously, I can't A-B the digital out, but if the other outs are this noisy, i can only assume the worst. This was a very disappointing result for me, as my original interest in this table stemmed from it being better in terms of the audio components.
The pop-up light has very little resistance to being pushed back down, and gets hotter than the 12's. This is actually a slight issue, as I have my tables 'battle-style,' or with the tonearms farthest away from me.
Then on to the more brutal tests:
During regular skratching, the table skips maybe 10% more than the 12. Basically, it does a tiny bit worse, but not that big a deal. If you have poor technique, or yeti-esque appendages, your results may vary.
During absurd skratches, or heavy platter-bashing stuff, the table performs much worse than a 12. Maybe 50% of the really fast scratches or very quick backspins, or light tapping on the record or other parts of the table (like at a party when someone bumps into the table) resuted in a skip. And here's the kicker: when this one skips, it skips like 10 grooves over! More later.
During doubling/juggling, these problems were more apparent. The record would do what it was supposed about half of the time, and jump to who knows where on the record the other half. Even more strange is that the platter speed - which is fantastic on all other points - does a terrible job of returning to its regular pitch when you push the record forward a bit. This one took me some time to figure out, because I don't do this all that much, but when doubling expecially quickly, the record will take maybe a whole rotation to return to the pitch if it is pushed in a non-exaggerated way. On a 12, it takes maybe a quarter turn, maybe less. Anyway, the difference is clearly audible on the 151 - very clearly.
Ok, so i will keep this until Friday. I will post in the next couple days a full review and my decision as to whether or not I will keep this. If anyone has any questions, feel free to email me or post. If you want me to run tests, tell me, and I'll see what I can do.
If the guy from Denon could tell me whether the tonearm issue is a flaw in my deck or just a design thing, I'd appreciate it. I can be more specific if necessary.
Later all, damn this was a long post, but I am happy that my curiosity is slightly more satisfied!
-Peter
D), but I feel if we strip the gimmicks and focus on the basics, the 1200 still sets the standard for pro performance in the TT game. And the looks, well I think we can't blind ourselves, only Vestax trie something really innovative w/ their vertical table, the PDX A2S deck. But IMO even Vestax missed the wagon on their idea, as I never saw they investing too much on the marketing and promorion of it - or maybe they just believe the old adage "if u can't beat them, join them" 