Help with few music theory questions, im sure they are very easy

[aLownsu]

Hey guys i was wondering if somebody would be able to help me out with a few questions in regards to music theory.

1) how many notes can i have inside a measure? would the amount of notes depend on what kind of note? 1, 1/2, 1/4 ,etc..
8
2) as a composer, lets say the first measure goes, 1/4note, 1/4note, 1/2restnote, 1/4note, 1/8note. ok so the question is do you choose the rest note to be based on your composition or is there a certain rule you must follow like if the previous note is 1/4 the restnote has to be 1/4 as well?

3) last question, when you hit the note on the keyboard, lets say its a whole note how long do you hold the key for? and if the note you're reading is 1/16 how long do you hold the key on that note?

i hope my questions are understandable, if not, please say so i will try my best to rephrase it. Thank for the help in advance!

 

[Professor John]

I'll try to explain this, but I suggest that you pick up a book on music theory.

1) This depends on the time signature which tells you how many beats are in a measure and what type of note is equal to one beat. The most common time signature is 4/4 which means there are 4 beats in a measure and a quarter note is one beat. So yes, the amount of notes depends on the length of the note you are playing. You can have one whole note, 2 half notes, 4 quarter notes, 8 1/8th notes, 16 16th notes, ect., all equal one measure in 4/4. Of course you can mix and match these for example 2 quarter notes and 4 1/8th notes.

2) There are no rules on rests, it is based off what you want to play.

3) This is all dependent on the tempo you are playing. If you are using a DAW there is usually a metronome option. Metronomes (usually) count out the quarter notes for you. So for a whole note you would press and hold the key on the first beat and let go when the fourth beat ends (not when the fourth click happens, but when the full quarter note ends after the fourth click) So for an eighth note, you want to time it so that you could fit two notes in one click.

If you have any more questions feel free to ask. I don't have any examples, so I feel like I'm not communicating the concepts in the clearest manner.

Professor John

 

[bandcoach]

Hey guys i was wondering if somebody would be able to help me out with a few questions in regards to music theory.

1) how many notes can i have inside a measure? would the amount of notes depend on what kind of note? 1, 1/2, 1/4 ,etc..
8

it depends on your time signature

4/4 means 4 quarter-notes per bar. it also means 2 half-notes per bar and 8 8ths per bar and 16 16ths per bar and a single whole-note per bar as well as many variations based on breaking the beat value (the 1/4 note) into divisions of 2 or 3 (triplets)

for the quarter-note/crotchet as beat the following is true

Name	Duration relative to the 1/4 note beat
Whole note/semi-breve	4
Half note/minim	2
Quarter note/crotchet	1
8th note/quaver	1/2
16th note/semi-quaver	1/4
32nd note/demi-semi-quaver	1/8
64th note/hemi-demi-semi-quaver	1/16

note that the American naming is based on the concept that a bar/measure is always 4/4, failing to account for 3/4 or 2/4 or compound time signatures such as 6/8 and 12/8, whereas the European/British naming avoids such conflicts

To the above table we can add the triplet values and the dotted and double dotted values (the double dot was Mozart's fathers second great contribution to music, the first being Mozart himself): these are ordered from largest duration to smallest duration:

	Duration relative to the 1/4 note beat as a
Name	Ratio	Whole number fraction	Decimal
Double dotted Whole note/semi-breve	7:1	7	7
Double dotted Half note/minim	7:2	3 1/2	3.50
Dotted Whole note/semi-breve	3:1	6	3
Whole note/semi-breve	4:1	4	4
Dotted Half note/minim	3:1	3	3
Triplet Whole note/semi-breve	8:3	2 2/3	2.67
Half note/minim	2:1	2	2
Double dotted Quarter note/crotchet	7:4	1 3/4	1.75
Dotted Quarter note/crotchet	3:2	1 1/2	1.50
Triplet Half note/minim	4:3	1 1/3	1.33
Quarter note/crotchet	1:1	1	1
Double dotted 8th note/quaver	7:8	7/8	0.88
Dotted 8th note/quaver	3:4	3/4	0.75
Triplet Quarter note/crotchet	2:3	2/3	0.67
8th note/quaver	1:2	1/2	0.50
Double dotted 16th note/semi-quaver	7:16	7/16	0.44
Dotted 16th note/semi-quaver	3:8	3/8	0.38
Triplet 8th note/quaver	1:3	1/3	0.33
16th note/semi-quaver	1:4	1/4	0.25
Double dotted 32nd note/demi-semi-quaver	7:32	7/32	0.22
Dotted 32nd note/demi-semi-quaver	3:16	3/16	0.19
Triplet 16th note/semi-quaver	1:6	1/6	0.17
32nd note/demi-semi-quaver	1:8	1/8	0.13
Double dotted 64th note/hemi-demi-semi-quaver	7:64	7/64	0.11
Dotted 64th note/hemi-demi-semi-quaver	3:32	3/32	0.09
Triplet 32nd note/demi-semi-quaver	1:12	1/12	0.08
64th note/hemi-demi-semi-quaver	1:16	1/16	0.06
Triplet 64th note/hemi-demi-semi-quaver	1:24	1/24	0.04

2) as a composer, lets say the first measure goes, 1/4note, 1/4note, 1/2restnote, 1/4note, 1/8note. ok so the question is do you choose the rest note to be based on your composition or is there a certain rule you must follow like if the previous note is 1/4 the restnote has to be 1/4 as well?

that 1st measure would be wrong if the time signature were 4/4, however in 11/8 it is a perfectly legal construction for a single bar

as for the value of the rest that is a compositional decision not driven by such things as what was the last duration or what is the next duration, but rather how much gold do I want (silence is golden, right?)

3) last question, when you hit the note on the keyboard, lets say its a whole note how long do you hold the key for? and if the note you're reading is 1/16 how long do you hold the key on that note?

that is down to the tempo you have set - how many beats per minute determines the relative time for each duration value.

Some typical tempos and the relative timing of the 1/4, 8th and 16th note are shown below

	Length in secs for a
Tempo (bpm)	1/4 note	8th	16th
120	0.5	0.25	0.125
96	0.625	0.3125	0.15625
90	0.66	0.33	0.16
84	0.714	0.357	0.178
72	0.83	0.417	0.208
60	1.0	0.5	0.25

as you can see the time to hold is very short for a sixteenth being between 1/4" and 1/8" over the range 60bpm to 120bpm.

That said, it is about learning how to divide the beat into smaller chunks that makes the process of learning an instrument initially challenging - I personally prefer to e precursor series of sessions based solely in rhythmic reading to better prepare students for later challenges.

 

[Professor John]

note that the American naming is based on the concept that a bar/measure is always 4/4, failing to account for 3/4 or 2/4 or compound time signatures such as 6/8 and 12/8, whereas the European/British naming avoids such conflicts

Can you clarify yourself on this? I've never heard of a difference between American/European time signatures. I assumed time signatures were the same around the world because of how long written music has been around.

Thanks,

Professor John

 

[bandcoach]

note that the American naming is based on the concept that a bar/measure is always 4/4, failing to account for 3/4 or 2/4 or compound time signatures such as 6/8 and 12/8, whereas the European/British naming avoids such conflicts

Can you clarify yourself on this? I've never heard of a difference between American/European time signatures. I assumed time signatures were the same around the world because of how long written music has been around.

Thanks,

Professor John

you have misread what was written: it is about note naming not time signatures

- i.e. American note names indicate how much of a 4/4 bar is occupied by the specific duration: you cannot have a whole note in a single bar of 3/4 as the bar is 3 quarter-note beats long and the whole-note is equal to 4 quarter-notes

- so the American note naming convention is at odds with the reality of time signatures

- European note names, on the other hand, do not directly assert their durational status in terms of bars or beat values and so do not add to some of the confusion that arises when trying to write music (as was evidenced by the second question the op asked: he gave a set of durations that when combined were too large for a single bar - a common misconception in early learning)

language use
bar and measure are interchangeable - they mean the same thing: a grouping of a number of a nominated beat value

 

[Professor John]

Very interesting Bandcoach. I had no idea there was this difference. I would be confused as hell in Europe! haha

Professor John

 

[bandcoach]

Very interesting Bandcoach. I had no idea there was this difference. I would be confused as hell in Europe! haha

Professor John

you miss the point entirely -

naming a duration has a single purpose: to distinguish it from all other durations: to make it unique. To overload the meaning of the duration by including how it fills a 4/4 bar can cause unwanted confusion.

the word fragments I used in the above tables, hemi, demi, semi, all mean "half-of-a", so, when strung together in the name hemi-demi-semi-quaver they come out as half-of-a-half-of-a-half-of-a-quaver - it is not nearly as eloquent or instructive as a 64th, but it is also not tied to a specific time signature

to recap

The American based naming system uses the following cardinal rule: all durations are related to the length of a note that fills a whole 4/4 (or 2/2) bar as a fraction of that whole note:

Lines joining more than 1 of these	-	-	-	1	2	3	4	5	6	7
American name as words	whole	half	quarter	eighth	sixteenth	thirty-second	sixty-fourth	one-hundred-and-twenty-eighth	two-hundred-and-fifty-sixth	five-hundred-and-twelfth
as fractions	1	1/2	1/4	1/8	1/16	1/32	1/64	1/128	1/256	1/512
as fractions alternate	1	1/2	1/4	8th	16th	32nd	64th	128th	256th	512th
European names	Semi-breve	Minim	Crotchet	Quaver	Semi-Quaver	Demi-Semi-Quaver	Hemi-Demi-Semi-Quaver	Semi-Hemi-Demi-Semi-Quaver	Demi-Semi-Hemi-Demi-Semi-Quaver	Hemi-Demi-Semi-Hemi-Demi-Semi-Quaver

Whilst the European names may seem confusing at first, they have a beauty and uniqueness that is not burdened with a relationship to a single time signature

 

[Professor John]

you miss the point entirely -

naming a duration has a single purpose: to distinguish it from all other durations: to make it unique. To overload the meaning of the duration by including how it fills a 4/4 bar can cause unwanted confusion.

the word fragments I used in the above tables, hemi, demi, semi, all mean half-of-a so when strung together int eh name hemi-demi-semi-quaver they come out as half-of-a-half-of-a-half-of-a-quaver - it is not nearly as eloquent or instructive as a 64th, but it is also not tied to a specific time signature

to recap

The American based naming system uses the following cardinal rule: all durations are related to the length of a note that fills a whole 4/4 (or 2/2) bar as a fraction of that whole note:

Lines joining more than 1 of these	-	-	-	1	2	3	4	5	6	7
American name as words	whole	half	quarter	eighth	sixteenth	thirty-second	sixty-fourth	one-hundred-and-twenty-eighth	two-hundred-and-fifty-sixth	five-hundred-and-twelfth
as fractions	1	1/2	1/4	1/8	1/16	1/32	1/64	1/128	1/256	1/512
as fractions alternate	1	1/2	1/4	8th	16th	32nd	64th	128th	256th	512th
European names	Semi-breve	Minim	Crotchet	Quaver	Semi-Quaver	Demi-Semi-Quaver	Hemi-Demi-Semi-Quaver	Semi-Hemi-Demi-Semi-Quaver	Demi-Semi-Hemi-Demi-Semi-Quaver	Hemi-Demi-Semi-Hemi-Demi-Semi-Quaver

Whilst the European names may seem confusing at first, they have a beauty and uniqueness that is not burdened with a relationship to a single time signature

I got it the first time. I just never even realized there was this difference, and I grew up learning the notes relations with 4/4 time signature. It is weird to me looking at it the other way

---------- Post added at 01:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:30 PM ----------

you miss the point entirely -

naming a duration has a single purpose: to distinguish it from all other durations: to make it unique. To overload the meaning of the duration by including how it fills a 4/4 bar can cause unwanted confusion.

the word fragments I used in the above tables, hemi, demi, semi, all mean half-of-a so when strung together int eh name hemi-demi-semi-quaver they come out as half-of-a-half-of-a-half-of-a-quaver - it is not nearly as eloquent or instructive as a 64th, but it is also not tied to a specific time signature

to recap

The American based naming system uses the following cardinal rule: all durations are related to the length of a note that fills a whole 4/4 (or 2/2) bar as a fraction of that whole note:

Lines joining more than 1 of these	-	-	-	1	2	3	4	5	6	7
American name as words	whole	half	quarter	eighth	sixteenth	thirty-second	sixty-fourth	one-hundred-and-twenty-eighth	two-hundred-and-fifty-sixth	five-hundred-and-twelfth
as fractions	1	1/2	1/4	1/8	1/16	1/32	1/64	1/128	1/256	1/512
as fractions alternate	1	1/2	1/4	8th	16th	32nd	64th	128th	256th	512th
European names	Semi-breve	Minim	Crotchet	Quaver	Semi-Quaver	Demi-Semi-Quaver	Hemi-Demi-Semi-Quaver	Semi-Hemi-Demi-Semi-Quaver	Demi-Semi-Hemi-Demi-Semi-Quaver	Hemi-Demi-Semi-Hemi-Demi-Semi-Quaver

Whilst the European names may seem confusing at first, they have a beauty and uniqueness that is not burdened with a relationship to a single time signature

I got it the first time. I just never even realized there was this difference, and I grew up learning the notes relations with 4/4 time signature. It is just weird to me looking at it the other way

 

[aLownsu]

Professor John

Thank You very much for taking the time to review and reply back to my thread, your help is appreciated and helpful, I am glad I signed up on this forum, this will be a great journey on becoming the greatest music producer/pianist that I can be! I am not sure how much of help I could be since I am a rookie in training, but if you have any questions or something I can help with, please!

---------- Post added at 04:10 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:08 PM ----------

Dear Bandcoach

Thank You very much for taking the time to review and reply back to my thread, your help is appreciated and helpful, I am glad I signed up on this forum, this will be a great journey on becoming the greatest music producer/pianist that I can be! I am not sure how much of help I could be since I am a rookie in training, but if you have any questions or something I can help with, please!