T
Triga
Guest
I have big problems playing melodies over chords. For example i have Gm7 Dm7 and Am7 layed down then get stuck for melodies. Any tips on what notes to play and how to figure it out? Thanks.
T
Triga
Guest
How do i figure out the scale of the song?
bandcoach
Zukatoku - Mod Scientist
Gm7 = G~Bb~D~F
Dm7 = D~F~A~C
Am7 = A~C~E~G
Progression suggest D natural minor (D Aeolian)
Scale choices are
Gm7 => G Dorian => G~A~Bb~C~D~E~F~G
Dm7 => D Aeolian => D~E~F~G~A~Bb~C~D
Am7 => A Phrygian => A~Bb~C~D~E~F~G~A
For each chord emphasise the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of the scale (the chord tones) as well as using the other notes to provide colour.
Dm7 = D~F~A~C
Am7 = A~C~E~G
Progression suggest D natural minor (D Aeolian)
Scale choices are
Gm7 => G Dorian => G~A~Bb~C~D~E~F~G
Dm7 => D Aeolian => D~E~F~G~A~Bb~C~D
Am7 => A Phrygian => A~Bb~C~D~E~F~G~A
For each chord emphasise the 1st, 3rd and 5th notes of the scale (the chord tones) as well as using the other notes to provide colour.
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Emmapeel9
Guest
Using different chords might make it easier. There are not many songs that use all three of these chords.
njm255
Active member
It's a 1-4-5 progession almost EVERY song has that in it somewhere and a lot of pop/hip-hop stuff is built around it.
T
Triga
Guest
So do i play one scale for all three chords? Or a scale for each chord like bandcoach has mentioned.
njm255
Active member
You can do either but it's easier to just use the D minor scale over all of it.
T
Triga
Guest
Thanks for the help. Now i just need to figure out the scale for every chord progression i play.
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Emmapeel9
Guest
So the fact that these are minor chords doesn't actually matter? It will just sound the same as if they were major chords?
This is one reason why I don't like the theoretical explaination of chord progressions. You can come up with ridiculous conclusions like the above.
It's important to hear how the progression sounds in practise. Music is sound after all; what you hear. If you do go the theoretical route and learn about things that way, it is still important to be able to listen to what is happening and not just read about numbers and structures. Learning to play an instrument along with reading about theory is a good way to do this.
EP
njm255
Active member
It does matter and it won't sound the same as major chords. I played the progression, that's how I knew what key it was in. The best way to learn theory for me was and is through application. I can read all day but until I hear an example in a song or sit down at the keyboard and play I usually don't understand completely.
bandcoach
Zukatoku - Mod Scientist
Actually, yes! At least major chords with a 6th, which is also the first inversion of the minor 7th. A very Tin-Pan-Alley approach to chords and harmonisation.
F6 (FACD) Bb6 (BbDFG) C6 (CEGA)
However, the above conclusion is only partly ridiculous, mostly facetious.
AFAIAC this is a Latin-Rock progression that has been adapted for for something else. I heard the progression in my internal hearing - I have been around long enough to recognise a progression visually and hear it in my mind accordingly.
My advice was partly theoretical, mostly based on experience - would it help to say Santana's version of Black Magic Woman? This where I am familiar with these chords and their uses. Also the improvisation of melodies using the scales suggested, all since 1978.
As for other aspects of melodic construction starting from chords is ok, but sometimes the melody has to dictate the chords as well.
neverenoughfunk
New member
good info here!!!
D natural minor of F major...
as far melodies go...
D minor penatonic scale (D,F,G,A,C)
F major penatonic scale (F,G,A,D,A)
F blues scale (F,Ab,Bb,B,C,Db)
F major blus scale (F,G,Ab,A,C,D)
C7 (C,D,E,F,G,A,Bb)
there are tons more but this is a good start...
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Emmapeel9
Guest
Minor 7th chords don't sound like major chords. What you are saying is quite silly and not very helpful.
The chords Am7, Dm7, and Gm7 do not feature together in many songs at all, let alone most of them as the original statement was saying. To say so is entirely ridiculous.
I think music theory needs to be rewritten for the modern age. At the moment, though, I think it should be learnt with caution.
EP
---------- Post added at 06:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ----------
This is very interesting.
I'm a very natural music person. I've been writing songs in my head since I was six. Most of my songs take about 20 minutes. I've written a few songs in my sleep too. Havent read any books or anything - just play around till it sounds right.
However, this doesn't neccessarily make me any better than someone who reads books all the time to learn. It depends on the music you come up with, not on how you made it.
The same goes for someone who might have a lot of degree's and qualifications in music. It still depends on what music you come up with. Qualifications don't mean much when writing music.
I'll try to keep in mind that not all people will think about things the same way. How things sound musically should be more important than the thought behind it though.
EP
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bandcoach
Zukatoku - Mod Scientist
No but they do sound like Major 6th chords. That was my point which you elected to ignore.
Again you appear to be talking about a limited set of music: Latin-American music is not afraid to use these three chords together and often do so. I am not knocking you for sticking to what you know, but don't make the mistake of taking what you know to be the extent of what can be (and is) done in other forms of music.
Modern music does not need a new approach to music theory; it needs to be addressed in terms of what it is and what it isn't. Most modern music is modal in character, not tonal. The rules change when you deal with modal music. I'm not talking about the church modes or the Greek modes which are very different in character and use. I'm talking about the use of harmonic progressions that do not obey the rules of tonal music, but rely instead on other forces to create cadences that provide movement and rest. These progressions in turn respond to or generate certain melodic directions.
EP: you have laid out now why you are hostile to music theory. Accept that others have a better grasp of it and are more able to explain its uses in interpreting existing music and guiding you where to go whilst creating new music.
Remember, theory is just that; an attempt to explain how music works at more than a superficial level. It may not resonate with some because they have never thought beyond the superficial but for others it is a beacon, showing the path others have walked and offering the adventurous possibilities of roads less traveled to those that are well worn.
njm255
Active member
Am7 Dm7 Gm7 played in that order is not a common progression BUT play it Gm7 Am7 Dm7 and it's a 1-4-5 in D minor.
Also, while I think comparing minor chords to major 6ths can be confusing for those just learning, they DO sound the same. A major 6th is a minor 7th inverted.
Lastly the thought behind music is, in my opinion, important. If I'm trying to create a certain mood, atmosphere, vibe, feeling, etc. knowing theory makes that MUCH easier. That's not to say a person can't create something without knowing theory, but I find it much easier to know and understand what scales and chords fit together to make certain sounds and I recommend that all musicians learn theory.
Also, while I think comparing minor chords to major 6ths can be confusing for those just learning, they DO sound the same. A major 6th is a minor 7th inverted.
Lastly the thought behind music is, in my opinion, important. If I'm trying to create a certain mood, atmosphere, vibe, feeling, etc. knowing theory makes that MUCH easier. That's not to say a person can't create something without knowing theory, but I find it much easier to know and understand what scales and chords fit together to make certain sounds and I recommend that all musicians learn theory.
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youngjboy
Guest
checking this out...
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Emmapeel9
Guest
Modern music means pretty much anything. There are no rules about what you should do. Theory hasn't kept up in a lot of areas and this needs to be addressed. The chord progression terminology is a good example.
People are free to learn however they want though and it is important to remember this. (I need to) Communicating between peoples idea's is important and theoretical terminology is not the only way.
To me, music theory is superficial; something to fall back on if you get stuck. Everyone gets stuck in some way though
This is a forum for people who want to learn about theory as well as composing. I'll leave the theory side to others to comment on, but composing is not theory. It is to some and that is good, but there are a lot of idea's about how to compose well which are non-theoretical and these should be respected.
Everyone wants to make good music.
EP
People are free to learn however they want though and it is important to remember this. (I need to) Communicating between peoples idea's is important and theoretical terminology is not the only way.
To me, music theory is superficial; something to fall back on if you get stuck. Everyone gets stuck in some way though
This is a forum for people who want to learn about theory as well as composing. I'll leave the theory side to others to comment on, but composing is not theory. It is to some and that is good, but there are a lot of idea's about how to compose well which are non-theoretical and these should be respected.
Everyone wants to make good music.
EP
neverenoughfunk
New member
Modern music means pretty much anything. There are no rules about what you should do. Theory hasn't kept up in a lot of areas and this needs to be addressed. The chord progression terminology is a good example.
People are free to learn however they want though and it is important to remember this. (I need to) Communicating between peoples idea's is important and theoretical terminology is not the only way.
To me, music theory is superficial; something to fall back on if you get stuck. Everyone gets stuck in some way though
This is a forum for people who want to learn about theory as well as composing. I'll leave the theory side to others to comment on, but composing is not theory. It is to some and that is good, but there are a lot of idea's about how to compose well which are non-theoretical and these should be respected.
Everyone wants to make good music.
EP
i agree 110%
you do not need music theory to compose...
what i find is that individuals that "shy" away from theory are the ones that has created their own "methodology" of composing music... there is nothing "wrong" with that either... but in "most" cases "limiting"...
the point i am making is that music theory has been tried, tested and works... period...
now, my question is "why re-invent the wheel?"
one could compose 100,000 songs with a I-IV-V progression with a C major pentatonic scale over it...
and be considered a composer...
i feel if you want to understand "how music works" then music theory is the answer... i feel "understanding how music works" makes for better compositions/songs...
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