Anyone else considering trading Maschine for Ableton Push?

Don't fall for the marketing hype. Ableton are attempting to fix their reputation after it took a catastrophic hit by years of buggy Live 8 debacle and are now trying to ape NI by announcing a way overpriced controller with the same slim form factor as Maschine that fits in a backpack, a row of encoders and LCD display that shows parameters for the encoders, usb bus power, RGB led backlit velocity sensitive pads, dedicated buttons, lack of faders...etc. that won't even be released until next year.

It would be silly to trade Maschine for Push. Live+Push is no match for Maschine when it comes to chopping samples with a mouseless hands-on workflow, which is why so many Live users now use Maschine. Push doesn't even compare to Maschine in that department at all with no slicing on hardware, no waveform on LCD, and so far there's been no mention of the encoders automatically mapping to start/end points of samples or being able to do things like quickly duplicating pads from the hardware.

While the design of the Push controller is obviously Maschine-inspired and an indication that Ableton and Akai are attempting to get a slice of the pie from Maschine's success story, it's not going to be that much of a competition to Maschine:

- Push doesn't automap to plugin parameters: "With VSTs, we currently can't access parameters in an automatic and consistent way, as we can with our own devices, so you would be left with a way to load a VST, but not control it automatically. https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1445043#p1445043

- it can't do step automation (step parameter lock): "We don't have per step automation of devices (also known as parameter lock)" https://forum.ableton.com/viewtopic.php?p=1445659#p1445659

- no waveforms on the hardware LCD when sample editing and will still force you to look back and forth at the computer screen for a lot of things

- still requires you to use the mouse/trackpad for a lot of things like opening/closing plugin windows, even with cramming in a bunch of dedicated buttons

- the pads are too small for those who like to use more than one finger at a time on a pad

- has an unfortunate design flaw of the knobs being positioned above the LCD screen

- no Komplete preset integration on the hardware, obviously

- way overpriced in comparison to Maschine (Push is $948 with standard version of Live, $1198 with Live Suite)

What Push does provide is a potentially useful case study for what could happen if NI suddenly decided to bloat Maschine with all kinds of features from full-on DAWs so that you lose the mouseless capability of Maschine's fully hands-on workflow.
 
I don't think the two compare (although I'm wondering what's the deal with "way too overpriced" - Push & Maschine have the exact same street price of $599) - Push is a straight-up control surface for Live; Maschine is a somewhat sample-oriented software drum machine with a nice controller. That they share a similar form factor is more like the sign of the times & how design trends evolve; look at how most smartphones and tablets look these days, for example (in the sense that they're all more or less the same). Comparing Push to the APC40 would make more sense...
 
krushing said:
I don't think the two compare (although I'm wondering what's the deal with "way too overpriced" - Push & Maschine have the exact same street price of $599)
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The price of Maschine includes the software license. Push controller itself only comes with Live Intro. Push costs $948 with the full version of Live 9, and $1198 with Live 9 Suite.

krushing said:
That they share a similar form factor is more like the sign of the times & how design trends evolve; look at how most smartphones and tablets look these days, for example (in the sense that they're all more or less the same).
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Just as in your smartphone/tablet analogy where Apple innovated and the rest followed, NI innovated in the integrated software/hardware concept and the rest are following.
 
noborders said:
The price of Maschine includes the software license. Push controller itself only comes with Live Intro. Push costs $948 with the full version of Live 9, and $1198 with Live 9 Suite.
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Fair enough, but there's a big difference in the sense that Maschine is the software; Push is an optional extra for Live. The former is a self-contained system, the latter a dedicated controller. I'm just thinking that these comparison arise mostly from the fact that the controllers look alike; if Push was a shiny red sphere (yet did the exact same thing as it does now), I doubt people would compare it to the Maschine quite as easily.

Just as in your smartphone/tablet analogy where Apple innovated and the rest followed, NI innovated in the integrated software/hardware concept and the rest are following.
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Can't argue with this. Doesn't make it any worse, though.
 
Just as in your smartphone/tablet analogy where Apple innovated and the rest followed, NI innovated in the integrated software/hardware concept and the rest are following.
Click to expand...

But, using a similar analogy, Nintendo paved the way with "motion sensor gaming" (Wii) and while it was the first console to do so, Microsoft and Sony perfected it by following suite (Kinect and Move) and learning from Nintendo's mistakes. Just because Ableton is "following" with the Push doesn't mean it'll be sub-par in comparison to NI's Maschine.

Something to also keep in mind is that because it has a while before it's released, there's still time for Ableton to return to the drawing board to modify it... Or I at least hope so!
 
They're different.

One is the software in a physical form which doesn't require looking at the screen.

One is a controller for your software which requires looking at the screen.

Big difference IMO.
 
I am considering trading in my maschine for push as I hate constructing songs on maschine.
I might keep maschine and use both..

Just got an email from ableton that it will be available march 5th.
 
dietmertan.com said:
I am considering trading in my maschine for push as I hate constructing songs on maschine.
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That probably isn't the smartest thing to do.

Here are just some of the examples of the many things that Maschine does that Live & Push simply cannot do:

- step sequence regular midi tracks from the hardware
- slice samples from the hardware
- sample editing with just the hardware due to the waveforms showing up on the hardware's LCD displays
- add/remove slices from the hardware
- browse and load audio/clips from the hardware
- duplicate pads (equivalent to Drum Racks pads in Live) from the hardware
- edit start/end points for unwarped audio clips from the hardware
- make multiple selection of notes from the hardware
- automap to plugins without having to save them in a different format (Live racks) first
- step automation (aka step parameter locks/p-locks)
- open/close plugins from the hardware
- open a set or even start a new set from the hardware
- copy/paste clips from the hardware
- preview/pre-hear samples in browser from the hardware
- the ability to be mouseless (and even computer screen-less) for pretty much every control of its software
- make custom names to show up in the hardware's displays when used as a midi controller
- everything in Komplete 8, including all presets, automatically shows up in Maschine's hardware to be browsed and loaded
...etc.
 
OK thanks for the info! Makes me think again.

I also said I might keep maschine and use both, so think that's my best option.
I love making beats and loops on my maschine, but was just so used to ableton where I can drag/split/stretch pieces around in a song.
This is a nightmare in maschine so maybe I should just stop using maschine standalone and use it as a plugin in Ableton.
 
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I tried ableton and maschine but I didn't get maschine to resond to te play and record buttons when loaded as a VST.
I'll investigatge this and try some other settings and midi routing later.
 
See, I already use Maschine as a VST within Live. The main thing I use it for is just playing out my drums and occasionally chopping samples (although sometimes, I do that in Ableton itself). So I feel like Push would let me do that drum sequencing and sample sequencing just fine, plus give me the option to play instruments and build a Live set as I go along with everything.
 
i find it cool to have a controller like machine doing specific stuff for certain plugins and the push or other controller doing all the main ableton control surface stuff it does best. Ive been using push for about 2 weeks now and I can say it is a very cool controller and they are going to sell a few.
 
I've created a max patch enabling note style parameter locks for push with polyphony. No step automation yet though. Google AudioModder Push Sequencer. I'm not allowed to post links because this is my first post!.

---------- Post added at 09:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:06 PM ----------

I've created a max patch enabling note style parameter locks for push with polyphony. No step automation yet though. Google AudioModder Push Sequencer. I'm not allowed to post links because this is my first post!
 
I produce all in ableton, so I've heard some say that I should get a push as I've never used either. But I agree - I just feel like the maschine is a better fit for my style and what I want to do. Thoughts?
 
It seems odd to me that cats are using a controller from one company with software from another.
Like using abelton with the maschine and push with maschine software.I don't get it.
If you use abelton(which sucks)why not use the push?That is what it's designed for right?
Like if Akai ever opens up Renaissance software i could understand cats using any model of MPC
with it but using maschine/push with it just wouldn't make sense.

Peace
 
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