trance: tips on how to make more "powerful" and danceable

M

mrtaran

New member
when i listen to some of these (underground)trance songs
it seems impossible not to dance.
if you need some examples.. i will post them tomorrow..

sooo what i need is tips on how to make underground trance songs more.. powerful i guess

its possible that what i need is more effects, compression
but its this true? when i think about it.. i really think theres more to it than just adding this to a song
there has to be a lot before that

i notice theres like a simple bassline.. very repetitive thats somewhat low
theres a higher bassline that is a little more complex and longer.. like a warm pad or something

then theres the drumsss

theres the oxxxoxxxoxxxoxxx for kick
theres an offbeat drum which varies from song to song


theres sometimes something near the end of the measure to
build up for the first measure
also theres something on the first measure also to keep interest
*Im Sorry My Explanation Is Horrible*

usually theres like 2 sets of hihats.. one thats main and one that complements it?

also theres a hell lot of effects in the songs i hear


ok i know i probably left of a lot and probably said a lot of incorrect sh*t.. but
can anyone explain anyway better?
also how about some tips and ideas on how to make something
with more power and dancibility? haha
ok
thanks
 
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if you have a loop of say two bars, wth individual sounds being sent to two different outputs, you could record a stereo seperated left and right recording, with the kick and toms sent to one channel, and the snare, hats and percussion sent to the other. Then you could go in to the harddisk recording of the loop and time stretch the hi hat sound to end just before the kick sounds.
 
well, there are a few things that you may or not have considered to give the desired effect

first of all, dynamics are a key factor in building intensity on a track. often, people dont fully realize the impact that they have on a song. since you're producing trance, im sure you've noticed that the music has peaks and valleys,by adding volume or subtracting volume at crucial moments, you can build up the energy of a track by attracting the listeners attention to the changes. an alternative\combination to/with the volume thing is the usage of high and lowpass.

the only other thing that i can think of to stress to you is that just as important as the notes, themselves is the rythym at which they fall. often, that simple bassline falls in between 4th nothes, thus giving a sort of pumping feel. the main pads often falls on a 4th note. and the supplimental bass can vary. well, i hope this was useful, most of the vets are probably rolling their eyes at the simplicity, but certain things are so simple, they are oftent he easiest to overlook.

Lodger
 
I was using the drums from my JV1080s techno board and wondered why my tracks somtimes seem dead?

I put a Sample loop in place of my rythem, what a difference. I find I have to treat my rythem sounds from my Techno board with compression EQ and of hi hats
exciter.

Sitting parts of your mix in the stereo field is also very important, I notice that alot of comercial tracks place the pats where they belong within the landscape of the stereo field.

Very basic info sorry.:bat:
 
oh its me ?

wow... your talking in that way i thought for some years.
i had the same questions and i learned that the music is just a circle of tricks! some helpfull tricks i found :

1. the groove
that means humanized notes a little offbeat. put the snare for example on the 2.bassdrum some frames earlier. not so much. so you get more "tshack" ! it sounds also very "elastic" on hihats or synthies.... but do not goove all, just some lines.the girls will shake asses!

2. deadnotes
to make the sound realy authentic add some notes to your sequences which are playd very down in the volume. a normal listener is not able to hear the deadnotes but they go directly into his brain! they make your beats rolling.

3. mixing
bass and base must be one. FX put on in the middle! hihats not to loud. compress all, be minimal.
 
With your drums divide into two channells , on one channel set the compression reaaly high , with low threshold.

On the other set a low threshold , low ratio and slowish attack.

Mix them together and get the balance where the peak of the lightly compressed channel is heard on the attack of the drums but the compressed channel is heard more on the decay.

This will bring life and power to the drums.
 
delay, delay

u mention fx - maybe it's too obvious (i.e. maybe everyone already does this!) but delay on leads and pads really adds atmosphere (especially when the repeats go through some dynamic filtering before hitting the desk/listener). Perfect for the chemically disrupted punter.

Then there's inter aural delay - when one ear hears a sound fractionally before it's partner. Using a send put your pad (which needs a hardish attack) through a delay set to low time - like 10ms - and no repeats. Instant stereo hugeness. Can sound like Bon Jovi, can sound like god. Just depends how lucky you are.:cheers:
KasioRoks
 
Sorry, meant to mention that for the stereo thing to work the original signal and the fx return need to be panned in opposite directions (i.e original hard right, fx return hard left.

KasioRoks



:cheers:
 
KasioRoks

The technique you are reffering to is the Haas effect , and the delay needs to be between 22ms and 40ms to get it to work.

I could go into a lengthy explanation ( full of jargon ) if anyone is remotely interested.
 
RobinH said:
KasioRoks

The technique you are reffering to is the Haas effect , and the delay needs to be between 22ms and 40ms to get it to work.

I could go into a lengthy explanation ( full of jargon ) if anyone is remotely interested.
Click to expand...
:hello:
 
anyone know what people use in progressive house/trance
as far as "subbass"?
like sinewave or something?
once the song starts playing the basic bassline(which is really mushed into the drums in my club) then it becomes danceable.. when i play my bass it sounds orrible..
anyone know what they usually use?

also... maybe what im thinking of is the toms in those tracks.. i dont know but theres something lerking that i cant exactly point out..

the part in any dance song that basically makes you bob your head atleast.. and the part that i cant do!!!


oh yea.. and sorry for the stupid questions :D
 
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hmm

i thought maybe i could post a song for people to
try to disect..

Schiller - Ruhe (humate remix)
on data records

what is it in this song? can someone explain the drums/bass/hats in combination that make it work?

:D

thankx


luv u
 
I take thats a yes PopD

The Haas effect.

This is a psychoacoustic phenomena , used significantly in live sound.

Any sound that is delayed by 20 - 40 ms from one source will appear as though it comes from the undelayed source even if it is up to 10dB louder.

Although this is an essential aspect of reinforcement speakers in live sound , it can also be used in a stereo mix.

If one stereo channel is delayed by 20 - 40 ms then the sound will seem to originate from the undelayed side. This is a way of producing pan FX but it will seem more powerful as the sound originates from both speakers.

Swap the delay in time with the tempo and you have some very interesting stuff going on.

There - minus the jargon:)
 
frankly, i haven't read all the posts in this thread yet, but i do have some tips to offer. i had the good fortune of becoming friends with an established dj who has done lots to encourage me and steer me in the right direction - my tracks have matured considerably with his input!

here's some of the things i think make tracks more powerful:

*hard kick, hard bass* people can't really dance without these two elements. alot of top-40-quality trance uses toned down kick and bass (really just a bass accent) but to get people really moving use a hard kick with lots of bass AND a punchy high end and a very, very pronounced bassline on the offbeat. i can reference some examples, but mauro picotto and some of the ralph fridge stuff is a good example.

*detuned synths* saw wave synths are a staple of trance. want them phatter? detune those waveforms! these are called 'hoovers' 'hoffers' and lots of other names. this will make your synths loud and fat.

*dynamics* the peaks and valleys of a track. filter sweeps, synth swells, snare swells all contribute to the dymanics of a track. not just volume!! the frequencies used or not used in a sound effect this considerably. i think we could call it 'contrast'.

*effects* don't just wash everything in effects. use them sparingly and they won't let you down. flange is very useful and often missing from novice tracks... mine are no expception.

*octaves* i got this from disecting other tracks. try shifting a melody up a whole octave before or after a build up. it gives things a peaking vibe. alternate one part up/ one down and you can keep a vibe going for a while without any real changes... trance control does this to DEATH.

*the kick* lastly, and this applies to me especially, don't just layer sounds to make them sound bigger. frequencies and waves can actually cancel each other out. i am bad for using 2 bass drums at once and ending up with a weaker sound for it....

good luck, y'all. keep trying you're sure to succeed.
 
something i'm really trying to do is learn how to write (or at least undertsand) the most basic elements that defin whether a track is trance or something that is not trance.

some elements, like the 4/4 kick, bassline on the offbeat, use of pedal bass, are plainly obvious but don't on their own make trance.

but can the vibe be defined?

(anyways, i hope that by understanding the trance vibe fully that i can be original and have it be trance. see, my complaint is this - lots of producers can only write totally generic, watered down trance with no soul. other guys are being very soulful and original but lack the trance vibe (often). the latter couldn't sound generic if they wanted because they don't truly undertsand the mechanics of trance music. i feel like i'm in the second catergory. i want to know how to write carbon copy trance so i can choose when to do so and when no to do so.)

i think this was a rant... sorry folks.
 
Go with what you feel. Let others try to classify (they will). I know you have to set yourself within a genre , but try to do this as a blueprint and then break it. The best music is like this as it has a peice of you. You can never compete with those that live and breath the music they do , so be the same yourself and create something from the soul. If you listen to alot of trance this is what will come out. Input = Output + you.

Just my 2p :) :) :)
 
i think we're talking about two different philosophies for composing music for a specific genre.... my philosophy is probably more conservative which has it's apparent downfalls.

does anyone mind hearing music that someone has decided to call dnb or trance or detroit a only to discover that it isn't?!

dissappointment is prolly the root of my philosophy...
 
I know you mean you want the building blocks of the genre so you can stay tightly within them. This is the sort of thing you do for library music or TV adds , but it is really crap work .

I find it impossible to come up with something inspirational that doesn't first start from a feeling I have. The music I listen to most informs me ( subconciously ) as to the elements I grab hold of to make that music.

As a label owner I 100% go for the vibe and the feeling of individuality in tracks. As soon as I hear that kind of " I've done this according to the book " type of track it goes in the bin.

I think most label owners I know are similar. So do you want to write music for TV adds or for Clubs. Do too much of one and you find it difficult to do the other. ( I find )
 
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