A Producers-Union?

spoken well Real 8

I dont think WHP means union by regular definition with monthly members fees and benifits n all that.

Instead its more like a business partnership between beat makers and producers. not to rule with an iorn hand, but to counter balance devaluation. The More established producers and semi established that join, the better.

I kno a lot of guys dont believe this union could work, even with other beat makers selling .99 leases.

but as long as there is consumer insterest, value, trust, hype, ect then it can survive.

there can be benifits to a group like this. especially if organized correctly, and seeing as I dont plan on going under $25 per lease anyway, then you can count me in
 
Or...here's a great idea...



HAVE THE HOTTEST BEATS AT THE BEST PRICES!!!!!


Yeah!!!!!



Have great beats. And great mixing. And great customer service. And great prices.




What's so wrong with just doing plain ole good business? Give the customers a reason to buy...I mean other than "we'll break your arm if you don't buy from us".



It's pretty difficult to punk out an IP address.
 
But i digress....we're still talking about the absurdity of a "producer's union". Let the discussion continue.
The only "absurd" thing I've seen in this thread thus far is your business sense.

It's easy to play armchair critic and gun everything down that isn't congruent with "Get yo 99 cent beetz here! Im K Floup!". Instead of pumping up yourself and your company, why not pinball some ideas around that attempt to benefit us all? Or is that $500/month you're making too sweet to give up?

I never said the solution HAD to be a producers-union. It can be anything. I just don't want to see our craft become unprofitable in 5 years. If you can't bring something to the table, then STFU and get back to churning out your 99 centers.
 
spoken well Real 8

I dont think WHP means union by regular definition with monthly members fees and benifits n all that.

Instead its more like a business partnership between beat makers and producers. not to rule with an iorn hand, but to counter balance devaluation. The More established producers and semi established that join, the better.

I kno a lot of guys dont believe this union could work, even with other beat makers selling .99 leases.

but as long as there is consumer insterest, value, trust, hype, ect then it can survive.

there can be benifits to a group like this. especially if organized correctly, and seeing as I dont plan on going under $25 per lease anyway, then you can count me in
Exactly.
 
Get it while its hot!

popcorn.jpg
 
Last edited:
I never said the solution HAD to be a producers-union. It can be anything.

That's better because using the word "Union" already steers peoples thinking and closes them off from thinking outside of the box for a solution.

There is a solution... people just won't be able to think of it on the fly. People should keep this a running topic and post any ideas they can come up with and let people run it around in their heads.

I'm pretty sure some grassroots idea could come out of a big brainstorming session.

So an out of the box solution is probably going to pop into somebody's head...

At least you guys are trying, I applaud that.

:cheers:

Wish I had more time to contribute but work is busy. If I think of anything, I'll post it.

I wish there was a way to block lurkers... they won't contribute anything and just try to ride off of what everybody else is posting. Once something gets hashed out, they'll join in. Damn lurkers.

Seems like there's going to be a lot of "I'm down!" without a lot of suggestions though.

I'll be checking things out. Good luck to everyone in their musical endeavors.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Why would people want to help their competition?

That's good question...

When Subway started killin' it with those $5 footlongs... they made everybody else come down to their level. Quizno's had to come up with the $4 tornado's...

It's hard but ... I think people can think of something. Gotta go way left field though.
 
Why would people want to help their competition?
If you haven't figured it out by now, close your internet browser and open up FL Studio.

It amazes me that people can't wrap their head around this.
 
flipn50 i liked your long outline. The fact is 99 cent beats might look appealing, but as you said what good are they when thousands of leases of the same song are out there. I don't think that serious aritists would object to decent prices which help quality and help ensure that if their track makes it big they don't have to worry about thousands of other artists having the same beat. Whats 25 or 50 bucks for a good lease if they can make something of it.

and this kind of 'union' wouldn't be illegal because there's nothing forcing people to comply, but if the majority of producers do adhear to it then everyone benefits.

Also I think skill is still important in this industry. Just because someone can have an old lap top and some ripped software and sell beats for 99 cents doesn't mean that their products can compete with those producers who are doing this seriously.
Ding ding ding... another member who isn't some hard-headed armchair critic. Nice to see.
 
The only "absurd" thing I've seen in this thread thus far is your business sense.

It's easy to play armchair critic and gun everything down that isn't congruent with "Get yo 99 cent beetz here! Im K Floup!". Instead of pumping up yourself and your company, why not pinball some ideas around that attempt to benefit us all? Or is that $500/month you're making too sweet to give up?

I never said the solution HAD to be a producers-union. It can be anything. I just don't want to see our craft become unprofitable in 5 years. If you can't bring something to the table, then STFU and get back to churning out your 99 centers.


Don't get mad 'Twan...


I have been PINBALLING round ideas. Nobody seems to want to take my ideas SERIOUSLY. I've been throwing around THE EXACT SAME IDEAS in BOTH THREADS for DAYS.


The solution is DIVERSIFICATION!!! The solution is VALUE ADDS!!!


The fact is, in the internet age, INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY IS NOT SAFE!!! If your product is able to be DIGITIZED, it's able to be, STOLEN, REPLICATED AND DISTRIBUTED!!!

So guess what...you add value, by adding things that CAN'T BE STOLEN!!!! You add INTANGIBLES to ENHANCE THE VALUE OF YOUR PRODUCT TO THE CUSTOMER!!!


Why do people go to TGI Friday's? They serve the same crappy food as Ruby's, Applebee's, Chili's, etc. But how does TGI Friday's differentiate themselves? How has Ruby Tuesday's started to differentiate itself, even though it's serving the same ole crappy food?




Muscling the market into paying a particular price doesn't work...nor does idle threats, or senseless "organizations" or public service announcements, pleading with the buyers...ask the RIAA.


The only thing that's going to work is you coming to a TRUE UNDERSTANDING of what your potential customers VALUE, and GIVING THEM THOSE THINGS THAT THEY VALUE!!





Don't get mad, get BUSY!!








(as a side note...things like this is what they teach you in college...in Management and Marketing courses...so to all the high schoolers reading, college has EVERYTHING to do with music production...cuz if you can't find a way to SELL beats, then you're SOL)
 
Damn these threads, while informative, can really kill a youngin's hopes for even making a lil scratch with his music. I'm thinkin "damn I won't even be able to make half a living off of th!s sh!t unless I sell a free pair of headphones with every beat."
 
Rome always always talking about FOOD. I'm hungry now. It's a jungle out there so conduct yourself accordantly. What's been working for me is real world relationships. They like...They buy! That simple.
 
Last edited:
Quick response about what Jtroup keeps reiterating about being the best. I agree,you should be the best at what you do,and convince the artist that you're the best, but now we have rappers asking better ppl for free beats looking like they're retarded.

I only see one thing truly happening with free beats,and it's that so many people get free beats that they don't even know what good service is anymore. Talk to the rappers,ask them where they plan to go with an album of 99 cent beats. I don't even like working with rappers much cus they usually want a "club banger" and make songs that will either be huge or ignored.

ROYALTIES

I have given free beats away,but only to artists that i truly believed in. If you're PROFESSIONAL you can give away a free beat and ask for a huge royalty percentage. Why with so many pros Royalties hasn't even been mentioned?
 
Damn these threads, while informative, can really kill a youngin's hopes for even making a lil scratch with his music. I'm thinkin "damn I won't even be able to make half a living off of th!s sh!t unless I sell a free pair of headphones with every beat."

Don't be discouraged...Get to work and grind. and I don't mean soundclick... Wtf is soundclick anyway!
 
Ding ding ding... another member who isn't some hard-headed armchair critic. Nice to see.

I'm not an armchair critic...but you have to look at what's REALLY going on in this market...


Tony_C said:
flipn50 i liked your long outline. The fact is 99 cent beats might look appealing, but as you said what good are they when thousands of leases of the same song are out there. I don't think that serious aritists would object to decent prices which help quality and help ensure that if their track makes it big they don't have to worry about thousands of other artists having the same beat. Whats 25 or 50 bucks for a good lease if they can make something of it.


The reality of the situation is that close to NO INDEPENDENT ARTISTS PUT OUT ALBUMS...everybody's putting out "mixtapes". Mixtapes of what? The same old industry beats, that have been rapped to a million times over again.

So they are already doing exactly what you're claiming that they won't want to do.


and $50 for a lease x 15 tracks is $750. Not to mention pressing, graphics, engineering, etc. A project can easily get up there...out of an independent artists budget range.


But the thing is...I find i hilarious that the same people talking about "they should be willing to pay $20 - $50 for a lease", are the very same people who weren't willing to spend $100 on a legal copy of the software that they are making to sell their beats...But that's another story.


Tony_C said:
Also I think skill is still important in this industry. Just because someone can have an old lap top and some ripped software and sell beats for 99 cents doesn't mean that their products can compete with those producers who are doing this seriously.


and if that's the case, then what are you worried about? Since 99 cent beats can't compete with yours anyway, right?
 
Rome always always talking about FOOD. I'm hungry now. It's a jungle out there so conduct yourself accordantly. What's been working for me is real world relationships. They like...They buy! That simple.



Okay... I'll get off of food, lol. Look at those printer companies... Canon, Epson, etc... I bought a 4 in 1 Canon printer for $25 the other month brand new from STAPLES.... the printer is the equivalent of a unmixed loop you want to sell... BUT to get printer cartridges for that printer, you're going to pay more than you did for the printer. The printer is the carrot.

To sell - whatever it is - you sell, you're going to have to have a carrot. It just so happens that beats /songs are the carrots now. Songs are the carrots to shows, they are the carrots to ring tones, they are the carrots to merchandise.

Figure out what your beats are the carrot to... are they the carrot to 3 more beats, a beat package deal, a remix of a song the artist already made, ... I could go on but lurkers would steal my ideas... damn lurkers.

I have ideas that I don't have time to execute... and from the tone of this thread... I probably won't post them here. You guys will figure it all out, I'm sure.


Damn went right back to a food analogy... lol.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I only see one thing truly happening with free beats,and it's that so many people get free beats that they don't even know what good service is anymore. Talk to the rappers,ask them where they plan to go with an album of 99 cent beats. I don't even like working with rappers much cus they usually want a "club banger" and make songs that will either be huge or ignored.

Beats have nothing to do with Services. Can you produce a SONG? Can you offer great mixing? Can you write and record a hook?

All those things are value adds, that increase your brand value. You might not sell as many beats, but you're selling more of the other services, to make up for that lost beat revenue.


ROYALTIES

I have given free beats away,but only to artists that i truly believed in. If you're PROFESSIONAL you can give away a free beat and ask for a huge royalty percentage. Why with so many pros Royalties hasn't even been mentioned?


Back end money is money that will never come.
 
Beats have nothing to do with Services. Can you produce a SONG? Can you offer great mixing? Can you write and record a hook?

All those things are value adds, that increase your brand value. You might not sell as many beats, but you're selling more of the other services, to make up for that lost beat revenue.





Back end money is money that will never come.

That's what I'm saying people now adays don't know what a producer does,when a rapper works with me i often end up rearranging the song,then i go listen to the other stuff they've done and it's random no subject songs.

Another thing is that now there's a separation,people don't know that they can have songs as good as the songs on the radio. I think the abundance of free beats is one of the factors that created that separation.
 
Back
Top