Reason 4.0 Better Than All Hardware?

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Sycopath7

New member
So i went into guitar center tha other day, just to check out whut synths and workstations they had there.. so after about half an hour of juss lookin at fantoms and motifs and stuff like that i decided to go an talk to one of tha people that worked there to see what he thinks.

so i told him that i make beats and i use Fl Studio w/ vst like Hypersonic 2/Nexus blah blah... i said to him that i can make a real hot beat or whutever, but when i listen to a beat on tha radio the actual sounds used in the beat sound of a higher quality than the sounds i use. i specifcally said to him, the strings, pianos, brass and synths instruments sound alot better than mine. so i asked him "what kind of workstation or keyboard should i purchase if i wanted more realistic, a larger quantity of, and better quality brass/horns, pianos, strings, synths?"

so he took me back to where i was at checking out the keyboards and showed me a motif. he played a cuple patches on it and it was pretty hot. but then he said but for even cheaper there is something better that isnt even in this room, and said Reason.

so he told me some of tha advantages it has over hardware in general and it got me thinking. is Reason 4 better than Motifs? Fantoms? Roland V Synths?

it just doesnt seem true, keep in mind im looking for sound quality, synths and brass and strings and all that ****... does Reason have better sounds than Hardware? i rilly want to kno before i go an buy a midi controller, a new computer and Reason 4

sorry for the long post, thanks.
 
Reason is pretty amazing, im learning it now bit by bit daily and i learn something every day dat has me like "Damm, i didn't know it could do dat"
 
Reason + Sonic Reality Gold Collection Refills (and a few other honorable mentions ;) ) > ALL


lol
 
The good thing about reason 4 is there are like over 15 instruments in the rack already. Not to mention all the compressors, reverbs, delays, and the appregiator. There are a **** ton of refills for all the synths and you can tweak the synts to make it sound like anything you want really. You just gotta layer the audio to make it sound full.

**** FL people.
 
Sycopath7 said:
so i told him that i make beats and i use Fl Studio w/ vst like Hypersonic 2/Nexus blah blah... i said to him that i can make a real hot beat or whutever, but when i listen to a beat on tha radio the actual sounds used in the beat sound of a higher quality than the sounds i use.
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A lot of this is due to the combination outboard equipment and technical know how available to professional producers. No matter how fancy of a workstation you get, if will never be able to touch the reverbs and delays afforded by a unit such as an Eventide H8000.

Sycopath7 said:
i specifcally said to him, the strings, pianos, brass and synths instruments sound alot better than mine. so i asked him "what kind of workstation or keyboard should i purchase if i wanted more realistic, a larger quantity of, and better quality brass/horns, pianos, strings, synths?"
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I don't think that a workstation is generally the best solution for any of those. What a workstation gives you is a composition tool that can be used away from the PC, and as a performance tool when live backing tracks are needed.

Using one strictly as a preset bank is a bad way to spend your money. For acoustic sounds like horns, pianos, and strings, you should be looking at sample libraries like (in order of least expensive to most expensive) Garritan, East West, and Vienna Symphonic Cube. These libraries offer you gigabytes upon gigabytes of uncompressed multisamples, with multiple sampled intonations for each instrument. Compare this to a few megabytes of horribly compressed samples on a workstation like a Motif.

For synths, you should be looking at actual synthesizers, like the Access Virus and Alesis Andromeda.

Sycopath7 said:
so he took me back to where i was at checking out the keyboards and showed me a motif. he played a cuple patches on it and it was pretty hot. but then he said but for even cheaper there is something better that isnt even in this room, and said Reason.

so he told me some of tha advantages it has over hardware in general and it got me thinking. is Reason 4 better than Motifs? Fantoms? Roland V Synths?
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In terms of bang for the buck, Reason obliterates all of those, though it won't be able to do some of the things that the V Synth does.

Sycopath7 said:
it just doesnt seem true, keep in mind im looking for sound quality, synths and brass and strings and all that ****... does Reason have better sounds than Hardware? i rilly want to kno before i go an buy a midi controller, a new computer and Reason 4

sorry for the long post, thanks.
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A big part of having a great studio is knowing which tools to buy, and knowing when to use them. Both hardware and software have their strengths. Generally, software sample libraries like the ones I mentioned above will absolutely bury what is available on any workstation as far as acoustic patches go.

Softsynths like those which come with Reason are getting to the point where they are getting better than some of the highend digital hardware synths of the late 90's and early 2000's, and are definitely better than a lot of the entry level stuff that's coming out today like the SH-201 and R3.

If you are seriously considering hardware, you should be looking at products which cannot easily be replicated on a PC. Analog synths like the aforementioned Andromeda come to mind first and foremost. Then there's a whole world of outboard gear out there, once you are feeling comfortable enough to dip your toes into some serious mixing/mastering. Until then, there's a whole slew of RELATIVELY inexpensive, and even free, VST's out there for effects such as compression, distortion, reverb, delay, etc.

What I would recommend for you to do is to try the Reason 4 demo. If you like it, buy it. Then once you get better acquainted with it, you'll be able to figure out how which direction to take your studio in. For instance, if you find yourself feeling satisfied with the built in synth engines, but want higher fidelity acoustic sounds, get one of the sample libraries that I mentioned above. Conversely, If the included acoustic patches suit you just fine, but you want better synths, then start looking at things like the Andromeda, Moog Voyager, etc.
 
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lol thanks array, alot of help in tha piece right thair, but tha problem is that i want good sounds, im dont care about where im working whether its on a pc a workstation or whutever, i care about how good my sounds are. tha point of this post is that tha guy said Reason is better than hardware, but i coodnt figure out if he meant tha sounds are better on reason or if he meant that tha program its self is just better.

becus honestly i hurd that tha Roland V Synth has better sounds than alot of tha otha pieces of hardware out thair, so i was gonna get that
 
Sycopath7 said:
lol thanks array, alot of help in tha piece right thair, but tha problem is that i want good sounds, im dont care about where im working whether its on a pc a workstation or whutever, i care about how good my sounds are. tha point of this post is that tha guy said Reason is better than hardware, but i coodnt figure out if he meant tha sounds are better on reason or if he meant that tha program its self is just better.

becus honestly i hurd that tha Roland V Synth has better sounds than alot of tha otha pieces of hardware out thair, so i was gonna get that
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I wouldn't really say that the V Synth sounds "better" than a lot of the stuff out there. It just does things differently. There's two parts to that product. There's a virtual analog synth engine which is based off of the JP-8000 from the late 90's, and then there's the sampling engine which is derived from the VP-9000 sampler, which came out in 2000. As you can see, it's not exactly cutting edge technology, and the original V-Synth actually suffers from audible aliasing. What it DOES do well is combine those two technologies. What you get as a result is a somewhat lofi sounding synthesizer which is good for experimental sounds, but is bested by lots of other products for general synth sounds.

Do you have any examples of the actual sounds that you want to be able to produce?
 
i still think it's not about hardware- software and what is better. It's how you use it, and how you want to use it. I love hardware, but i don't see anything bad in software. the only difference is price.
 
dotveli said:
i still think it's not about hardware- software and what is better. It's how you use it, and how you want to use it. I love hardware, but i don't see anything bad in software. the only difference is price.
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thats why i dont git whut this guy at tha guitar center was telling me. if Reason (a $350 program) is way better than a $3000 Motif, why wood there be anyone getting a Motif? it just doesnt seem like whut he was telling me was accurate, or maybe it was personal preference.
 
Sycopath7 said:
yeah sum of tha synths id like to produce are ones like these in this beat

View attachment 23960

and tha leada synth of this beat

View attachment 23961

and this is tha type of brass i wish i had, but i cant find anything in software that has sum like this

View attachment 23962
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None of the sounds in those clips are anything extraordinary, and should be reproducible within software synths such as those that come bundled with Reason. Now, whether or not those sounds are available as presets is another matter entirely. You will most likely need to learn how to make your own patches if you want to be able to reproduce exactly what you hear in your head or on someone else's track. Here is a great starting point for learning synthesis:

http://www.soundonsound.com/sos/allsynthsecrets.htm

dotveli said:
i still think it's not about hardware- software and what is better. It's how you use it, and how you want to use it. I love hardware, but i don't see anything bad in software. the only difference is price.
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That's a bit of an generalization. It really comes down to what kind of instruments you are basing your comparisons on. If you are comparing an entry level virtual analog synth to a VST then fine, you can make that comparison because they both, for the most part, offer very crude digital approximations of what is actually happening inside of an analog synthesizer.

It becomes a different matter entirely when you start comparing a ROMpler which is to be used strictly a sound source, like many people do with keyboards such as the Motif, to a comparably priced, dedicated software sample library. Based on the merits of the power available to personal computers, the Motif will get creamed. How much sample memory does a Motif have? 256 Megabytes of compressed storage? You can get a 2 terabyte hard drive for your PC for around $200 now. That's 2 MILLION megabytes. So yes, there is a very big difference between "hardware and software" in that regard.

If you are comparing hard analog synths to digital hardware and software synths, that is a whole other ballpark entirely. Like stated above, most digital "virtual analog" synths offer just a crude approximation of what is actually going on in an analog synth. They don't take into account what happens when temperature compensation is, or is not, present in the tuning circuit of the oscillator, and they most certainly do not take into account inaudible frequencies which will cause audible modulations in the signal path. It'll be a while before we start hearing VST's that can do this:



With all that in mind, there are STILL reasons many reasons why these arguments can go in a different direction. Even though the Vienna Symphonic Cube will give you 100 gigs of multisampled instruments, it's not as reliable as a Motif when it comes to live performances, and certainly doesn't have the same stage presence. There's tons of other examples too, like the digital gear from Elektron. They may appear simple on the outside, but if used properly, they become incredible composition tools. A few minutes of noodling on one of their units can easily create the foundation of an entire track.

I'll stop now because this can go on and on for hundreds of pages, but it sure is fun to think about.

Cheers! :cheers:
 
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Reason is the sh*t. Better than hardware is debateable. I use it along side my hardware and I love it. Reason fills in a lot of holes where my hardware workstations lack soundwise but on the flip side the hardware fills in a lot of gaps where reason is not strong. My opinion is get both hardware and software
 
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wow thanks, u guys are crazy wit info, i apreciate it alot.. i juss dont kno alot about how to design a sound. i just kno tha basic functions and everything. im still learning how to make simple lead synths
 
no software is better than hardware, not now, maybe in the future. the reason he directed you to reason, is because 1. you can afford it, 2. its got better stock sounds than fruity loops and 3. will get you the results you asked him about, having that 'professional' sound.

in my opinion, you should choose reason over hardware because unless you have thousands upon thousands of dollars, its a better option for you to get results you want. all my beats on my myspace page in my signature are made on reason, and those are just my sucky ones i don't even have my latest stuff up.
 
The Reason why the motif is wayyy more expensive than reason is that you have the actual thing right in front of you. Not just some software. I would definately grab reason and a bunch of refills. And maybe even another DAW like reaper or somthing to rewire reason and a some VSTS. Another advantage of using Reason is that it's easier to tweek your sounds. But at the end of the day, It's all about personnal reference.

Peace
 
Tragiik said:
The Reason why the motif is wayyy more expensive than reason is that you have the actual thing right in front of you. Not just some software. I would definately grab reason and a bunch of refills. And maybe even another DAW like reaper or somthing to rewire reason and a some VSTS. Another advantage of using Reason is that it's easier to tweek your sounds. But at the end of the day, It's all about personnal reference.

Peace
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That has very little to do with the cost. I can get hardware for the same price as Reason if I wanted to. The fact is more work went into putting together something like a Motif than Reason. Also because its cheaper to make Reason than it is to make a motif they don't have to charge the same price. They could sell Reason brand new for $150 if they wanted to and could still probably have a profit because it doesn't cost a ton of money to make a software program.
 
I still find it funny to this day that in the origianl reason manual they had a picture of an Alesis SR16, Alesis Andromeda A6 and a Lexicon unit and said "You have all of this right here inside Reason. All the power from a studio costing tens of thousands of dollars is right here...."

followed by the endless negative slags of the Reason Sound and summing issues. The great news for this thread is that Reason has a demo. Download it. use it. Find out for yourself if it's worthy of being your next production tool.
http://www.propellerheads.se/download/

Use it for a while and go back and check out that MOtif and compare the experience. At any rate, I always say when the race is this close, the person usually gets both eventually. Maybe it will be a Motif rack in a month or two.
 
but i have alredy used tha Demo of reason and i dont like it. in my own opinion tha work flow is terrible, its not at all an easy program to understand becus of how everything is organized and tha sounds form tha demo that i heard are just as horrible as tha ones from FL whin i first got it. so i dont kno, i mean i told tha guy at guitar center that i wanted better sounds, not a better program.

so whut shood i do if i want synths horns/strings like tha ones i hear from real songs? should i go with Reason or should i just go with a synthesizer and/or workstation?
 
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