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146 posts, Vic J ( BASSTRANAUTS )
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I was thinking of getting numark tt 200, tt 500 or maybe a gemini pt1000 since i cant really afford the technics 1200s... I also chose those because they are direct drive, high torque and that is what i undertand to be the most common standard of quality and performance for that price range. Would the numark or gemini be good enough to sample vinyl into my Korg Triton sampler and go from there. Also would a usb tt like the numark ttx get the job done correctly? Would you reccomend any other good turntables at an afforable price that i can use for sampling? I also understand that the cartridge and needle is important. Is the Stanton TII-SK cartridge a good one? Which ones would be the best at a cheap price that you know of?
Ok and one last thing that i just still dont understand and may sound stupid, but why should i sample using vinyl and a good turntable when i can sample songs out of my pc with mp3's or WAV files by just downloading rare songs only found on vinyl, playing a cd, or just looking them up on the internet since everything is there now? Is it the sound quality and precision or is there something else? I mean i dont really care about that whole crackling thing on the vinyl, im just more concerned about sound quality and precision. I do understand that vinyl has some rare records with sounds and samples that i would never hear of other than on that record. But even if i never heard of it, i would probably be able to use the internet to find it. Please help me with as much as you can and know. Thanks
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18 posts, Registered User
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for me it's a whole diferent feel when i sample for vinyl even though i sampled 3 or 4 beats from vinyl because in my country i couldn't find any vinyl store. i have only 6 romanian records.
does anyone know a good and cheap online record store?
Last edited by chemical21; 02-14-2009 at 02:13 PM..
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254 posts, Registered User
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I goot some in my favs at home but I just googled vinyl records and you'll find tons of places
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84 posts, Registered User
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by slik3
I was thinking of getting numark tt 200, tt 500 or maybe a gemini pt1000 since i cant really afford the technics 1200s... I also chose those because they are direct drive, high torque and that is what i undertand to be the most common standard of quality and performance for that price range. Would the numark or gemini be good enough to sample vinyl into my Korg Triton sampler and go from there. Also would a usb tt like the numark ttx get the job done correctly? Would you reccomend any other good turntables at an afforable price that i can use for sampling? I also understand that the cartridge and needle is important. Is the Stanton TII-SK cartridge a good one? Which ones would be the best at a cheap price that you know of?
Ok and one last thing that i just still dont understand and may sound stupid, but why should i sample using vinyl and a good turntable when i can sample songs out of my pc with mp3's or WAV files by just downloading rare songs only found on vinyl, playing a cd, or just looking them up on the internet since everything is there now? Is it the sound quality and precision or is there something else? I mean i dont really care about that whole crackling thing on the vinyl, im just more concerned about sound quality and precision. I do understand that vinyl has some rare records with sounds and samples that i would never hear of other than on that record. But even if i never heard of it, i would probably be able to use the internet to find it. Please help me with as much as you can and know. Thanks
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ok here we go:
1. If you aren't going to scratch, then don't buy any direct drive turntable. Instead buy a belt driven turntable with the ability to screw on a new needle.
2. Stay away from USB turntables because the encoders suck and even with a hi-fidelity needle it wont sound as good.
3. Buy the Shure m97xe cartridge alongside the Stanton H4-S Headshell and connect those two together. The headshell already has the wiring harnesses up so you can connect the wires in 3 minutes because everything is already color coded.
You might ask why that cartridge is a better deal than all the others? It retails for about 150 through many retailers and you can get it through amazon altogether for less than 75 dollars! The cartridge itself is used by many audiophiles and it puts minimal wear on your vinyl plus it doesn't exaggerate any of the frequencies. Having a flat sound on the records you sample will really make sound design so much easier.
4. If you want to be cheap you can nab a used turntable at your local thrift store for 20 dollars and just do the needle replacement method i mentioned.
5. If people are giving you vinyl mp3 rips, it would work well in a small sound environment, but once you take your songs out to the club sound systems you will hear how badly compressed that sample was in mp3 form. The compressed sound will also hurt the listeners ears at such a high volume.
6. Now if you are getting a hold of samples in Wav format there is much less compression and you can get away with mixing and playing your beats in a club sound system. I do this and i have had no complaints with the overall sound.
7. Vinyl is as rare as you think. If you can find the sample you want on a CD reissue use that. If you can find drum sounds on a dollar bin record. Use that. Don't fall into this "pete rock sampled this rare record, so i gotta sample it" hype. In order for you to sound dope you need to feel the sample.
hope that covers everything
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146 posts, Vic J ( BASSTRANAUTS )
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by daturocc
ok here we go:
1. If you aren't going to scratch, then don't buy any direct drive turntable. Instead buy a belt driven turntable with the ability to screw on a new needle.
2. Stay away from USB turntables because the encoders suck and even with a hi-fidelity needle it wont sound as good.
3. Buy the Shure m97xe cartridge alongside the Stanton H4-S Headshell and connect those two together. The headshell already has the wiring harnesses up so you can connect the wires in 3 minutes because everything is already color coded.
You might ask why that cartridge is a better deal than all the others? It retails for about 150 through many retailers and you can get it through amazon altogether for less than 75 dollars! The cartridge itself is used by many audiophiles and it puts minimal wear on your vinyl plus it doesn't exaggerate any of the frequencies. Having a flat sound on the records you sample will really make sound design so much easier.
4. If you want to be cheap you can nab a used turntable at your local thrift store for 20 dollars and just do the needle replacement method i mentioned.
5. If people are giving you vinyl mp3 rips, it would work well in a small sound environment, but once you take your songs out to the club sound systems you will hear how badly compressed that sample was in mp3 form. The compressed sound will also hurt the listeners ears at such a high volume.
6. Now if you are getting a hold of samples in Wav format there is much less compression and you can get away with mixing and playing your beats in a club sound system. I do this and i have had no complaints with the overall sound.
7. Vinyl is as rare as you think. If you can find the sample you want on a CD reissue use that. If you can find drum sounds on a dollar bin record. Use that. Don't fall into this "pete rock sampled this rare record, so i gotta sample it" hype. In order for you to sound dope you need to feel the sample.
hope that covers everything |
Wow that was a lot of helpful tips. Thanks a lot man. I just have some questions.
1) Do all belt drives have the ability to screw on a new needle? And do direct drive even have this capability?
2) Have you heard of the Shure m447 cartridge? If so, is it any good? Is the cartirdge really that important? If the turntable already comes with a hardshell and cartiridge that are the same brand as the turntable, would it be any good? and are all hardshell and cartridges replaceable? on direct drives?
3) You didnt mention any specific needle, beacuse on amazon it says people usually buy that hardshell and cartridge together along with a Shure stylus. Are you implying that the cartridge already comes with the needle, or do i need to buy that as well?
4) When i mentioned sampling from mp3s and CDs i meant that if it was a good a idea to sample from a cd player or like my computer directly into my sampler? You are saying then that the sound quality on vintage vinyl records are better than those mp3s you can download and will sound cleaner due to the fact that they arent compressed right? What do you mean CD reissue? Arent Cd's on mp3 formats?
Please help. Thanks
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84 posts, Registered User
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by slik3
Wow that was a lot of helpful tips. Thanks a lot man. I just have some questions.
1) Do all belt drives have the ability to screw on a new needle? And do direct drive even have this capability?
2) Have you heard of the Shure m447 cartridge? If so, is it any good? Is the cartirdge really that important? If the turntable already comes with a hardshell and cartiridge that are the same brand as the turntable, would it be any good? and are all hardshell and cartridges replaceable? on direct drives?
3) You didnt mention any specific needle, beacuse on amazon it says people usually buy that hardshell and cartridge together along with a Shure stylus. Are you implying that the cartridge already comes with the needle, or do i need to buy that as well?
4) When i mentioned sampling from mp3s and CDs i meant that if it was a good a idea to sample from a cd player or like my computer directly into my sampler? You are saying then that the sound quality on vintage vinyl records are better than those mp3s you can download and will sound cleaner due to the fact that they arent compressed right? What do you mean CD reissue? Arent Cd's on mp3 formats?
Please help. Thanks
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1. Not all belt drives have the ability to switch the needle. If the headshell is metal, you usually can twist off the headshell and do your modifications. If the headshell is plastic then you are stuck with using a stock plastic stylus. You cannot swap out the stylus on any portable turntable either.
2. The m447 is great for scratching because it can pick up the low frequencies much better. However, try to use a hi-fi needle/cartridge so when you chop things that require highs to be sampled (i.e. horns, pianos, strings). The stock needle is always crap, but if you are broke then you just have to work with it. That shure m97xe is dope because the sound is flat and if you have a good audio editor you can do the EQ from there or even through your outboard mixer.
Having a flat sound means so much to me because I can hear things on the record I never hear before even with 20 dollar headphones. Once you hear things like room resonance, echoes, random recording messups you will get a better picture of what to chop and what not to chop.You will notice things like a cleaner drum hit and mistake the drummer made.
Just buy the headshell and the cartridge. Wire the two together (no solder needed). Twist off the old headshell on your turntable. Twist on the new headshell. Most direct drives I have seen do have the ability to remove the headshell out.
3. All you need to buy on amazon is the stanton headshell and the m97xe cartidge. The cartidge itself has the stylus built-in. Even if you choose to get the m447, all you will need to get is the headshell and cartridge.
4. Sampling from a CD player is fine. Sampling from the computer is ok as well. Vinyl, CD, FLAC, WAV will all sound clearer than MP3.
All audio formats are compressed except FLAC........MP3's are just overcompressed to save disc space.
CD's are actually on CDDA format which can be easily derived from WAV files and that's why its easer to get a better sounding CD when you burn the WAV file instead of the mp3 because there is much less compression and then unpacking and dithering to do.
CD reissues are usually CD versions of old records and some are remastered. If you can try to sample the remastered version because they usually use a 24 bit console and make the mix much better than the original.
Ubiquity Records and Now-Again are some great labels who do great remastering of funk records.
hope that helps
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146 posts, Vic J ( BASSTRANAUTS )
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by daturocc
1. Not all belt drives have the ability to switch the needle. If the headshell is metal, you usually can twist off the headshell and do your modifications. If the headshell is plastic then you are stuck with using a stock plastic stylus. You cannot swap out the stylus on any portable turntable either.
2. The m447 is great for scratching because it can pick up the low frequencies much better. However, try to use a hi-fi needle/cartridge so when you chop things that require highs to be sampled (i.e. horns, pianos, strings). The stock needle is always crap, but if you are broke then you just have to work with it. That shure m97xe is dope because the sound is flat and if you have a good audio editor you can do the EQ from there or even through your outboard mixer.
Having a flat sound means so much to me because I can hear things on the record I never hear before even with 20 dollar headphones. Once you hear things like room resonance, echoes, random recording messups you will get a better picture of what to chop and what not to chop.You will notice things like a cleaner drum hit and mistake the drummer made.
Just buy the headshell and the cartridge. Wire the two together (no solder needed). Twist off the old headshell on your turntable. Twist on the new headshell. Most direct drives I have seen do have the ability to remove the headshell out.
3. All you need to buy on amazon is the stanton headshell and the m97xe cartidge. The cartidge itself has the stylus built-in. Even if you choose to get the m447, all you will need to get is the headshell and cartridge.
4. Sampling from a CD player is fine. Sampling from the computer is ok as well. Vinyl, CD, FLAC, WAV will all sound clearer than MP3.
All audio formats are compressed except FLAC........MP3's are just overcompressed to save disc space.
CD's are actually on CDDA format which can be easily derived from WAV files and that's why its easer to get a better sounding CD when you burn the WAV file instead of the mp3 because there is much less compression and then unpacking and dithering to do.
CD reissues are usually CD versions of old records and some are remastered. If you can try to sample the remastered version because they usually use a 24 bit console and make the mix much better than the original.
Ubiquity Records and Now-Again are some great labels who do great remastering of funk records.
hope that helps |
Man thanks a lot. That was a lot of information to take in. I hope i can understand everything you said and trust your word for it. lol. Anyways, so why do people even still sample from vinyl when you say that remastered CD reissues are better to sample from? Should i even get a turntable and bother to buy vinyl when i could just buy CDs or download certain songs?
One more thing. Is it necessary to buy that new headshell? Does the headshell really improve the quality, or can i just use the headshell the turntable came with and just buy the new cartridge? I know that is important. Or is it absolutely necessary to buy the new headshell so i can use the new cartridge? thats all. Please Help.
Thanks
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84 posts, Registered User
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by slik3
Man thanks a lot. That was a lot of information to take in. I hope i can understand everything you said and trust your word for it. lol. Anyways, so why do people even still sample from vinyl when you say that remastered CD reissues are better to sample from? Should i even get a turntable and bother to buy vinyl when i could just buy CDs or download certain songs?
One more thing. Is it necessary to buy that new headshell? Does the headshell really improve the quality, or can i just use the headshell the turntable came with and just buy the new cartridge? I know that is important. Or is it absolutely necessary to buy the new headshell so i can use the new cartridge? thats all. Please Help.
Thanks
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1. People will sample from vinyl because its cheaper. You are more likely to get the Shaft soundtrack is very good condition in the dollar bin. You can use a hi-fi needle and a good sound interface to record it and do audio restoration yourself or pay 15 bucks for the CD?
2. People also like to sample vinyl because a lot of the records are no longer in circulation meaning they might be one of the few out there with that sample. If you are one of the few out there with that record and you sample it, what are the odds that someone might sue you?(I know its a moral dilemma)
3. Vinyl covers tend to also have rare artwork they might not include in a CD remaster. A lot of that is just inspirational. If you can visually understand what the artist was doing with the art you might be able to understand what the meaning of the record was.
4. There will aways be those white labels/promos that you might never hear again even if you google it.
5. Vinyl has a natural warmth and rate of compression that even if you use a hi-fi needle the quality of the sound brings back the mood of that recording.
6. Some vinyl have linear notes that describe everything about the record and its always good to know those things (i.e. Stevie Wonder-Music in the Keys of Life).
7. No need to get a new headshell if you want to use your old one. Just make sure the wire connectors are color coded so you don't miswire things. When i bought my display model of the ion ttusb (numark garbage), mine didn't come with a headshell or needle. But for 50 bucks, can i really complain. So if you want to use your old headshell it should cost you a bit less then.
any other questions?
bless up
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289 posts, Registered User
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i'm not sure i agree with the turntable advice being given here. if you're serious about sampling from vinyl, then invest a little extra in a direct drive turntable. i've tried to sample using an old sony turntable and the outcome was not good. when u have something like a belt driven turntable, u have to think of start up and stop time, and it just a hassel. think about it, if you're at a club and the dj is spinng vinyl, he's probably using a shure m44-7 or an upper line stanton or ortofon. if u want ur music to be played by professionals, then it would be better to use professional equipment. i'm not saying go out and buy a technic 1200 mk6, just get a dencent direct drive turntable, somethin like a stanton t90 or numark tt 500. btw, not everything is on the internet like u think, digging is vital to finding amazing sample. most rare samples that big name producers use come from digging through vinyl and sometimes cd.
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84 posts, Registered User
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oh, i also forgot to add that once you get your new cartridge installed you will need to break it in!!!!! So play the needle on c rappy record you have for an hour at a time on the dead part of the record and test it out by playing it on a good part of the record.......it shouldn't sound harsh to the ears.....the record should sound more natural.
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