Are These Notes A-Tonal? Are They Even Notes? HOW TO MAKE THIS SOUND!!

itzdlo

itzdlo

ayodlo
Hows it going FP. I've been studying David Banner and Swiff D Lately. I cant figure out how they make this "ringing" sound as someone else described it.

The ringing sound starts at 0:18 and plays throughout the song - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq9kDSXTggg

The ringing sound is in this song too it starts at 0:06 and plays throughout - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbsnwjZPx2o

I don't know if these are music notes or what, is the sound going through some type of modifier like a ring modulator or something? I REALLY wanna figure this one out and no one has been able to help me! I know you experts on here can figure this one out! All help is GREATLY GREATLY appreciated, thanks all, hope all is well,

Devon
 
itzdlo said:
Hows it going FP. I've been studying David Banner and Swiff D Lately. I cant figure out how they make this "ringing" sound as someone else described it.

The ringing sound starts at 0:18 and plays throughout the song - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dq9kDSXTggg

The ringing sound is in this song too it starts at 0:06 and plays throughout - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbsnwjZPx2o

I don't know if these are music notes or what, is the sound going through some type of modifier like a ring modulator or something? I REALLY wanna figure this one out and no one has been able to help me! I know you experts on here can figure this one out! All help is GREATLY GREATLY appreciated, thanks all, hope all is well,

Devon
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TBH I dont know how to get the effect either but I think this weird siren effect thing is pretty popular in hip hop, lil waynes been using it for awhile and ive heard it in other songs too but i cant remember their names. Would much appreciate a tutorial on this!!
 
If I understand which sound you're talking about they are tonal but they are used as percussion. They're from analogue synths. I think its supposed to sound like a wooden block being hit. They're pretty ubiquitous in analogue sample packs and synthesisers called 'clave' or 'wood block' or something like that.

[Edit] I now realise thats not what you're talking about. I think it's just a synth with LFO modulated pitch or slow FM, but it could be a ring modulator but if it is it seems like its set very high.
 
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The ambiguity continues! Anyone else? Where are the veterans!!!!

---------- Post added at 03:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:35 AM ----------

Morning_Star, CPhoenix, Krushing, Band Coach, Moses, Deranged Phuked Up, dvycem - I know you guys got the wisdom to help us out! :angel:
 
pure and simple: ring modulated source (sounds very much like reasons subtractor ring mod algorithm). the source seems to run through a scale related to the original backing, and the modulation source seems to be quite high in comparison, so generating a wide complex harmonic spectrum as a result.

For those who have forgotten or don't know what ring mod does:

You have two signals that are cross-multiplied in an amplitude modulation: the modulator affects the carrier by rapidly (or slowly, depending on modulator freq) changing the amplitude of the (volume) of the carrier.

Digitally this usually shows as sum and difference of the two frequencies involved - i.e. the sidebands. E.G. if we have a carrier of freq 200Hz and a modulator of 900Hz, the output will be 1100Hz and 700Hz. Where the modulator's frequency is very low we hear this as a tremolo - a relatively fast upward and downward impact on the volume of the main signal. True ring modulation uses complex waveforms (and therefore complex harmonic spectra (this is the plural of spectrum)) to create noise like sounds

Typically this affect is achieved in the analogue domain by feeding two signals through a diode chaser array and two audio freq transformers

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipe...d/Ring_Modulator.PNG/300px-Ring_Modulator.PNG

here is a great article for those who are into the sonic technology of Dr Who original and current series

Ring Modulator : Recreating the sounds of the BBC Radiophonic Workshop ~ works best in safari and chrome (uses web audio api)
 
Dang man thanks for the reply. You know your stuff.

So he used RM instead of FM? I still don't get it exactly I tried looking up some stuff on it. Im confused about if Ring Modulation is used as in an effect to achieve the David Banner got, or if they are using a synth that modulators in RM instead of FM. Am I anywhere close to understanding? Haha.
 
“Modulation in electronic and computer music means that some aspect of one signal (the carrier) varies according to an aspect of a second signal (the modulator)” (Roads, The Computer Music Tutorial, 1995:p215).

Ring Modulation
Ring modulation is also called amplitude modulation: you use one signal to change the volume of another at slow speeds this is tremolo at faster speeds this causes a ringing that is (the sum and difference of) the original source freq +/- the modulating source freq: using simple sine waves this can be shown to be

sourcef
signal500Hz
mod200Hz
resultsf
sum700Hz
diff300Hz

output is a signal that has both 300Hz and 700Hz but not 500Hz or 200Hz

the following illustrates the layout of a ringmod algorithm

ringMod.png


and the result of using a carrier of 52Hz and a modulator of 102Hz

ringModGraphic.png


Amplitude modulation
Amplitude modulation differs from Ring modulation in two respects:
  1. the modulation function/source is unipolar (i.e. it has only a positive or negative amplitude profile); and
  2. the carrier remains as part of the output signal

the most common form of amplitude modulation we see in synthesis is the application of an envelope (adsr) to a signal.

amplitudeMod.png


and the result of using a carrier of 20Hz and an ADSR function

amplitudeModGraphic.png



Frequency modulation
Frequency modulation is actually not frequency modulation but phase modulation (only serves to confuse, I know, but that is what is really happening).

It uses a carrier that has it's phase modulated by second signal - the phase is modulated by the frequency of the mod signal by applying the output of the modulator to the frequency input of the carrier. the mod source causes the phase angle to be modified in a continuously varying pattern, resulting in sudden or subtle shifts in the output amplitude and frequency of the module

freqMod.png


(all images and some text taken from research summary I completed in 1997)
 
Wow, impressive stuff man. Do you have a PhD in this stuff? Again, I appreciate all the info. I think I understand it. Im gonna play with it for a while. However, when I throw a Ring Mod on a synth for instance, or when I use the ringmod inside of a synth (NI Massive) for example, I am not getting anything remorely close to what he was getting. His sounds so much more idk. Any idea how to get something similar to him? Is he playnig different notes?

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bump one time

---------- Post added 06-06-2013 at 01:54 PM ---------- Previous post was 06-02-2013 at 08:50 AM ----------

Last Recycle
 
Bandcoach I'm gonna have to disagree. I think it's a pitch bend, through some kind of envelop or lfo or something. My 2C. If you wanna get that sound make an envelope modulate the pitch of your oscillators really quickly.
 
Okay thanks fam I'm gonna play with the pitch modulation via an LFO and Envelope to see if I can come up with something similar. Thanks for dropping your input, if anyone else has any ideas please FEEL FREE TO SHARE!!!!!
 
ROBICHEAUX said:
Bandcoach I'm gonna have to disagree. I think it's a pitch bend, through some kind of envelop or lfo or something. My 2C. If you wanna get that sound make an envelope modulate the pitch of your oscillators really quickly.
Click to expand...

hmmm, 2 very experienced dsp oriented types suggest ring modulation and a newb suggests pitch bend - I know where my money would go (and this is not being disrespectful, simply pointing out that maybe our experience gives us an edge you do not have and a knowledge you obviously don't have)

thing is , you can hear two different pitch sets in there, which is the hallmark of ring modulation - think dalek voice, think cyberman voice, think green-meanie effect pedal - we are hearing positive and negative sidebands but not the core pitch, hence the dissonance and the consistency of the sound - if you were to apply an envelope or lfo to pitch modulation, the distance that would be effected would be different each time, instead of consistently the same increasingly dissonant sidebands as we get lower and lower
 
hmmm, 2 very experienced dsp oriented types suggest ring modulation and a newb suggests pitch bend
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Whether there is a ring modulator or not something is being pitch bent:


http://snd.sc/18VqLZU

What comes out of a ring modulator is only pitch bent if what goes into a ring modulator is pitch bent. They have no more to do with pitch bending than reverb or compression.
 
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however, pitch bending is not the root cause of the dissonance, the ring modulation is, which is the core question asked: are these notes dissonant and why?
 
however, pitch bending is not the root cause of the dissonance, the ring modulation is, which is the core question asked: are these notes dissonant and why?
​
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didn't known this was the root question here. I think this sound could easily be replicated in massive with an envelope or lfo (maybe both) modulating two oscillators. Or it could be one pitch bend going through ring modulation.

ring modulation is basically the function (EDIT 2: I know this isn't technically a function but you get my point) f(x,y)= x+y, x-y. If x is the pitch bent input and y is a constant modulator in the ring modulation, (is it usually a constant frequency that modulates it?) then it yields two linear functions, which is easily replicable with two oscillators being pitch bent. If y is not constant, you'll get some kind of curve, again, something that could be easily replicated in massive. (Envelope 2 modulates Envelope 1 which modulates oscillator 1 up and oscillator 2 down). That's all I'm saying. I don't think I'm THAT much of a newbie also, bandcoach -- just new to this forum.

edit: just tune the two notes to a wolf interval and you'll get a nice dissonant sound :berzerk:
 
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bandcoach said:
however, pitch bending is not the root cause of the dissonance, the ring modulation is, which is the core question asked: are these notes dissonant and why?
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The Ring modulator isn't the root cause of dissonance. The root cause of dissonance is the choice of frequency of the sounds going into the Ring modulator. If the signals going in are 1kHz and 2kHz sine waves the result isn't dissonant.
 
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