so... ya think the Beat Thang is still a toy?

[slik da relic]

That's not saying much.

ur right... it aint sayin much, but the Beat Thang aint out yet... so that means the songs that are bein produced are using the hardware that u consider toys, as well as the software u are currently usin... so i guess u have (software) toys as well.

da relic

 

[Salem Beats]

No I'm not a developer or a "paid endorser" I cover and review gear for many different companies. That's what I do...do your research before spewing out garbage about me...we can talk about gear all day long, but questioning my integrity based on what you "think" you know is taking it to another level.

I guess I'm a paid endorser or developer for Native Instruments, FXpansion, IK Multimedia, Big Fish, Presonus, East West and any other company who's products I cover huh?

Get back to talkin about the gear please, thank you.

Yes, I believe that you have a vested interest in the success of this product. Whether you have a vested interest in the other products is irrelevant. I'm suspicious of the motivation behind your attitudes. What that vested interest is -- I'm not sure.

Anyway, the marketing for this product is similar to the marketing for those spam "cheap Viagra" ads you get in your inbox or those "special report" eBooks that promise to make you an expert in a given topic overnight. The marketing itself promises me that I will be let down by the product, especially at its price point.

 

[Salem Beats]

i guess u have (software) toys as well.

I suppose so -- more cost-effective ones.

 

[slik da relic]

good... as long as we understand each other... besides, u paid for the computer or laptop it runs on.

carry on.

da relic

 

[saintjoe]

Yes, I believe that you have a vested interest in the success of this product. Whether you have a vested interest in the other products is irrelevant. I'm suspicious of the motivation behind your attitudes. What that vested interest is -- I'm not sure.

Anyway, the marketing for this product is similar to the marketing for those spam "cheap Viagra" ads you get in your inbox or those "special report" eBooks that promise to make you an expert in a given topic overnight. The marketing itself promises me that I will be let down by the product, especially at its price point.

No it's not irrelevant, it shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Your logic would have to apply to any and every product I review or talk about.

I've been following them and their product way before they put up that "viagra" sales page (which I think is corny as well), get your facts right.

Like I said...talk about the gear, you look more intelligent doing so.

 

[Salem Beats]

No it's not irrelevant, it shows you have no idea what you are talking about. Your logic would have to apply to any and every product I review or talk about.

I've been following them and their product way before they put up that "viagra" sales page (which I think is corny as well), get your facts right.

Like I said...talk about the gear, you look more intelligent doing so.

List of evidence (circumstantial and otherwise) that you are either involved somehow in the development process or being paid to prop the product up:

1: Your fansite (What neutral reviewer puts up a fansite for a specific product? Are you kidding me?) headlines with "following the movement and exploring the gear". There is no movement because there is no gear -- it's a subtle shill statement, and this is the first thing that caused me to be suspicious. This isn't really evidence -- it just seemed suspicious and made me want to investigate.

2: You defend the Beat Thang's most ridiculous inconsistencies and flaws with a passion, as well as the developers of the machine themselves. This is uncharacteristic of a neutral reviewer -- even of someone who likes the product.

3: Your page has a large ad on every page that links to http://beatthang.com. This would be fine, except for the fact that you have what seems to be an affiliate ID behind your URL link -- an extra set of numbers and dashes that doesn't do anything except record that you referred the potential customer to the page. For those of you who don't know, an affiliate link means that if someone buys the product that he has linked to, he gets a cut of the profit. This is damning proof that you are at least profiting somehow by creating a positive spin on the Beat Thang and the Beat Kangz as a group. As of this writing, your affiliate ID is 101-4-1-27.

4: The fact that you are able to answer questions quickly about the Beat Thang and know new features as a "steady stream of info" before the information is made public suggests that you are working closely and personally with Beat Kangz rather than simply receiving press kits and prototype devices from time to time. This supports the notion that you are either a developer or a shill.

#3 is what I was looking for (and knew I would find), and it's conclusive enough that no other evidence is necessary.
Keep pushing it and I will dig up more serious and obvious evidence. Don't attempt to insult my intelligence by asserting your innocence. You're an intelligent person for coming up with such an elaborate plan and covering your tracks so well, congrats.

Finally, on topic, the Beat Thang is a piece of sh!t toy whose developers are using every marketing tactic they can think of (hyped-up "viral" YouTube videos, shill [affiliate] marketing, posting all over music production forums) to convince people to buy this thing. In the spirit of helping people produce music, it's my duty to inform people that this thing is a waste of $1000. Go get a new $500 notebook, a $250 copy of REAPER, a $100 MIDI controller, and IK's Sampletank -- That's a much better use of your $1000.

 

[TheCreator]

@ salem beats , dude for someone who does this in their "loner-time or when ur not producing uve got a lot of time ur not doing anything lol. Just let the toy come out, try it and if u dont like it voila not the end of the world u just wont like it. Also the linndrum 2 was going to be called the boomchick in the beginning so y exactly does this make a product a toy? the linndrum 2 is also going to have lights on the pads and still is far from a toy, get ur stuff straight and quit hating on things until they actually come out.

 

[Salem Beats]

the linndrum 2 is also going to have lights on the pads and still is far from a toy, get ur stuff straight and quit hating on things until they actually come out.

Do you even read the posts? I never said anything bad about the lights.

Go read the other posts and understand what you're replying to before you take a position.

 

[saintjoe]

List of evidence (circumstantial and otherwise) that you are either involved somehow in the development process or being paid to prop the product up:

1: Your fansite (What neutral reviewer puts up a fansite for a specific product? Are you kidding me?) headlines with "following the movement and exploring the gear". There is no movement because there is no gear -- it's a subtle shill statement, and this is the first thing that caused me to be suspicious. This isn't really evidence -- it just seemed suspicious and made me want to investigate.

Again...you prove nothing, as I'm not trying to hide anything. I have a fan site for Maschine as well lol. I started the beat thang site back in the summer, when I first got the software, I was assuming there would be faster development and more news, and wanted a place to post the (supposed) frequent info on this product.

2: You defend the Beat Thang's most ridiculous inconsistencies and flaws with a passion, as well as the developers of the machine themselves. This is uncharacteristic of a neutral reviewer -- even of someone who likes the product.

What "inconsistencies" have you seen me defend? If there is issues I've stated them myself, I have a huge log of issues that I've submitted to them personally, directly on their own forums. Nor do I defend the developers and their marketing, I've let it be known their initial marketing style was not my cup of tea lol...you must have me confused.
I've been one of the most neutral when it comes to this product lol.

Your page has a large ad on every page that links to http://beatthang.com. This would be fine, except for the fact that you have what seems to be an affiliate ID behind your URL link -- an extra set of numbers and dashes that doesn't do anything except record that you referred the potential customer to the page. For those of you who don't know, an affiliate link means that if someone buys the product that he has linked to, he gets a cut of the profit. This is damning proof that you are at least profiting somehow by creating a positive spin on the Beat Thang and the Beat Kangz as a group. As of this writing, your affiliate ID is 101-4-1-27.

Are you serious? lol...You are much less intelligent than I gave you credit for, affiliate ads are nothing but a means of supporting a website. I have affiliate banners from eBay, musiciansfriend, american musical, amazon..the list goes on, so am I biased for them too? Am I an eBay developer? Like I said, speak on what you know, obviously that isn't business and running a website. I had that beat thang site way before they had any affiliate program at all. Stick to the gear please like I suggested before.

4: The fact that you are able to answer questions quickly about the Beat Thang and know new features as a "steady stream of info" before the information is made public suggests that you are working closely and personally with Beat Kangz rather than simply receiving press kits and prototype devices from time to time. This supports the notion that you are either a developer or a shill.

Have you ever heard of press getting info before general public? Do you know what the term "beta tester" means? Again, you prove your lack of understanding. I have "early info" on tons of products and software, without being a developer or working for the companies, that's what I do, I try to get as much info, as early as possible on as much gear as I can. I know how to actually contact companies, and speak intelligently enough to get information on the products I am interested in. I also have companies that openly contact me with...you guessed it, info not available to the general public.

This all comes with the territory of running a website focused on gear and software.

#3 is what I was looking for (and knew I would find), and it's conclusive enough that no other evidence is necessary.
Keep pushing it and I will dig up more serious and obvious evidence. Don't attempt to insult my intelligence by asserting your innocence. You're an intelligent person for coming up with such an elaborate plan and covering your tracks so well, congrats.

Hahaha, you didn't have to look hard now did you? Know why? Cuz there is nothing to hide. What is there to "dig up" ? lol, do you really think you are proving anything other than the fact that you have no understanding of business, marketing, and website advertising?

I think not.

Like I said, stick to talking about gear, because when it comes to business and running websites you're obviously way out of your league and it shows in your post.

 

[Salem Beats]

Again...you prove nothing, as I'm not trying to hide anything. I have a fan site for Maschine as well lol. I started the beat thang site back in the summer, when I first got the software, I was assuming there would be faster development and more news, and wanted a place to post the (supposed) frequent info on this product.



What "inconsistencies" have you seen me defend? If there is issues I've stated them myself, I have a huge log of issues that I've submitted to them personally, directly on their own forums. Nor do I defend the developers and their marketing, I've let it be known their initial marketing style was not my cup of tea lol...you must have me confused.
I've been one of the most neutral when it comes to this product lol.



Are you serious? lol...You are much less intelligent than I gave you credit for, affiliate ads are nothing but a means of supporting a website. I have affiliate banners from eBay, musiciansfriend, american musical, amazon..the list goes on, so am I biased for them too? Am I an eBay developer? Like I said, speak on what you know, obviously that isn't business and running a website. I had that beat thang site way before they had any affiliate program at all. Stick to the gear please like I suggested before.




Have you ever heard of press getting info before general public? Do you know what the term "beta tester" means? Again, you prove your lack of understanding. I have "early info" on tons of products and software, without being a developer or working for the companies, that's what I do, I try to get as much info, as early as possible on as much gear as I can. I know how to actually contact companies, and speak intelligently enough to get information on the products I am interested in. I also have companies that openly contact me with...you guessed it, info not available to the general public.

This all comes with the territory of running a website focused on gear and software.




Hahaha, you didn't have to look hard now did you? Know why? Cuz there is nothing to hide. What is there to "dig up" ? lol, do you really think you are proving anything other than the fact that you have no understanding of business, marketing, and website advertising?

I think not.

Like I said, stick to talking about gear, because when it comes to business and running websites you're obviously way out of your league and it shows in your post.

The fact that you admit to #3 is enough to prove my point -- you admit to benefiting financially from the Beat Thang having a good reputation, therefore, your view is biased.

The fact that you talk about "business and running websites" proves that you consider the Beat Thang website as a potential stream of income on-the-side -- if you truly "loved the company and product" like you said in one of your videos, you wouldn't mind paying a small amount of cash out of your pocket to spread the word.
It costs me only $50/yr. ($4.16/mo.) for a top-level domain name and unlimited-bandwidth hosting, so don't get started about how "insanely expensive" that is. Even Soundclick costs more than that.

The fact that you did the same thing for Maschine doesn't make a difference. So you potentially profited from another device as well -- that won't distract from what you're doing with the Beat Thang.

Regardless of your purposes and viewpoints when you initially created your site, the fact that you get paid when someone buys Beat Thang (and your admitting to this point) is enough to prove your bias. It makes no difference whether the money is going to cover server costs, because the incentive is the same -- you're still out approx. $50 (or however much you spent for hosting) if people think the Beat Thang is a piece of sh!t.

I don't have enough info to prove that you're a developer (or paid beta tester, or both), but I definitely have reason enough to be suspicious.

I was a communications (marketing) major and business management minor in college while I was doing music (in addition to mounds of "real-world" experience), so I'm certain that I'm not "out of my league" when it comes to businesses and running websites.

You've already lost the argument by admitting your bias, and from here on it's just a matter of strength-of-victory.

 

[saintjoe]

The fact that you admit to #3 is enough to prove my point -- you admit to benefiting financially from the Beat Thang having a good reputation, therefore, your view is biased.

The fact that you talk about "business and running websites" proves that you consider the Beat Thang website as a potential stream of income on-the-side -- if you truly "loved the company and product" like you said in one of your videos, you wouldn't mind paying a small amount of cash out of your pocket to spread the word.
It costs me only $50/yr. ($4.16/mo.) for a top-level domain name and unlimited-bandwidth hosting, so don't get started about how "insanely expensive" that is. Even Soundclick costs more than that.

The fact that you did the same thing for Maschine doesn't make a difference. So you potentially profited from another device as well -- that won't distract from what you're doing with the Beat Thang.

Regardless of your purposes and viewpoints when you initially created your site, the fact that you get paid when someone buys Beat Thang (and your admitting to this point) is enough to prove your bias. It makes no difference whether the money is going to cover server costs, because the incentive is the same -- you're still out approx. $50 (or however much you spent for hosting) if people think the Beat Thang is a piece of sh!t.

I don't have enough info to prove that you're a developer (or paid beta tester, or both), but I definitely have reason enough to be suspicious.

I was a communications (marketing) major and business management minor in college while I was doing music (in addition to mounds of "real-world" experience), so I'm certain that I'm not "out of my league" when it comes to businesses and running websites.

You've already lost the argument, and from here on it's just a matter of strength-of-victory.

If you're a "marketing minor" then you would know it's nothing but an alternative to companies paying for adspace, just like magazines or any other type of advertisement.

That fact doesn't cloud my judgement or reporting on the product, I've been very vocal about it's shortcomings, but all I have to go on is the software.

I've stated many times that I prefer other software that allows me to do more than what this can. And I've openly advised folks not to look at it to replace Reason, FL Studio, or anything that they may be currently using.

So again, say what you want, but you've proved nothing. I'm not a paid beta tester or developer, nor do I work for them.

I started that website way before they even offered advertising or anything, funny how companies take notice when you do something constructive huh?

I started the Maschine site the same way, and don't get anything from the company for it, doesn't change my opinion on Maschine one bit.

If people like it they like it, if they don't they don't. All I'm doing is putting the info out. The only reason I started the beat thang fan site in the first place is because I thought development would be a lot faster and further along and I'd have more to post on it. It's been slow, and I don't as much info to post as I thought...so it is what it is, a lesson learned.

I never said a domain/hosting was "insanely expensive" lol, I said the banners and affiliate programs are a form of support for the site, which includes the time I put in to them.

So what If I run my sites as a side business? Does that invalidate the information being provided? I think not. I'd love to one day be able to do nothing but review and test products all day, and be supported by advertisers, similar to an online magazine. Not unlike this very site we are on now.

However I pull no punches and no one gets a "free pass" because they support the site through advertising or banners, if something is wack it's wack, and if it has issues it will be told.

As it stands now, these sites are just that, something on the side that I love to do. If there are companies who value the platform enough to pay for advertising then it's all good. Some do, some don't, I'll keep it going regardless because I enjoy this stuff.

So...all your babble means nothing and you've still proved nothing.

Everything I do or have done on my sites is out in the open for all to see. Including you, you didn't "uncover" anything lol.

Really, you should get back to talkin about the gear man, you're really making yourself look desperate.

 

[Salem Beats]

As a side note, most of the supporters for this company online (if you look up "Beat Thang Review" on google) are affiliate marketers.

Because of the company's heavy reliance on sneaky marketing tactics, it's safe to say that any positive reviews for Beat Kangz products should be taken with a grain of salt and viewed with suspicion.

If you don't believe me, Google it yourself and look for affiliate links in the reviews. They're all over the place.

the banners and affiliate programs are a form of support for the site, which includes the time I put in to them.

In the business world, trading your time for money is well-known as the usual way of making a profit.

 

[TheCreator]

I'll admit I'm at fault for the lights but u still ignore the fact that it was going to have a boom in the name as well, anyways the real point is y r u talking so much trash on something uve never tried and talking like u kno something to somebody who's actually touched it. All ur doing really is hating on it for it's name and it's pathetic go talk ur trash on some other forum.

 

[saintjoe]

As a side note, most of the supporters for this company online (if you look up "Beat Thang Review" on google) are affiliate marketers.

Because of the company's heavy reliance on sneaky marketing tactics, it's safe to say that any positive reviews for Beat Kangz products should be taken with a grain of salt and viewed with suspicion.

If you don't believe me, Google it yourself and look for affiliate links in the reviews. They're all over the place.

I will admit once they opened that "sales page" site in addition to their regular site, more people came along just to join their new affiliate program. Many may not even have the product and just promote it...that's something else I don't agree with and also talked to them about how some of their "supporters" are operating around the net. But that's up to them to wrangle them in.

If I found out the company itself was engaging in fraud then i'd definitely be reporting about it, I've done so in the past with companies that I previously supported but had to retract my support because they were found to be shady.

All I'm saying is that I was covering this product with videos and articles way before they even had any monetary system in place.

Contrary to many "supporters" I've shown the product in use, reported when they updated specific bugs I've reported on (one being an update which fixed the inability for windows users to delete individual notes in a sequence), and covered general info about the product or products before there was ever any affiliate system involved.

Having the ability to add an affiliate or paid banner to a website that is getting decent traffic is the natural progression of a growing website. Nothing sneaky about that, just normal website operation.

In the business world, trading your time for money is well-known as the usual way of making a profit.

Not sure what you're point is here, but yes, time for money is what's known as a job, for profit. I don't get paid for the majority of the time I put into my websites so if a company wants to buy ads or pay for traffic generated through banners on my sites, it's cool wit me as long as the product is music related and I've had a chance to use it personally.

 

[Salem Beats]

I will admit once they opened that "sales page" site in addition to their regular site, more people came along just to join their new affiliate program. Many may not even have the product and just promote it...

So then, you understand why I have to be suspicious of your motivations.

Not sure what you're point is here, but yes, time for money is what's known as a job, for profit.

My point is that you're profiting from each individual's interests in the Beat Thang.

 

[saintjoe]

So then, you understand why I have to be suspicious of your motivations.

I guess I can understand it then, just figured my track record was evidence enough I wasn't some fly by night promote whatever type of dude.

But I do agree your concerns as a whole are valid with how they went about a lot of their marketing, again, I've had the same concerns myself and have voiced them directly to the company.

Hopefully you'll eventually see that's now how I do things, but you're definitely entitled to your opinion. I'm just saying I don't have anything to hide nor am I working for the company.

The hardware is what I've been waiting for and the main thing, to me, is it's portable in one unit. My laptop and a midi controller is pretty cramped on a plane.

If the hardware doesn't deliver, the shortcomings will be posted.

My point is that you're profiting from each individual's interests in the Beat Thang.

This very site is profiting off of google ads, which profit off of individuals interest in products based on the content of what we write about and discuss on this site.

Does that make the site owner any less trustworthy? Is is it just a means of compensation for the work he does with the site?

You do know google ads are an affiliate program too right?

 

[slik da relic]

what's funny to me is the fact that the current video CLEARLY shows that they ARE tryin to make a great piece of hardware, and theyre stating that they want it as perfect as they can get it... yet, its still aint good enuff for some... i remember a few weeks back reading a thread that spoke about "if there wasnt software programs, would u still do music?" (not the exact title, but close) most of the forum said no... i guess thats where we're headed... a bunch of cpu geeks that sit in front of a screen, "placing" where they want the snare drum from a Virtual Fantom X keyboard to go.

 

[Salem Beats]

I guess I can understand it then, just figured my track record was evidence enough I wasn't some fly by night promote whatever type of dude.

I don't know of any track record.

This very site is profiting off of google ads, which profit off of individuals interest in products based on the content of what we write about and discuss on this site.

You do know google ads are an affiliate program too right?

The site might be profiting from these ads.

With Google Ads, you don't get to pick a specific product to endorse -- the results are vaguely on-topic based on page contents and seemingly 1 million other factors.

Right now, the Google ads I'm looking at on this page are: Folgers Jingle Contest, Music Production School, Short Films by Honda, and Chantecaille skin care.

Suffice to say, two of these aren't even on-topic, and two of them I'm not interested in. Even if a relevant Google Ad were to come up, the script generating the ads couldn't tell whether people were talking badly about it or not.

Examples of poorly-generated scripted ads:

Endorsing a particular product explicitly rather than running scripted ads paves the way for bias via potential to profit.

 

[saintjoe]

track record being looking back at everything I've covered previously, and the fact I was covering my experience with this product/company before they even introduced their affiliate system. Even after they did, it didn't change my coverage, to me it's nothin more than banners on a site, which of course, people don't have to click.

Irrelevant ads or not, I brought up google ads just to show the point of advertising on a site, I'm sure there are other ads on this site that aren't google generated, just like other major sites have banner space available for direct purchase. It's normal operation for a website.

carry on

 

[Salem Beats]

i guess thats where we're headed... a bunch of cpu geeks that sit in front of a screen, "placing" where they want the snare drum from a Virtual Fantom X keyboard to go.

You seem to be insinuating that this is somehow a bad direction for music to take.

You shouldn't ignore the frequently-posted videos of people "placing" repetitive snares on the "2" beat using MPC quantize to correct the timing.

The truth is that the MPC and all other sequencer hardware (909, 808, their predecessors, all keyboard workstations) were a step in this direction.

In an age where most adults are assumed to own a computer (and most teens/children are assumed to at least have access to one), computer software is simply the new phase in production.

Old habits die hard, but at least we're not using rotary-dial phones anymore.

A computer sequencer allows you to use quality MIDI controllers in the same workflow as hardware, but with the added power of more/higher-quality sounds/synths and the ability to fix the timing of individual notes on-the-fly to salvage what would otherwise be an excellent take.