Minor chord progressions...

S

smjVersion1

New member
Okay, right now I'm above-average on keyboard, I know how to take a note and form major, minor, diminished, augmented, maj7, m7, all those kinds of chords, and I understand scales, both major and minor.

Usually I just play chords off what feels right, but I've started to get more into chord progressions lately and understanding how to form them. I understand I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, and vii* and how those chords work on different scales, and I know there are common progressions like ii-V-I, I-IV-V, and so on. But what I'm confused about, is how do the numbers change on a minor scale? I need to know how the chord numbers are in a minor scale(is it still I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, and vii*, or something else?), and what common chord progressions are there within minor scales?

Thanks to anyway who helps clear this up for me.
 
If you start on the 6th degree of the major scale, and keep the same maj/min qualities of the chords, you get the minor diatonic chords.

Maj = I, ii, iii, IV, V, vi, viidim
Min - i, iidim, bIII, iv, v, bVI, bVII

You can also use the harmonic and melodic minor scales to build diatonic chords from.

HarMin = i, iidim, bIIIaug, iv, V, bVI, viidim
MelMin = i, ii, bIIIaug, IV, V, vidim, viidim

A lot of writers will mix the minor chords for their needs. Often, the dominant V of the harmonic minor is used instead of the minor v of the natural minor.
 
man... what the hell are those roman numerals? i thought i knew chords but what is this??? can sum1 explain it to me?.
 
mannny596 said:
man... what the hell are those roman numerals? i thought i knew chords but what is this??? can sum1 explain it to me?.
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Roman numerals are the way people describe the chords, you see it when people describe a progression for instance, don't know WHY they are used but:

I, ii, iii, IV,V,vi,vii are the Diatonic chords you'd find in a Major scale and are simply chords built on 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 of the scale. So in the case of C Major. CMAJ,Dmin,Emin,FMaj,GMaj,Amin,Bdim

If you saw someone say, "I used this progression" I,IV,V. You can see that they have used the I chord, the IV chord and the V chord, if they were in say the key of G Major, the chords would be: GMaj, CMaj, DMaj.

If they said this progression, I, iii, ii, IV and they were in the key of say C Maj, you can see that the chords, CMaj,Emin,Dmin,FMaj have been used.

They are simply related to the note intervals and the chords built on those notes, when you see lower case letters like, 'ii'. It's a minor chord by the way. There are also other things to consider.

Incidently, on the subject of chords, I came across this the other day and I'm not entirely sure how to play it, can someone enlighten me?

The chord is: C(b9)sus
 
Delphine said:
The chord is: C(b9)sus
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C-Db-F-G

Sus = suspended. Usually, you'll see sus4 or sus2. The character of the chord is suspended by dropping the 3rd(which differentiates maj & min chords) and the 2nd or 4th is played instead. Sus chords are neither maj or min.

Also, when you see sus w/o the 2 or 4, you can assume it's sus4.
 
Bezo said:
C-Db-F-G

Sus = suspended. Usually, you'll see sus4 or sus2. The character of the chord is suspended by dropping the 3rd(which differentiates maj & min chords) and the 2nd or 4th is played instead. Sus chords are neither maj or min.

Also, when you see sus w/o the 2 or 4, you can assume it's sus4.
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Yeah, I know what sus chords are, it was the b9 in brackets that got me wondering. I took it as meaning a flat 9th, but why is it in a bracket?

Anyway, cheers for clearing it up.
 
it means that you have to lower the 9th note which would normally be the D. If you had no brackets you would read it as a Cb which means a B.

Its more l ike math :) keeping things togheter.
 
Ok, it seems like I have a lot of learning to do with chords. Can someone recommend a good book that will get down to the nitty gritty in music theory with an emphasis in Jazz music? That will help me out a whole lot. I'm still learning and actually I'm getting pretty good at playing the keyboard. But I feel like I'm limited because I know nothing about theory. Like if I'm in the key of C# and I play a C# maj7 chord as my 1....what do I play next if i I wanted to go to a 5 or a 7? Or Lets say I want to compose a bridge for a song...do I actually change keys to get that bridge like sound...or do I just do a different progression? If I do change keys...what key would I change to if I was in the key of C# or Ab for that matter? Thanks in advance for the help.
 
agapetraxx said:
Ok, it seems like I have a lot of learning to do with chords. Can someone recommend a good book that will get down to the nitty gritty in music theory with an emphasis in Jazz music? That will help me out a whole lot. I'm still learning and actually I'm getting pretty good at playing the keyboard. But I feel like I'm limited because I know nothing about theory. Like if I'm in the key of C# and I play a C# maj7 chord as my 1....what do I play next if i I wanted to go to a 5 or a 7? Or Lets say I want to compose a bridge for a song...do I actually change keys to get that bridge like sound...or do I just do a different progression? If I do change keys...what key would I change to if I was in the key of C# or Ab for that matter? Thanks in advance for the help.
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Are you asking for someone to tell you a chord progression, or just asking what the Diatonic chords are in C# Major?

What do you mean by go to a 5 or a 7? If you mean the 5th and 7th chord in that scale, it would be G#Maj and B#dim. The Diatonic chords of Major scales are always the same regardless of your root note. M,m,m,M,M,m,dim. But it's up to you what you play I guess and nothing wrong with using borrowed chords if you can make them sound good.

I think I know what you mean about the 'bridge'. It doesn't mean you have to modulate key, just change the chord progression for the chorus. Have a read up on things like Cadences in Google and using Dominant 7ths.

You may find this a good read: http://chordmaps.com/

In there you will find ideas for possible chord progressions, what chords sound good when they flow together etc.

If you are unsure about how to play some of the chords, add this to your browser: http://www.looknohands.com/chordhouse/piano/

You might like to look up the circle of fifths too. It probably all sounds confusing, but the basics are not hard to grasp if you are willing to learn them. Most of it is pretty straightforward and the jargon actually confuses more than whats going on at a musical level.
 
^^^^ Thanks for the links man. I'll give those two sites a look. The way you explained it, theory sounds pretty simple. I guess I'm just overcomplicating it. I really want to get this theory part down though. I can learn how to play songs all day, but without theory...i feel like i'm worthless on the keys....even though i may be able to play unbreakable better than alicia keys..lol. But yea, I pretty much know the circle of fiths. As a matter of fact, that C#maj7 chords that I mentioned is the 1 chord in the circle of fiths run I just learned.

I heard someone mention on another message board(www.gospelkeyboard.com) about a book called "The Jazz Piano Book" and "The Jazz Theory Book" both by Mark Levine. Has anyone read these books? If so, whats the verdict on them...are they pretty good books. I'm doing my research on them but I would like someone's opinion. Thanks for the help! God Bless
 
When it comes to composing, theories are of no use. It's all dependant on the inner creative feel and the hearing skills. Music theory is good to be knowledgable though just to speak of.
 
Newbie_P said:
When it comes to composing, theories are of no use. It's all dependant on the inner creative feel and the hearing skills. Music theory is good to be knowledgable though just to speak of.
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Don't start that crap lol. Theory is invaluble when it comes to composing. There are a rare few people that have a ear for music and can compose well without training but for the rest of, using the tools that theory presents can definantly be very useful when it comes to chord progressions, melodys, and coming up wit full soundin beats.

Especially if you want a certain style like Blues and sh!t like that. I don't think you'll come up with the chords that fit the scale without knowing some theory at least.

And @ agapetraxx...theory does take some time to learn but it'll start making more and more sense. So yes you are probably overcomplicatin it but that comes with the territory. Its like learnin a new language. Once you start to understand sh!t, everything will start fallin into place. But it definantly takes a little time to grasp everything. Oh and feel free to ask me some questions because i'm satisfied with my grasp of it lol.
 
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SoulBoy said:
Don't start that crap lol. Theory is invaluble when it comes to composing. There are a rare few people that have a ear for music and can compose well without training but for the rest of, using the tools that theory presents can definantly be very useful when it comes to chord progressions, melodys, and coming up wit full soundin beats.

Especially if you want a certain style like Blues and sh!t like that. I don't think you'll come up with the chords that fit the scale without knowing some theory at least.

And @ agapetraxx...theory does take some time to learn but it'll start making more and more sense. So yes you are probably overcomplicatin it but that comes with the territory. Its like learnin a new language. Once you start to understand sh!t, everything will start fallin into place. But it definantly takes a little time to grasp everything. Oh and feel free to ask me some questions because i'm satisfied with my grasp of it lol.
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I'm glad to know that theories are useful for some people but to me they are useless because I can make the music that I want depending on my musical feel and ear. It always comes out as deep as I want it to be and as expressive. And says who learning scales and chords is complex? It's really easy and with wesbites like this www.musictheory.net it can't get any easier. But that's my personal opinion overall. I'm pretty happy with my compositions. Anyways thanks for offering your help.
 
very useful thing in understanding chords and progressions is "circle of fifths" and "circle of fourths"



in this picture they are both presented...


CircleofFifths.GIF
 
I like The Jazz Theory Book, by Mark Levine, I would say though it's probably beneficial if you can read music first, before you get the book, to get the best out of it as quickly as possible. Although it is incredibly comprehensive in it's coverage. Best £30 I've spent.
 
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