Anyone else sick of Lord Jamar?

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Olie

Olie

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This whole white rappers are guests in the house of hip hop so they shouldn't be allowed to speak about whatever they like is rediculous.

Think about it for a second, he's trying to segregate whites from having the same rights blacks do in hip hop. It's subtle racism.
 
Lord Jamar is about to make a come back thanks to djvlad.
I admit his comments have been out there, but that's who he is and now he's making money off of being a shock jock like star.

 
mwandishi said:
Lord Jamar is about to make a come back thanks to djvlad.
I admit his comments have been out there, but that's who he is and now he's making money off of being a shock jock like star.

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Wait...isn't Vlad white?
So he is not only being a whiny c*nt but he is a hypocrite too.
 
Never even heard of this guy til now. I was curious so watched a vid of his. The Internet is everyone's soapbox. I can find you 1000 videos of people spouting crap you disagree with. The above mention of a "shock jock" made me think of Howard Stern's age-old defense - "If you don't like what I'm saying, don't listen." Easy enough.
 
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Olie said:
This whole white rappers are guests in the house of hip hop so they shouldn't be allowed to speak about whatever they like is rediculous.

Think about it for a second, he's trying to segregate whites from having the same rights blacks do in hip hop. It's subtle racism.
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Black people are incapable of being racist in the same sense of whites because Blacks worldwide lack the power to make any discrimatory views have a institutional impact. A black person can say something offensive to a white person on an individual level, but its not racism in the sense of white racism towards Blacks in the US historically or the Afrikaners in S. Africa.
I do not condone some of the stuff Lord Jamar said, but its not racism.


These dudes just generating outrage and like the dude above said most young cats don't know nothing bout Brand Nubian
 
racism is not about institutional attitudes it is about personal actions attitudes and responsibility - the law may take an organisation (read government department, government agency, business, educational establishment) to court for entrenched policies that promote a racist attitude in the hiring and firing of people or offering of places to students, but generally they cannot be held responsible for the actions of individuals who act against organisational policy.

A racist is an individual who believes, rightly or wrongly, that people of other ethnic backgrounds are less able or competent than people who are of the same ethnic background as themselves - this is why we can say that Serbs and Croats are racists when confronted by each other - although some may argue that the real issue is one of tribal hatreds going back millenia
 
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I am not going to close this thread as long as we can keep it civil but tread lightly guys this is not something that is appropriate for FP.

mwandishi said:
Black people are incapable of being racist in the same sense of whites because Blacks worldwide lack the power to make any discrimatory views have a institutional impact. A black person can say something offensive to a white person on an individual level, but its not racism in the sense of white racism towards Blacks in the US historically or the Afrikaners in S. Africa.
I do not condone some of the stuff Lord Jamar said, but its not racism.


These dudes just generating outrage and like the dude above said most young cats don't know nothing bout Brand Nubian
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Bullshit.
 
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bandcoach said:
racism is not about institutional attitudes it is about personal actions attitudes and responsibility - the law may take an organisation (read government department, government agency, business, educational establishment) to court for entrenched policies that promote a racist attitude in the hiring and firing of people or offering of places to students, but generally they cannot be held responsible for the actions of individuals who act against organisational policy.

A racist is an individual who believes, rightly or wrongly, that people of other ethnic backgrounds are less able or competent than people who are of the same ethnic background as themselves - this is why we can say that Serbs and Croats are racists when confronted by each other - although some may argue that the real issue is one of tribal hatreds going back millenia
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racism without the institutional aspects means very little. The lasting effects that people talk about are often tied to institutional discrimination. The hutus were in power excluding the Tusis, group a excluded b because of x which lead to serious socio-economic contexts for group b, etc.
My position is that racism at the individual level is not an issue, its when these views are transferred to the group level and tied to resources the real damage begins.
For the record I don't agree with much of what Lord Jamar said, but I would classify him as ignorant rather than racist.
My view is that you cannot equate the racism directed toward blacks in the US (I'm talking in the US not elsewhere) historically with the views of individuals who lack the resources to make those views have consequences.
I do agree with Aamer, no bullshit there.
 
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mwandishi said:
Black people are incapable of being racist in the same sense of whites because Blacks worldwide lack the power to make any discrimatory views have a institutional impact. A black person can say something offensive to a white person on an individual level, but its not racism in the sense of white racism towards Blacks in the US historically or the Afrikaners in S. Africa.
I do not condone some of the stuff Lord Jamar said, but its not racism.


These dudes just generating outrage and like the dude above said most young cats don't know nothing bout Brand Nubian
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still racism just not an institutionalized government backed racism. Example. my black grandmother is extremely racist. She hates all white people. She thinks they smell, don't know how to cook, raise children, talk etc. She in general looks down on them. That's racism. It's just she doesn't have the power to express her viewpoints through some law to persecute them.

But in short we can def be racist it's just for the most part we can't enforce our racist ideas through laws and regulations. I think bandcoach said it best. Racism starts at an individual level
 
mwandishi said:
racism without the institutional aspects means very little. The lasting effects that people talk about are often tied to institutional discrimination. The hutus were in power excluding the Tusis, group a excluded b because of x which lead to serious socio-economic contexts for group b, etc.
My position is that racism at the individual level is not an issue, its when these views are transferred to the group level and tied to resources the real damage begins.
For the record I don't agree with much of what Lord Jamar said, but I would classify him as ignorant rather than racist.
My view is that you cannot equate the racism directed toward blacks in the US (I'm talking in the US not elsewhere) historically with the views of individuals who lack the resources to make those views have consequences.
I do agree with Aamer, no bullshit there.
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I can't agree with this. It's like saying a person with the mind of a serial killer who has no access to weapons has no way to commit murder. You can't solve the problem by ignoring any aspect of it.
 
As for lord Jamal, I feel tons of artists tread in hip hop as "guests". That has nothing to do with color, it has to do with CULTURE. Beastie Boys Search and Eminem are less "guests" IMO than say...Mel B of the spice girls when she did that solo album Missy produced.

Guests in any genre usually tread respectfully. Nelly's never tried to act like he was the biggest country star from his few singles that "treaded the genre". Mike Will isn't trying to act like he's the new Max Martin.

Hip hop was multicultural from day 1. It belongs to everyone.

I do find it funny though that whenever it's something that can be looked at in a positive light, ethnicities can lose total control of it when they once definitively were the foundation in it's creation...but we're stereotyped to be infamous for things we did not create. We didn't make welfare, guns, or the drugs that plague the streets of the US for example, we have no control over the way laws are put in place that factually hit us harder for the way our environments force us to interact with these things. Example, Meth is more dangerous and addictive than crack...which get's you incarcerated for user amounts and which gets you rehab? ...but that's a discussion for another day.

All I'm saying is, I hope anyone who get's "pissed" when Lord Jamar spits his nonsense get's just as pissed when people say things like "had to be a black person who did it" commenting on a crime taking place. Because if you're not willing to share the negative, why should we want to share anything positive we have left?

My view is we're all human beings, but I can understand ethnicities wanting to hold on to what we do have. We're not allowed to claim much.
 
deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
I do find it funny though that whenever it's something that can be looked at in a positive light, ethnicities can lose total control of it when they once definitively were the foundation in it's creation...but we're stereotyped to be infamous for things we did not create. We didn't make welfare, guns, or the drugs that plague the streets of the US for example, we have no control over the way laws are put in place that factually hit us harder for the way our environments force us to interact with these things. Example, Meth is more dangerous and addictive than crack...which get's you incarcerated for user amounts and which gets you rehab? ...but that's a discussion for another day.

All I'm saying is, I hope anyone who get's "pissed" when Lord Jamar spits his nonsense get's just as pissed when people say things like "had to be a black person who did it" commenting on a crime taking place. Because if you're not willing to share the negative, why should we want to share anything positive we have left?

My view is we're all human beings, but I can understand ethnicities wanting to hold on to what we do have. We're not allowed to claim much.
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Let me drop a recent event in my life with the whole people saying things. Wifey comes home a couple weeks ago from work and tells me about a young (25 yrs old, from Indiana) white guy at work talkin about how "It's young African-Americans who mostly steal." My wife explains that its MF like you who are getting away with it because the stores focus are on the "young black and brown kids". Now fastforward to a few days ago. Wifey new someone was getting in her locker at work and taken cigarettes and some of her prescription meds for the past few months. She suspected old boy but never caught him till the other day. She caught this same POS in her locker diggin through her purse with his lock in her hand. He looked up at her and was like "What? I was lookin for a cigarette." She snatched the lock from him and walked him to the boss and told him "you are going to tell on yourself." He tells her "Well can I get a cigarette?" She was like "F*** NO. So, after telling on himself he just walks outside to take a break. When he was outside the boss saw him smoking a cigarette. So the cigarette story was BS he was looking for the pills.

Again, same white guy who said "It's young African-Americans who mostly steal." With emphasis on the "African-Americans. He was fired and the boss wants to know if she wants to press charges. At first I said no he lost his job good enough but thinking about it I figure if it was his wife or mother and an African-American did steal from them he would tell them press charges to the fullest extent of the law. So f*ck it, she's gonna press charges. They have him on video, so ain't no denying it.

Other than that I will leave the rest of the convo alone.
 
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Being an ambitious Black man, I've had countless racist experiences. What suprised me is the racism and bigotry I experienced pursuing higher education and subsequently my experiences working for a few Corporations. Institutional racism is a whole other can of worms that often gets overlooked. Society tells us that it fears Black criminals. What they dont reveal is that they fear educated Blacks even more. Even with that said, I still treat all people as individuals and I'm trying to get to the point where even a racist person wants to do business with me because it's a lucrative experience. I truly doubt that Diddy, 50, Jay Z and Dr. Dre are truly liked by their all of their business partners. As far as Lord Jamar, he's got too much free time on his hand. He's definitely bitter. He needs a job like the other member of the group Sadat X. who works as a teacher during the day and raps in the studio at night. I know many bitter souls Lord Jamar's age. The 40's can be rough as shyt if you dont reinvent yourself. The sad thing is Jamar used to act on that HBO series OZ and he was a pretty good actor.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJQjukEYPL4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TRiGFFZvXf8
 
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racism is something that seems to will never cease to exist.
even for the green and purple people on planet neptahn.
 
let us not forget about inverted racism - where you are labeled a racist not because you are, but because the person who is saying it is.

I have several experiences of being accused of being a racist by young Australian Aboriginals who promptly get put into line by their parents once I explain and demonstrate my long term friendships with prominent Aboriginal Elders in other communities (I have worked in 9 different towns over my life so far)
 
Meh. I should've known better than touch this topic. This is a music site.
That said, my main point is that individual acts of discrimination are not the problem, but when a group has the ability enforce these views with an institutional structure.
The stand your ground law in Florida runs much deeper than George Zimmerman, the stop and frist policy in NY is about more than just crime.
Lord Jamar is ignorant to ignore the history of hip-hop before him with Rick Rubin, the Beastie's, and even Third Bass. i do not consider him racist because he lacks power. The historically oppressed group cannot engage in racist activities because they lack the resources of the dominant group. Power is a critical attribute of racism whether you guys realize it or not.
My apologizes for opening this can of worms.
 
Turning back to Lord Jamar's claims about HipHop/Rap... One point he makes is that Action Bronson sounds like Ghostface, and he's afraid new kids will credit Bronson with the style rather than doing their history to find Ghostface. THAT, I can understand, but I still don't see that as necessarily a racial issue. That's musical history, and listeners are guilty of forgetting the originals all the time, in all genres.

Some Rock kid might say "I'm influenced by Pearl Jam.." Well, that means you're also influenced by Led Zeppelin and The Who, who were influenced by Little Richard and American blues artists. But that Rock kid isn't going to say "I'm influenced by Little Richard", and not with a racial undertone, just generational ignorance. A copy of a copy of a copy is never as clear as the original, and I can get behind someone who wants to at least make that known, so new fans can understand the true foundation of what they're listening to.
 
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