Producer\Production Points!!!

[dwells]

ask them who their main enternainment clients are

 

[sexotique]

Hello there

This thread has proved very helpful thank you.

I do have one more thing to ask though so get full clarification..

If I'm dealing with two producers producing the entire album, is it excessive if they ask for 4 points each?

That being a total of 8 points on a 12-13 track album is alot!

One of the producers is a superstar producer who could help enhance the success of my album....

What do you think?

 

[bknot1]

^^ I have to say no it isnt excessive..if someone is producing you whole album ..depending on how much you paid for the tracks..and you say you have a superstar producer on the track..3-5% is normal for whole production..plus a superstar producer could get 5-7% easy...

unless you will be puching over 100K they might not see any money from it anyway...if its a indie release...

let us know where we can listen to some of your work..and when the album drop

 

[dvyce]

If I'm dealing with two producers producing the entire album, is it excessive if they ask for 4 points each?

That being a total of 8 points on a 12-13 track album is alot!

You do not understand how this works.

A 4% royalty on 2 songs of a 13 song album is NOT 8%.

You get 4% prorated by the number of total songs on the album.

For example, if the album is $10, you say 4% of that is the producer royalty (=40cents)... then you, as a producer of 2 songs with a 4% royalty, get 2 thirteenths of that 40 cents...

you divide the 40 cents by the number of songs on the album, then you multiply that number by the amount of songs you have on the album.

...and it is even less than that because there are all sorts of deductions that the label takes to pay for various costs.


so, that is a slightly simplified explanation of how it works.

 

[Keef Beetz]

brugh dis sitev is the best **** i seen in a long time. right on time

 

[Omizz]

Question

ok thats makes sense but what if you produced the music on 10 songs and the songs will be sold on the internet for 99cents a peice and you ask for 4% royalties how much would that be per song?

 

[deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup]

Is this serious? I'm saw some really wrong advice here.

In hiphop, the term 'producer' is usually missed used. If you made the beat, you are a writer. A songwriter. In books the term producer refers to the person who is responisble for the project, the maintain the budget and oversee the entire project. They get no writers share, unless they actually wrote anything.

In urban music usually the song is broken down into 2 parts; music 50% and lyrics 50%. this all depends on the individual arrangement, what it says in paper. If you sample that is concidered to be part of the music. The sampled artists get thier money from the producer(beatmaker)'s money first. If they want more than 50% it starts coming from the artist money. But all this depends on the particular arrangement all parties concent to.

Also advances can be negotated from 'advance' to 'fee'. an advance is recouped and a fee is non-recoupable.

Not sure if anyone corrected you yet, but you're describing the job of "EXECUTIVE PRODUCER" not "Muisc Producer".

When Christina, Britney, or AC/DC do albums they often get multiple "producers" for individual songs no different than hip hop. The "EXECUTIVE PRODUCER" is a completely different job.

Sidenote: DVYCE has given great posts in this thread, but the percentages you guys are making him quote are kinda unrealistic. The Artist who's album you're producing usually gets somewhere between 4-8 points. 12-16 if they are huge artists and the label is fighting for them. Under those type circumstances, the artist is raping the label! So what makes you think as a producer you're entitled to 3-4 points for doing 1 song on a 12-18 track album unless you're a well established producer? And if you are getting that, you're cutting into the production budget and leaving others on the album scraping up 0.2 points, lol.

Keep in mind there are albums done entirely by 1 producer, they usually get better negotiations because they pretty much act as "in house", so rather than spreading 12-16 advances and 0.5-3 points between 12-18 producers, the label makes a bigger profit by giving you $75-100k and 10 points. But trust me, the politics are rediculous. It all boils down to the contract, it's not unusual for clauses to come in where X ammount of records must be sold before you recieve points(100,000 is a common number). Then think of variables like an advance, how big of a producer you are, sample clearances, multiple placements for the same song(ex. Swagger Like Us was supposed to be on Jay and T.I's album), you producing a song, but the label bringing in someone to rearrange and add new stuff to it.

But again, no need to overthink this until you have a contract in your face with an advancement(if any), and points. As common as the contracts are, no 2 deals are exactly the same. Therefore the numbers I just quoted may seem rediculous to some people as well.

I could see 3-4 points off some underground sh*t that sells 1,500 copies, but an exec at Def Jam would put a cigar out in my face and laugh if I asked for that on a Rick Ross album, now if Timbo asked for 5-8 they'd still take him very seriously.

Politics, people!

 

[Omizz]

Hear My Music @...

Everybody can check out the music I produced for "Rtime Inc & Rcity Records" @ myspace.c/rcityrcds and you can also hear more of my music productions @ myspace.c/omarojay
Ihiphop.c/omizz and Beatswagger.c/omizz... check me out and see what you think!!! holla at cha boi OMIZZ!!!

Im aware of the differences between Music Producer and Executive producer. The problem is narrowing it down to wich part I play in the whole project and figuring out how much I get paid,because I did alot in the production of most of the mixtape songs. I have done many one and done projects where I have charged a up front fee but in this case I made (produced) the beats for 10 songs on this labels mixtape cd and I want to get paid with points because it is an indi label plus they're selling the songs online for 99cents each so im tronna figure out how much I should ask for in my contract...and knowing that industry payment would break down to like 0.369 for 4% royalties on each song that puts a frown on my face simply because I kno that this indi lable is not goin to sell no 100,000 units...they will be luck if they sell 4 on mixtape songs more than 2wice,

Im aware of the differences between Music Producer and Executive producer. The problem is narrowing it down to wich part I play in the whole project and figuring out how much I get paid,because I did alot in the production of most of the mixtape songs. I have done many one and done projects where I have charged a up front fee but in this case I made (produced) the beats for 10 songs on this labels mixtape cd and I want to get paid with points because it is an indi label plus they're selling the songs online for 99cents each so im tronna figure out how much I should ask for in my contract...and knowing that industry payment would break down to like 0.369 for 4% royalties on each song that puts a frown on my face simply because I kno that this indi lable is not goin to sell no 100,000 units...they will be luck if they sell 4 mixtape songs more than 2wice,

 

[dwells]

nope, i discribed a writer, aka beatmaker, aka producer.

fyi, the 'Executive Producer' is just another way of saying the guy who is signing the checks(not royality check, checks to the studio, engineer, etc), aka the dude paying for the album. sometimes the person who controls the creative direction of the album.

Simply as a writer you are entitled to how much you negoitated on the split.

Please learn more about the publishing game, or you'll get hosed.

 

[deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup]

^^^^^
"In books the term producer refers to the person who is responisble for the project, the maintain the budget and oversee the entire project."

That's your quote, my dude. Sound's like exec prod. to me. Some producers handle all this, but don't act like all or even more than a handful do. You tellin me XTina doesn't have a different "producer" doing a well acknowleged "good job of...PRODUCING" for every song on her "Stripped" Album? Or are you telling me Xtina is hip hop and people like A.Keys, Dallas Austin, ect. should've only gotten writing credits rather than PRODUCTION credits as well? Or are you just telling me that they didn't do their full job and are half-assed producers? lol.

So maybe you need to recheck your last statement I quoted and see that you had flawed statements. Don't come at me with that novice "learn your pub game" bullsh*t and the throw in semantics.

 

[dwells]

"In books the term producer refers to the person who is responisble for the project, the maintain the budget and oversee the entire project."-- yes that does discribe a exec producer. and they recieve points also, but rarely a split.

I was trying to explain the difference between a writer/beatmaker/producer and the other type of producer, the one you are talking about, the exective producer. as i explained earlier the term producer is toss around in this industry and confuses people. Instead of worrying about titles, worry about what you are doing. then find out exactly where you fit in. other wise you will be taking for a ride. If you make the beat you are a writer, meaning you are entitled to a split and points. just because you are a writer does not mean you half assed, i don't understand that statement. many writers produce. many artist produce themselves and give the writer the production credits.

IF YOU MADE THE BEAT AND 'PRODUCED' THE RECORD, YOU ARE ENTITLED TO MORE THAN THE POINTS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!

fyi a normal split is 50-50, meaning you are entitled to half of the publishing

unless you have a pub deal

 

[AJacksProductions]

this thread talked alot about royalties for album sales but what about radio play?

 

[deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup]

"In books the term producer refers to the person who is responisble for the project, the maintain the budget and oversee the entire project."-- yes that does discribe a exec producer. and they recieve points also, but rarely a split.

I was trying to explain the difference between a writer/beatmaker/producer and the other type of producer, the one you are talking about, the exective producer. as i explained earlier the term producer is toss around in this industry and confuses people. Instead of worrying about titles, worry about what you are doing. then find out exactly where you fit in. other wise you will be taking for a ride. If you make the beat you are a writer, meaning you are entitled to a split and points. just because you are a writer does not mean you half assed, i don't understand that statement. many writers produce. many artist produce themselves and give the writer the production credits.

IF YOU MADE THE BEAT AND 'PRODUCED' THE RECORD, YOU ARE ENTITLED TO MORE THAN THE POINTS YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT!!!

fyi a normal split is 50-50, meaning you are entitled to half of the publishing

unless you have a pub deal

Damn, broken record, lol. What I highlighted was all that needed to be said, that's all I disagreed with you on.

As for your 50/50 analogy, under the circumstances that no 3rd or even 4th party is involved(performers do negotiate percentages, not uncommon at all, you think whitney's never recieved a royalty for singing a song someone else wrote and produced? What about artists who feature on songs? Co-Writers, Keyboardists, there's millions of scenarios, and as I said before, no 2 contracts are the same).

Now let's stay on this 50/50 thing a little longer. Say I(as in a nobody producer with a few credits coming up named deRaNged) "produce" 1 song on an 18 track compilation album that's performed by Beyonce(you know she getting paid) that is written by Babyface(cha-ching) but isn't released as a single.

If you beleive I ain't gonna get f**ked out my publishing and I'm gonna get 50/50 I'mma have to call you a damn lie or a dude who knows nothing about that type thing to your face.Will I still make a sh*tload of money, hell yes, will I establish enough of a name that next time I get my cut, of course, but I'm gonna be the last to get my cut, and if I go against it, they'll find a hungrier producer and redo the song.

I a world where life is fair, what you're saying would be correct, but that shows your booksmarts over real world experience. Next you'll tell me promoters give you half upfront and the rest after you perform? Or that producers clear every sample they use?

There's alot of people who didn't get f**ked out of pub because when the label tried, they knew too much, guess what they get instead? Click, ringtone and not another call on the matter.

 

[dwells]

50/50 usually. but working with top tier artist is not a usual circumstance. especially for a nobody producer. but now your are talking about the game, not the business. this industry is ran on leverage more than business. the game is more difficult than the business aspect. I know for a fact that there are 2 noname producers on one of this years biggest projects, but i can't give any details, yet. nothing is concreate in this stuff, but people must know the starting points so they can negotate. that is something i'm working on, my leverage game. my business is fine, my leverage game is in the process.
there are many aspects that affect the split, i'm surprised you didn't mention sampling in the splits.

 

[deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup]

^^^I never indicated that I was referring to "hip hop production" either. I tried to stay away from cliche' hip hop production situations because your 1st post on the matter indicated "Hip Hop Production" as a devolved form of writing. So I gave Pop and R&B references to support my views instead of going the hip hop route.

But without realizing it, we're both totally agreeing. Leverage is everything in this business.

 

[dwells]

Pop, hiphop, and R&B are now the same. but i think we are both saying the same thing

 

[Omizz]

nope, i discribed a writer, aka beatmaker, aka producer.

fyi, the 'Executive Producer' is just another way of saying the guy who is signing the checks(not royality check, checks to the studio, engineer, etc), aka the dude paying for the album. sometimes the person who controls the creative direction of the album.

Simply as a writer you are entitled to how much you negoitated on the split.

Please learn more about the publishing game, or you'll get hosed.

I think yall have miss understood the whole purpose of me asking my question...it was not to offend anyone or act as if I already kno alot about the industry because I dont and thats is why I asked the question about breaking down ROYALTIES for a producer who gets 4% royalties on a 10 song mixtape if each song is sold on the internet for .99$ each so u could explain it with a little more depth for me, I was not asking about doing executive producing or music producing or producing period only the royalty process so yall missed what was asked totally...but thanks for the attempt I guess

 

[deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup]

I think yall have miss understood the whole purpose of me asking my question...it was not to offend anyone or act as if I already kno alot about the industry because I dont and thats is why I asked the question about breaking down ROYALTIES for a producer who gets 4% royalties on a 10 song mixtape if each song is sold on the internet for .99$ each so u could explain it with a little more depth for me, I was not asking about doing executive producing or music producing or producing period only the royalty process so yall missed what was asked totally...but thanks for the attempt I guess

You see them highlights?

*Cop from Menace II Society Voice* You know you f**ked up, right?

lol,

It's a forum, we just expanded the convo, I apologize for knocking your thread off topic, but in all fairness your question had already been answered in depth.

Pop, hiphop, and R&B are now the same. but i think we are both saying the same thing

Now if you said that in the beginning, I would've agreed with you. I got the impression you were targeting hip hop as being the only "genre that didn't play by the book". My big issue with what you said was all the other genres where "producers" interact the same as in hip hop.

 

[Omizz]

You see them highlights?

*Cop from Menace II Society Voice* You know you f**ked up, right?

lol,

It's a forum, we just expanded the convo, I apologize for knocking your thread off topic, but in all fairness your question had already been answered in depth.


Now if you said that in the beginning, I would've agreed with you. I got the impression you were targeting hip hop as being the only "genre that didn't play by the book". My big issue with what you said was all the other genres where "producers" interact the same as in hip hop.

lol I hear you bra...im new to this fourm thing anyway, i looked back through the threads and I kinda gotta better idea of everything...its jus hard tronna get info that will help you when you doin buisness because you never kno who is out there trying to snake you or help you...you feel me...thats why Im tronna learn as much about the music buisness as I can

Shout out to all the hot producers check me out at myspace.com/omarojay

Shout out to all the hot producers, check me out at myspace.com/omarojay

 

[illapino]

also remeber your Advance is subtracted from your royalties due..

So, according to what you're saying, it sounds like there are three payments towards producers:

(1) Beat Purchase
(2) Advance
(3) Royalties

Because when you're talking about an 'advance', I hope you're not confusing it for 'beat purchase' ... I can see why Artists should get 'Advances', but I don't see why producers should get advances ... If Timbaland gets $50,000 from a beat purchase, why would they want to give him an advance?

?