Mpc Magic Swing Vs Shift Timing And 960 Ppq

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ecsmix

New member
the magic swing feel of the mpc came from older versions 60/3000 with 96 ppq, so it isnt the ppq who makes the magic,right?
is the swing only? not the shift timing feature...960 spaces to move a note is better than 96 for sure 1 or 2 in shift changes the whole feel of the beat.
So what really makes the mpc swing feature so nice if the swing affects only the notes in between 1/16 then you have to shift the notes but 96 is too drastic and 960 is new, introduced with the 4k.
Explain the mystery please.
 
If u ask me there is no "magic swing" on the MPC I actually liked the swing on my old SP-505 better! the PPQN doesnt really matter when it comes down to that. When you quantize you are essentially lowering your PPQN. So, if you quantize 16th notes you are basically lowering your PPQN to 16. All swing does is move the notes slightly outside of that to make them sound more natural.
 
From what I understand about the mpc quantizing is that a template was created based on a live drummer playing basic patterns. Then the timing of those live patterns were converted to midi data. So when you quantize, instead of it moving each note to a rigid note placement (ie) 16th notes or whatever, it moves notes to the placements that the live drummer played at. In other words, the notes won't all hit at exact distances because a live drummer couldn't play that rigidly if he tried. So its basically like a midi template of a live drummer to which the notes you play are alligned to. Roger Linn supposedly used the band Toto's drummer for the drum samples in the original Linn drum machine. So, maybe they had that drummer play out some patterns and then used them as a template. (I don't know for certain, but it makes sense) As for the ppqn, I think some people that claim the mpc has "rock solid" timing really don't know what their talking about. What their referring to is that the low ppqn is not allowing their mistakes to come through like a higher resolution sequencer would. So, when they play on a high resolution sequencer and they sound sloppy they blame it on the timing of the "sequencer" when its actually "their own" timing that is bad. Its just not magnified by the 96 ppqn because notes they play out of time are shifted over, even with quantize off.
 
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k81 said:
From what I understand about the mpc quantizing is that a template was created based on a live drummer playing basic patterns. Then the timing of those live patterns were converted to midi data. So when you quantize, instead of it moving each note to a rigid note placement (ie) 16th notes or whatever, it moves notes to the placements that the live drummer played at. In other words, the notes won't all hit at exact distances because a live drummer couldn't play that rigidly if he tried. So its basically like a midi template of a live drummer to which the notes you play are alligned to. Roger Linn supposedly used the band Toto's drummer for the drum samples in the original Linn drum machine. So, maybe they had that drummer play out some patterns and then used them as a template. (I don't know for certain, but it makes sense) As for the ppqn, I think some people that claim the mpc has "rock solid" timing really don't know what their talking about. What their referring to is that the low ppqn is not allowing their mistakes to come through like a higher resolution sequencer would. So, when they play on a high resolution sequencer and they sound sloppy they blame it on the timing of the "sequencer" when its actually "their own" timing that is bad. Its just not magnified by the 96 ppqn because notes they play out of time are shifted over, even with quantize off.
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Ha I've honestly never heard that one before.
People always point out the low 96ppqn resolution, well the sp1200, and sampletrak both have 24ppqn.
Hey the Sampletrak even drifts when midi synced, so whats the big deal about an mpc with some slight timing errors.

If someone wanted an imperfect but funky swing they would just buy a $100 Sampletrak, and be done with it.
I remember comparing swing in the mpc2000, and the Zoom.
The mpc at 60%, and an amount of 1, sounded very close to the Zoom at 61%.
 
AKAI has brainwashed you all to think rediculous thoughts.

Really think what you're saying.

"The Randomization function on the MPC sounds better than randomization on anything else?"

When you really look at it, is this really even an arguement? When have you ever heard swing in a track and said "that can't be MPC, it's not swingy enough" or "that's gotta be MPC, hear the swing?"

lol. I'm an MPC owner, and I honestly couldn't tell you the difference. Quit falling for marketing ploys!!!! Aren't you FPers supposed to be smart enough not to buy in to commercialism? Or does that only count when we're talking about popular music?
 
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I read on gearslutz and a few other places where more technically inclined discussed this issue...it boiled down to the fact the MPC is actually, more "sloppy" which is what gives the feel of more "swing"...or better timing than more rigid seq.

This goes in line with what another poster said about the live drummer templates...I can't verify that, but it does seem to hold weight...

It is a fact that most can bang out/quan. a track quicker and wiith a better feel on the MPC than other seq...That's why it is sooo popular...not that the same results can't be achieved with another seq.

Even someone with little understanding of quan. has a better chance getting it right on an MPC, call it what you want...Just seen it toooo many times in the studio
 
zionproductions said:
I read on gearslutz and a few other places where more technically inclined discussed this issue...it boiled down to the fact the MPC is actually, more "sloppy" which is what gives the feel of more "swing"...or better timing than more rigid seq.

This goes in line with what another poster said about the live drummer templates...I can't verify that, but it does seem to hold weight...

It is a fact that most can bang out/quan. a track quicker and wiith a better feel on the MPC than other seq...That's why it is sooo popular...not that the same results can't be achieved with another seq.

Even someone with little understanding of quan. has a better chance getting it right on an MPC, call it what you want...Just seen it toooo many times in the studio
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You never heard of "auto Quantize?" Everything made since 2000 should have it. I'm shocked at how brainwashed you guys allow yourselves to be. You realize samples you load have ms of silence before they start? Once pitched down or up timing is thrown off more? Some works need more swing while others need less? There's so many factors to "swing" there's no such thing as "better". And again, quit allowing these people to tell you nonsense.

I've yet to hear a single track that was hot due to MPC swing being used. You telling me all the producers who don't exclusively use MPC(Including Timbo who arguably has some of the best drum programming)are subject to disadvantage when put beside some random guy with "swing" turned up on his MPC?

I'll let you guys keep dreaming. Either you guys are that lacking in rythm or that naive that you rely on "swing" to make your music hot.
 
k81 said:
As for the ppqn, I think some people that claim the mpc has "rock solid" timing really don't know what their talking about. What their referring to is that the low ppqn is not allowing their mistakes to come through like a higher resolution sequencer would. So, when they play on a high resolution sequencer and they sound sloppy they blame it on the timing of the "sequencer" when its actually "their own" timing that is bad.
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I'm so glad folks actually get this.

I also think it's interesting that the most of the same MPC crowd don't do anything musically that requires anything above 96PPQN and complain about timing and resloution. Unfortunately the current MPC culture is more about being part of an elite club tied to a rich history that current (Numark made) MPCs had nothing to do with.
 
my theory is this. the mpc doesn't have any 'magic' swing and it doesnt intentionally or accidentally throw off midi events to sound like a real drummer. thats just plain bs. from my experience coming from using a 2000 and then switching to a 1000 with the jjos. i noticed that when i was sampling my drum sounds into the mpc it self and then manually trimming them on the mpc i would get a much looser feel on the drums as opposed to importing them off a cf car where the drums were trimmed perfect with a wav editor making the drums hit perfect and very stiff. i dunno if this has been anyone elses experience or just mine im just adding my 2 cents.
 
k81 said:
From what I understand about the mpc quantizing is that a template was created based on a live drummer playing basic patterns. Then the timing of those live patterns were converted to midi data. So when you quantize, instead of it moving each note to a rigid note placement (ie) 16th notes or whatever, it moves notes to the placements that the live drummer played at. In other words, the notes won't all hit at exact distances because a live drummer couldn't play that rigidly if he tried. So its basically like a midi template of a live drummer to which the notes you play are alligned to. Roger Linn supposedly used the band Toto's drummer for the drum samples in the original Linn drum machine. So, maybe they had that drummer play out some patterns and then used them as a template. (I don't know for certain, but it makes sense) As for the ppqn, I think some people that claim the mpc has "rock solid" timing really don't know what their talking about. What their referring to is that the low ppqn is not allowing their mistakes to come through like a higher resolution sequencer would. So, when they play on a high resolution sequencer and they sound sloppy they blame it on the timing of the "sequencer" when its actually "their own" timing that is bad. Its just not magnified by the 96 ppqn because notes they play out of time are shifted over, even with quantize off.
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do you have a source for this?
 
I heard that MPC's have little prisoners inside, ya know little people. With little drum kits that trigger the samples with. And when your MPC breaks, its not broken, they are dead and when you get it repaired they put new ones in. RIP little MPC people, your swing was much appreciated.
 
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It makes no sense...Pure comedy, hahaha.

"Here's some Toto samples in this thing!...It proably grooves like toto's drummer!" .....See...Makes no sense at all does it.

Maybe if you import some funky drummer samples into the mpc, it will groove like Clyde Stubblefield?.(Sarcasm ofcourse).
 
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