trance: tips on how to make more "powerful" and danceable

The benefite of the building block-

The following is a responce to the whole notion of that people learning and using the building blocks of a genre serve as force that hinders the progression of a genre. it seems to me that on subjects like this, often we forget the importance of mimicing within life, and also within music.

consider this for a second:

when a person is first born, they know nothing; it is only by mimicing (observing and imitating the buildingblocks of action around them), particularly in speech that a child is able to adapt to their environment. Often, the child doesnt understand the significance of their actions in the context of life, however, they quickly grow into a being that is capable of reasoning and understanding.

in addition, it seems to me that even groups, etc that made the greatest contributions to modern music started with rediments and formulaic music: would the beatles have ever created Sgt pepper, let it be, and abbey road if they hadnt had to trudge through the same cliche, over copied standards etc back in their younger days as the quarrymen or the silver beatles. Perhaps formulas are more important than you may think.

I understand owners desires for new and innovative music, but in order for that to develop, almost every tree must start as a seed. speaking as a person who is still relatively new to the world of composition, i made my way through the whole 'random' non formulaic music scene towards the beginning of my studies. I soon learned that one has to aquire a taste for the rules so he/she can adiquately break them.

just my two cents- that's all :)

- LODGER
 
Last edited:
additionally, i wouldn't say i hear terribly original music in clubs - most of it's just band-wagon jumping. even, especially on the internet the most downloaded bands (especially trance) and just watered down, unadventurous drivel for the most part.

and it's not a matter of staying tightly within the norm.

musical cliche's allow us to call on a history already established with the listener: when people hear a certain bassdrum or 303 sound or kind of progression they KNOW what they're going to get. we CAN build it from scratch but there are other ways.

and in my opinion, it's easy to make music without boundries, that is so far alienated from a genre that is simply original - but i think it's easy to compose with no limits. but i think that composing with a set of criteria the composition needs to meet are harder and ultimately more of an art.

yo-yo ma says that perfection is the balance between cold, machine technicality and the chaos of human emotion. and that is what i think of when i think of composition with no confines...

does my view point about cliche sounds have merit?
 
It is entirely up to you as to how you produce your music. Cliches are relavent in music , they are called hooks. How you set them is important . The setting for a cliche should represent it in a new and interesting form. That is art as opposed to print making.

I guess if you really want to know how to make trance music you should listen to lots of really good trance records , alot. And go out to loads of trance clubs to see what shakes and moves the crowd. This would be the best advice I can possibly give.

Lodger , all music has limitations , self imposed or not. It is working within those limitations that makes your style unique. But at the base of it all you must have a feel for it if you are going to shine amongst the mass of badly produced stuff that is out there. You should be true to your roots and your feelings about music , this is what all those who have broken a new genre and set a new trend have done.
 
I thought the hook was the melody. Not the cliche, but rather the unique part of the song that makes it different than all the other tracks.

I tend to agree with Lodger the most-- understanding the building blocks of a genre is an important part of creating your own sound. Before you can create your own language, you must first speak a language that others can identify with, and then take it in a different direction. Without a frame of reference, all you're left with is experimental music that nobody understands or wants to listen to.

It can also be very helpful to learn how to simulate a sound because it helps train your ears, and gives you a better understanding of your instrument/equipment. It is much easier to learn the ins and outs of something when you have a particular goal in mind. Just look at young rock bands, they almost always start out playing covers, before they gain the maturity and technique to move on to writing original material.

Of course you need to let your emotion and original vision come through in the music you write, but first you have to be comfortable with your tools. I used to write with a given genre in mind, but now I find that if I think "I'm going to write a trance track" I always come up with some gawd awful shite and delete it immediately, but if I sit down with an open mind and start experimenting I usually come up with something inspired. It took me a couple years to get to this point though, and I realise that learning to speak within a given musical language has helped me find my own unique voice.
-mj-
 
Agreed, completely!! - to quote Calvin from Calvin & Hobbes:

'If you can communicate coherently, then what's the point in saying anything at all?'

I think we've proven for the sake of this discussion that understanding the language and expressions of any style are important to expressing yourself coherently in that genre. Etc.

Gary G.
 
Trance

I made trance for a while ..... was fun but have moved on to just straight elecronica + pop, pop in an attempt to maybe make a living at this, wel I have to dream ya know.

1) The groove is everything, if you have a good groove all that other stuff compression eq.... means nothing. Forget about that for now. you need to focus on creating a killer groove.

2) Trance, good trance uses very basic grooves such as kick drum, snare or clap or anything in that frequency and HH. The HH's are where you will get your variation from.

3)Kick for now just leave it on 1 2 3 4

4) Start of with an open HH on the 'and' beats just for now

5) put the snare clap frequency on 2 and 4

6)Move the snare to the left 2 ticks

7)keep everything else quantized to a swing that equals 2 ticks this is important and a lot of trance is utilizing this subliminal swing. to keep things rolling.

8)Now for some variation with 2 or 3 closed hh sounds to supplement the open hat on the and beats, I like to use broken 16th notes. What you do is lay out a closed hat on every 16th division start with one sound for now, including the e's and a's (every 16th note division.)

Then start from left to right and mute one note at a time so start with the farthest left note and mute that see if it works if it does copy the whole MIDI Pattern and move it away. Then start from the every 16th note again and unmute the next note, if it works copy again and save. After you have tried every note (just one note to start, find the one you like best, and start from there.

You can leave it like it is or you can do the same thing again only this time keep the note you like muted and then mute from left to right until you find a second note based on the first muted note that you like leave it or keep going. This will show you almost every variation of closed 16th hats you can use and allows you to choose one or two or three to combine together. It also lets you start from somthing that works instead of just trying things and getting lost. you can also work backwards and add one note at a time just throw a note in there that works and start from there trying out every variation that you can think of (you will have tons of new grooves this way) (there are people who would hate me sharing this but it will alow you to always create a groove that works on the dance floor)

Next the Lead= Once you have a good groove the lead should not be as hard, you can write a straight lead or an aprpegiated lead, Try to add a more loose feel to the lead by moving notes a tick or two to the left or right or playing it in and then quantizing 97%. I usually just input notes and then move the whole pattern to the left1- 3 ticks it pushes the track along. Also you can turn off the snap to grid and just input notes where they sound good instead of snapping first and then moving around, I love doing that + some percentage quantize it works some of the time.

The entire groove should be "danceable fully quantized though" That is a common mistake thinking that the reason you can't dance to a groove is that it is fully quantized that is not true it should at least work fully quantized.

The hats,
After you have the placement of one sound with the open hat how you like it, try to replace some of them with a slightly different sound this will get you started with dynamics. At first only use very slight dynamic changes untill you get real good at it. Try no more than 10 difference between each note. the different HH sound works real good on the e's and a's assuming you picked the right sound. You can also add a straight 16th note shaker and move it to the left 4 ticks it will push the hh's along make it real low in the mix though.

Sounds:
When you are first starting out, use presets and other people sound and tweak from there, buy a synth programming book and study the presets on synths you like, that will get you startd with timbres.

Run white noise through and EQ and Sweep the frequencis do this 4 or 5 times a day it will really start to make sense when you start programming your own sounds.

You can also do this with raw wave forms from your synths....

You may ask, do I have to do all this just to make trance, How long and how much practice does it take to rock at the guitar? it is the same thing for programming.

Study rock beat midi files BFD has amazing MIDI files, Start from one of those beats and try to add one BD in the right spot to vary it or try to add 2 high hats in the right spot + one BD. You will fine that there may only be 1 or 2 right spots in a groove.

The main reason why tracks don't groove is the actual note placement, not the dynamics. Where you place each note comes first then make it better with velocity/timbre changes, don't expect dynamics to take a not so good groove and make it work. With trance the HH's should be the main area that you add velocity and timbre dynamics don't do it to the bass drum.

It takes away from the lead with can go crazy with automation LFO's velocity to cutoff all that great stuff that makes a sound move. Remember the reason why certain grooves are used so much, is that there is not a limitless variation to get that feel. For example for some rock beats, 2 bar beats, there is only one variation to that specific first bar of the beat that will keep the first bar riding along.

Sort of like fills, why is that rolling snare used so much (or used to be used so much, now it is FX fills) because certain fills just work for driving dance music. Depending on your lead and broken 16th note hats there may only be certain fills or variation that will keep to the same groove, the difficulty is finding them.

I use the one note a time/ multiple variation technique 1)it works every time you will never be without a groove that way
2)You will find other great grooves for other tracks at the smae time as writing the current track.

After you have the basics above you can add incidentals with HH like sounds to layer on the hats and push the beat a long+ Ghost notes, try not to add ghost notes before the lead this way they will fit perfectly with the track. You can add ghost notes at the start though it is just my own techniqu to add them to various patterns after the basic stuff is complete. Again you don't have to hear these sound but they will push micro air I call it. Yes I have great words for things.

Good luck and don't get up untill you've got the groove, just stay there try every variation you can untill you get it or your eyeballs pop out of your head or you have been listening to the same loop you made that sucks for so long that you hate music for a month. hahah...

ModularJack said:
I thought the hook was the melody. Not the cliche, but rather the unique part of the song that makes it different than all the other tracks.

I tend to agree with Lodger the most-- understanding the building blocks of a genre is an important part of creating your own sound. Before you can create your own language, you must first speak a language that others can identify with, and then take it in a different direction. Without a frame of reference, all you're left with is experimental music that nobody understands or wants to listen to.

It can also be very helpful to learn how to simulate a sound because it helps train your ears, and gives you a better understanding of your instrument/equipment. It is much easier to learn the ins and outs of something when you have a particular goal in mind. Just look at young rock bands, they almost always start out playing covers, before they gain the maturity and technique to move on to writing original material.

Of course you need to let your emotion and original vision come through in the music you write, but first you have to be comfortable with your tools. I used to write with a given genre in mind, but now I find that if I think "I'm going to write a trance track" I always come up with some gawd awful ****e and delete it immediately, but if I sit down with an open mind and start experimenting I usually come up with something inspired. It took me a couple years to get to this point though, and I realise that learning to speak within a given musical language has helped me find my own unique voice.
-mj-

It took me 6 or 7 years to be able to write great ryhtym tracks every time I am in the studio. I used to spend a week trying to get good rythym tracks untill I realized that I was spending to much time thinking about velocity and ticks movements and not enough on where each sound I am using is placed in the context of the groove.

I know I sound mathmatical but trust me starting from the point I said in my earlier post will breed creativity, it will also boost your confidence because of the wuick results you will get, which will in turn make you work longer. get excited and inspired. After a while you wont need excitement or inspiration, just time.....
 
Last edited:
Try reading the dance music manual. It is really usefull! I read it and explained everything, do soMe research buddy. I'd explain but I'm on my iPod touch :(
 
Dmm

SPECIAL-T said:
Try reading the dance music manual. It is really usefull! I read it and explained everything, do soMe research buddy. I'd explain but I'm on my iPod touch :(


A new one should be out some time this year. The first one was great. The thing is I don't think actual composition is stressed enough, and you get people thinking that you can't groove to there music because the dynamics are not right, then when you listen to the track it is the actual composition that is to blame. I recommend listening to MIDI files, logic pro has a bunch if you know some one who has it get all the MIDI apple loops as midi files and run them through your drum sounds, then quantize everything and set all the velocities to 120. You will see that even then it still works (maybe sounds too mechanical and unpro. or even bad, but you can still dance to it).

The rest is dynamics: that includes velocity (how hard) timbre changes(different sounds acting as one or velocity layered) Slight tick movements (live feel can also be achieved through playing then percentage quantizing 95 to 98 percent or not at all if it sounds right just make sure the kicks are all on grid, snares only moved by one or two ticks I recommend only one. The sounds: without great sounds trance would not be good music, great news, today great sounds are easy to get through sample CD's and soft synths, for synths really focus on the detuning setting for your osc. It will give the thickness you are looking for. +3 and -3 is a great start or the multi sawwaves detuned is great 2.

I am by no means some musical geneous, also I don't really make the greatest music in the world, but my technical knowledge is way up there so if you have questions let me know I love to share sound design techniques. When I say tech knowledge I also mean in regards to music, I know what makes a good track (can't always do it myself, or so I think) but I seem to be able to help others do it. I have a buddy who I taught everything I know and he kills it, he will have records out as soon as he chooses to do it, he is that good, and he attributes me to helping him get there.

I don't charge anything just like to write about it (as you can see) and help others excel. So Private message me with any questions and I will help get you there. Eddie Bazil is someone who has mentored me and he always stressed playing in things. If you get in the habit of playing things in you will be ahead of the game, of course he kills it as well, he can play 16th at 150 bpm with no problem at all.

You may ask, but if you play it in how to you get those 32nd notes and 64th notes. Easy, an arpeggiator, then after you correct it, that way you use your internal feel to get it in the right place and then delete the notes that overlap or go to far, you can even do 64th notes that way and it works. Then you edit velocities etc.

My korg padkontrol (wich I love) has a roll function attached to a chaos type pad that I use for crazy rolls and flams, it is sick, but of course an arpeggiator will work as well. Also if you are playing it in, make sure the latency it at its lowest setting your computer can handle, if that means bouncing or freezing existing tracks than do it. Contrary to popular belief you do not need an MPC or hardware sequencer to play in well, although you may want to consider a cheap external hardware sound module that has drums (all types) synths and all acoustic instruments plus an envelop so that you can play in without any latency and sound match to make sure it will fit the sound you design with your soft synths.

Ofcourse with processor power these days you really don't need to do that, but if you have a G5 dual 1.8 like me it may help you out in the long run. If you don't play it in (and you should at least try) then you don't ever need hardware. Again I have used MPC's and software sequencers and have gotten great live feels using both, it is a bit different but with the latency low enough it is not a worry I would have.

Not to say that the MPC's arent the #$#%, they are awesome but not absolutely neccesary for a great live feel, some guys just use fruity loops, it's not what you have but how you use it that counts, there will be producers that kill it with just using reason without anything else including the mix down and are ten times better than you. Anyways just rambling going into the studio now.

Have fun

I have really gotten to the point of being able to just play in what I want, and program the unplayable stuff, I would highly recommend practicing playing in grooves if its to fast try slowing the track down and see if that works, I just stopped making such fast dance tracks and found by playing things in it was much more fun and my ideas were better.
 
To me it's really the build ups and sounds people cans dance to. Listen to kid kudi remix day n' night the build upnis so simple and the womp womp chorus is incredible, listen to more electro, house and even visit a club to get ideas. It's all about the lay out off the song and all the velocities. If you can't dance to your own track, then you need to add rythem and percussion. Do some research and YouTube house music and the begining of it. Also check out AC Slater jack got jacked, crookers, the bloody beetroots, MSTRKRFT and others depending on what you like
 
I dont know where to begin...

Allright, im 16, only recently getting into trance/ebm, and im falling in love with it. I dont really know many artists though...

Robert Miles is my favorite so far, and i really like Dj Tiesto and Eden Synthetic Corps. The only thing that i dont like about some trance is the obsession with female voices singing the entire time. Sometimes (especially when used in Robert Miles' tracks) the singing can really add some nice atmosphere, but other stuff (like if you just search trance on youtube) is either boring or annoying to me.

I want to make something with an epic emotion, both sad and happy that really is just MY physical soul outpouring. My friend is going to sell his Korg Electribe EMX to me, but I have no idea how it works. I borrowed it and just read through the manual, but still have no idea how to make my own piece of music. I have a keyboard too, and kinda jam on that. Can I connect the keyboard to the electribe, record a part to it (like a "synth part"), then remix it and add percussion/FX to make an entire song??

I honestly don't really know what I am talking about, nor where to begin to learn. I dont know anyone that works with this kind of equipment, and my parents are quite strict so trying to go to some dance clubs to experience this stuff is a few years down the road for me.

I guess I'm asking for some inspirational composers of really exciting and epic electronic music, and then where to begin creating my own electronic music (what equipment is needed and what resources to learn from)?
Thank you!
 
Reply to underzoath7861

underzoath7861: I know what you mean by female vocals - they have become too much of a cliche over the years. What you are listening to when you hear this is a sub-genre of Trance: It's called Vocal Trance (for obvious reasons). Of course nearly every Trance DJ will want to do a Vocal Trance track sooner or later, but let me recommend you some artists to listen to, and maybe even find inspiration from to start producing your own trance. I will include some good songs to listen to by the artists in brackets:

- Sash! (Encore Un Fois)
- Vincent De Moor (Sunflower and Mystique Colors)
- Rank 1 (Airwave)
- The Thrillseekers (Synaestasia)
- Three Drivers (Greece 2000)
- Darude (Sandstorm)
- Kamaya Painters (Endless Wave)
- Adam Foley (Indefinite Suspension)
- Intertia (The System)

and of course
- DJ X-Maramena (Verse 1, Culture Of Trance, Skye)


Now, you asked about equipment. Well, I sometimes use Cubase or Fruity Loops Studio (FL Studio), but most of the time I use GarageBand, which when used properly with some decent external synths, can be very good indeed. As a good way to start, I would recommend GarageBand, and download or order on CD: Vanguard. It comes in an AU/VST format so it can run with GarageBand, Cubase, or Fruity Loops. You can get Vanguard from the ReFx website. I also came across an extremely good pack of preset banks for free download. If you don't know what a preset bank is: it's a selection of synth templates for you to work on with the synth interface. In Vanguard's case, it's an analogue synth with 3 oscillators. All this technical talk will make a whole lot of sense once you get the products, or have a look-see on the internet for info. You can get the preset banks by searching on google for "Vanguard Preset Bank Free Download". After a while, you will come across this selection. It's on a shareware site which I think you need to register. Don't worry - it's free. If you have trouble finding it, send me a message and give me your email or something and I will send the banks to you. They are superb and can't be missed. Also, Preset Banks for Vanguard are extremely small file sizes. The whole collection of banks is 1.3MB, so extremely easy to share and download. Be careful of some bank downloads - they are actually demo banks, and will disappoint you as they run out of trial time. These are also known as "FreeSets", so stay away. Vanguard as no decent percussion without the extra banks as it's a melodic synthesizer. I would recommend Hypersonic 2 for percussion, and although it's manufacturer have discontinued it, there are still download locations for it. However, if you can't get hold of percussion, use the "Dance Kit" on GarageBand. Stay away from "Techno Kit"! The hats are much better on the Dance one - though there is no closed hat, instead there are 3 open hats with different lengths. I suggest the middle one (G-Sharp above C1). If you want to send me a message with your email or something, I will send you a selection of percussion loops that I made. They're all set at 140BPM, but if you fiddle in GarageBand, and cut, join, trim, etc. just a bit, then send it to loop library, you can make it into a loopshot so it conforms to any tempo in GarageBand.

As for Keyboards and actual, live, touchable, solid 3D, (ie. not on a computer screen) synthesizer, I don't know a lot about synthesizers but you will be able to connect your Keyboard to your computer via MIDI. If your computer doesn't have a MIDI input, you can buy a MIDI-USB controller. However, you will not be able to transfer the sounds from your Keyboard directly - companies spend a lot of time creating these sounds and they don't want them spreading around the place for free when one guy puts them on the internet. You will have to record with a microphone if you want the keyboard sounds, and then it will be a lot harder to "fiddle" with. When you make trance, unless you want it to sound very amateur, don't use a Keyboard. Just input the notes on the grid, or "piano roll". That way they are already quantized ready for playback.


Well, I hope that's enough info for now.

Send me a message if you need anything by clicking on my username above! I'm always here to help if there's something you don't understand, or are struggling with!


Have fun!

DJ X-Maramena
 
Last edited:
Effects have very little to do with what makes a song danceable. Adding compression isn't going to do a thing for it. There are three things that do it:

1. Build - you can build tension in many ways. Be creative. You need to create this sense of tension to make the next step effective.

2. Release - How you utilize the tension you previously generated. If you don't pull this off properly, then you wasted the entire build.

3. Emphasis on the down beat - pretty self explanatory, but there are many ways you can do this. The most common is with the kick on the 1's and the hat on the 3's, but that's pretty boring. Again, be creative.
 
i took a listen to some of the songs xmaramena posted and i cant say they are catchy. I dont make trance or usually listen to it, but i find a lot of the stuff really boring, the melodies and progressions that is.
Some friends of mine who loves techno, house, trance etc seem to love the hardcore tunes with more or less no melody to them...so to me the die hard fans of these genres do not like the commercial tunes like eric prydz stuff..I now the genres differ, but they kind of in the same `box`
 
Never mind this post sorry i didn't check the page

---------- Post added at 09:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:12 PM ----------

You can increase punch in your drums and bass and add power punch bite and spit too your leads using compression you need too fine tune attack and release times. For leads an attack of 9ms and release of 0 is what you need. For bass A ratio of around 8:1 along with an attack of 5-7 ms and a release of 600-700ms. And drums the Kick should have an attack of 20-30 ms and a release of 700-800 ms. Snare and claps should have an attack of anywhere between 10-60 ms and a release of 150-300ms. Hats and percussion have fast attacka and release times. This is all stuff i have been told by other producers it works well but there may be (and probably are) better settings so experiment but this is what i have found too work.
 
Last edited:
Wow. Reading this post back here... 2009? Back when I was a garageband fiddler and just beginning to experiment with sidechain compression. How naive!

I think if I was to answer now, I'd say it a lot simpler. Have a listen around, but get yourself one of the "mighty four" as we call it - Cubase, Reason, Logic, Ableton - some addon synths, then just play around and keep playing around. There's no shortcut. Give it a while and you'll eventually develop your own style which is what matters.
 
Back
Top