house music theory

[hookedonharmonix]

realizing this is a production based forum i'm hoping some of you guys can help me anyways - i've been spinning house for a few years and have a working knowledge of beatmatching, phrasing, and harmonic mixing; i'm wondering if a musician could listen to a house track and tell me more about it than, "it's in C minor and 126 beats per minute". And if they could tell me more information about the track, could this information be usefully applied to mixing the tracks? i realize music is an art but learning about harmony has saved me countless hours of trial and error mixing, i'm just wondering if there is any more to the "science" that i'm missing that could take me even further. i've tried asking in other forums but most dj's HATE when you bring up harmony, like it's "cheating" to understand any music theory.

 

[neubonic]

its not cheating to understand music theory when djing. those dj's who think it is probably mix tracks together that are not in complimentary keys and let them play together for like 3 minutes with the different songs just clashing with each other (which seriously makes my brain want to explode, not to mention pull out a sniper rifle and end the mix right there).

 

[steelwheelking]

Nah I like when a DJ keys out records and mixes **** lovely like that. I know a few djs all they do is key out records more so then worry about beat matching and ****. Easiest way I know to find out what key a song is in is by play a instrument @ the same time a record is being played and which ever note clashes the least bang you got your key of the record. I personally dont know anyone that can listen to a song and know what key or pitch it is in . I know several top producers suchs AS LANCE JORDAN AND JOHN CREAMER and they both do what I suggested to figure out a key of a record if it was not given to them in advance. Hope this info helped you .

 

[hookedonharmonix]

i've got a solid handle on harmonic mixing, what i'm really wondering is what other types of science/theory could/should i be applying to my mixing? other than turntablism. thanks for the replies so far - any ideas??

 

[Rick J]

i'm wondering if a musician could listen to a house track and tell me more about it than, "it's in C minor and 126 beats per minute".

yeah, I now a lot of people who can say which pitch it is in... but haven't heard of anybody who can say how much bpm the track has... I spin also house tunes regurarly and can say around how much bpm it has... it's pretty easy (it's says on all bpm counters of the 500's and 600's, the best housemixer of all times!) but anyway... you can look it at this... disco house is always around 129/130 bpm, where as for example prog house fast is around 135bpm...

but as a dj you should now all you records perfectly... that means, pitch, pace, and how much bar each sequence of a track has... intro/outro in order to mix it nicely in, or the other sequences if you want to mix it in somewhere else...

anyway.. got of the topic a bit...
hope this helped...

rich

 

[hookedonharmonix]

what im wondering is if the science goes any FURTHER than key and bpm. what could a phd tell me about a track in more 'scientific' terms other than what key the track is in and how many bpms. all my tracks are keyed and i know the bpm's. the art of mixing goes deep, what im wondering is how deep the science goes. or is that it (key and bpm)?

 

[Rick J]

don't get it!

do want to know it what kind of effects are used, or what do you mean by scientific? length?

rich

 

[krushing]

what im wondering is how deep the science goes. or is that it (key and bpm)?

In a practical sense, that's pretty much it - I'm sure you could apply any music theory in mixing one way or the another, but then again when you're spinning house in a club, you want people to dance, not nodding in a corner thinking "oh my, what an intelligent tension he built there, Stravinsky-style".

Producing & composing is a different affair then.

 

[imikeyi]

a lot of house tracks arent in key, for example they use those horns or something... eh i dunno

ANYWAY if the keys of 2 songs are the same, say in G Aeolian then technically they will fit together. I don't think just saying 'G Major' will be enough though.. could be wrong but I dont think so.

 

[wonpeace]

tuning can go relly deep. not much records go at exactly a440.0000

you can tell from listening whether the drums are in key w/ the melody. if the drums breakdown and u want to use them alone you can tune them proper to another track. make sure the melody doesnt come back

also you can hear whether all individual elements of the track are in key w. eachother. hiphop eg: crooklyn dodgers crooklyn dodgers. that triangle/bell is corny max b/c it is not in key at all. you know that wont sound good mixed!

this goes same for the less obvious, esp if you want to crack 3 min mix off

 

[highkoo]

I think you may be looking for more science in it than actually exists. As for keys, I think that it should be mentioned that many many house records do not really have "a" key. Parts of them will, the melody will, the pads might, but a lot of tracks are pretty disjointed, as is often the style of the music. I know djs who oragnize their crates by key. That is nuts. Thats not what being a dj is about. A good dj should know that two records wont go together, even though he may not know anything about keys. They should also know when two records compliment each other, even though they are not in key. Thhe 'science' is such a small part of it.

But I will try to explain how my brain has come to 'organize' the beats. I dont remember keys or anything like that. I just know my records very very well. And part of choosing the mix is a concious thing that just takes a few moments to figure out. After that, Ive found that my head does some kind of sub concious indexing for me. Check this out, if Ive got a record that has a hit or a note, or lets say...an event, in the first part of the measure or bar, I TEND to choose tracks that have an event in the second part of the bar or whatever. See what I mean? Cuz when you mix, it often sounds better when you fill the holes that are in the track playing.... Likewise, if the track playing tends to have longer notes, longer loops, or a more stretched out structure, I will TEND to choose a track that is shorter, choppier, more loopy. Cuz that kind of contrast creates tension and change, which is good in a house set. Fukkin love it...

Woah, This got long. Hope it gives someone some ideas.

Peace.

 

[JonV]

I think you may be looking for more science in it than actually exists.

i agree, imo the science part of it mostly comes in the production of the track, not the mix in the club. good phrasing, key, levels, an stuff. not to mention the overall groove.

you could break every track down to it's individual sample and it would come out looking like a symphony score. but even in symphonic and classical pieces tempo, key, time signiture, rythem, etc. changes throughout the piece- personally i enjoy it...kind of that whole 'journey' concept. like the music starts in one place and ends in a completely different place but its still the same theme. ie: (classical) stravinsky's "firebird suite", (rock music) janes addiction "three days", (electro) any rabbit in the moon show.


like kushing said though, no one in the club is going to be sitting there analysing your conducting skills. Unless you're trying to make some mix tape or demo then all your tracks would have to be hand selected. also, personally im more interested in groovin to the tunes when im doing whatever it is im doing there.

...A Phd would more likely tell you about where the music came from and the sources it evolved from...the technicalities are the easy part. I think this whole 'mixing in key' thing is a little overrated..unless you're planning to whip out your sax and start improving over the track- its something to do in the bedroom when you're bored.

else i guess it just depends if you're trying to write a symphony on vinyl or just trying to blow up a club.

for info on keys a good site is:
http://www.teoria.com/reference/scales/05.htm

to get a quick bpm count on something look at your watch for 10 seconds while counting the beats on the tune then multiply it x6 (same way the doc checks your heart rate).