guitar on a piano midi? 6 strings

RhyanCrisis

New member
ok i posted this up before.. but the question in a way that doesn't get my message across..but my question is.....
What six notes on a piano (midi) would be the same as the 6 strings on a guitar????

would i be all 5 black keys? or is it c,d,e,f,g,a?.. or how does that work.... i know a guitar is starts on e.. and piano starts on c... etc... can anyone break this down for me?
 
guitarNotes.png


Chords are played across the strings so you cannot have notes from the same string but you can have notes from adjacent strings.

All notes sound one octave lower

Base pitches and MIDI NN for each string are:

E3~64
B2~59
G2~55
D2~50
A1~45
E1~40
 
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From low to high (in pitch) it goes E,A,D,G,B,E, with a TWO octave difference between the first and second E.

But that's just standard tuning, there's actually many different ways to tune a guitar. By tightening and loosening the strings, you can adjust them to be whatever note you want them to be by default (until they are so tight they break or so loose that they don't resonate). Heavy metal (and I heard blues as well) uses different tuning all the time.
 
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From low to high (in pitch) it goes E,A,D,G,B,E, with one octave difference between the first and second E.

But that's just standard tuning, there's actually many different ways to tune a guitar. By tightening and loosening the strings, you can adjust them to be whatever note you want them to be by default (until they are so tight they break or so loose that they don't resonate). Heavy metal (and I heard blues as well) uses different tuning all the time.

Small correction: it's a difference of two octaves between the low and high E strings
 
i know the guitars notes are E,A,D,G,B,E. are you saying that those would be the same as piano A, D, G etc so i would play E,A,D,G,B,E on a piano??... Or... does that mean i play it from E-E... and any note between the two octaves i can play? (of course talking about me playing a sampled guitar on a midi keyboard piano)

---------- Post added at 12:41 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:36 PM ----------

ok i think this answers my question, but can you further explain the number and letters?... would E3 be the third octave E??... and whats the 64 represent? frequency?
 
I don't believe he's talking about frequency but rather Midi Note Numbers; a standard system for numbering/labeling each midi note. But Bandcoach, I'm a little confused. The numbers you listed don't match what I looked up on this site:

MIDI Note Numbers

Can you explain this?

GuitarNotes.jpg

Anyway, these are the notes you'd play on midi, where E2 is the third octave up from the bottom.

---------- Post added at 11:10 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:46 AM ----------

On an 88 key keyboard, some people start naming the octave starting with 1 and others start with 0. So it's not completely standardized yet. The numbers next to the note increase each time you reach the note "C".

Anyway, the (approximate) frequencies, in hertz, are as follows.

E2-82.407
A2-110
D3-146.832
G3-195.998
B3-246.942
E4-329.628

When you increase a note by an octave, it's frequency doubles. The second E is two octaves up from the first, so it's frequency is four times greater.

Also, this also doesn't seem to be completely standardized yet, but there are about 20 frets on a guitar. This means that each string is capable of creating notes 20 semitones higher than its starting note (almost, but not quite 2 octaves).

---------- Post added at 11:23 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:10 AM ----------

Actually, never mind Bandcoach, I just realized what the problem was. It was due to the same non-standardized method of naming octaves that I just mentioned in my last post lol. They were referring to middle C as C4 and you were referring to it as C3.
 
I don't believe he's talking about frequency but rather Midi Note Numbers; a standard system for numbering/labeling each midi note. But Bandcoach, I'm a little confused. The numbers you listed don't match what I looked up on this site:

MIDI Note Numbers

Can you explain this?

GuitarNotes.jpg

The MIDI standard numbers notes and octaves as I have used them i.e. Middle C is C3 is MIDI note Number 60, so this person has not used a non standard naming method, rather they have taken the written form of guitar notation which is an octave higher than sounding and then failed to lower the notes by one octave once they have entered them, relying instead on the ability in some DAWs to transpose the entire track/channel by any amount to compensate for the notation octave they use.

This issue is further compounded by the direct miscasting of octaves in some sample based libraries, where they render the samples in the transposed notation key rather than at actual pitch, confusion abounds as a result.

Actually, never mind Bandcoach, I just realized what the problem was. It was due to the same non-standardized method of naming octaves that I just mentioned in my last post lol. They were referring to middle C as C4 and you were referring to it as C3.

I did mind because it is misinformation that makes this business (the music business) so hard for people to cope with.


As for guitar frets:
Nylon string: Standardised at 19 frets since the early 1800's
Stratocaster/Telecaster: standardised at 22 frets since inception (1952/54)
Les Paul/SG/ES: standardised at 21 frets since inception (1947/??)
Since the mid-80's guitarists have demanded and been given guitars with 24 frets, although bass players by default get these more often even on low-end instruments.
 
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Sorry, Bandcoach, I didn't have a question about the midi editor. My question was why you're MIDI NN's didn't match the ISO standard for MIDI NN's. But then I figured it out. No 'misinformation', just a little confusion because you were using a different standard. The notes on the midi editor are in Cubase and are the correct starting notes on a standard tuned guitar. As far as the strings go, you are agreed on the frequencies I've provided, correct? Because I think referring to them as the actual frequencies they are might clear up a little of the confusion.

---------- Post added at 12:46 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:40 PM ----------

Like I said, I later realized you were referring to middle C as C3 and that they were referring to it as C4. I looked up a lot of graphs and they seem to vary on which system they use.

However, if you're referring to middle C as C3, I think you're list of notes for the guitar is an octave too low. With middle C being C3, the guitar would start on E2; not E1.

---------- Post added at 12:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:46 PM ----------

To clarify for the OP, the lowest note on the guitar (standardly tuned) is first E to the left of middle C.
 
They say a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. You again epitomise this saying to the letter.

The low E on the guitar is tuned to the E at the bottom of the bass clef - this is not the one immediately to the left of middle C, but the one an octave below it. If it were as you claim then middle C would be tuned to ca. 131Hz, rather than ca 263Hz. This note is E1 ca. 82Hz.

When writing for the guitar it is written an octave above it's sounding pitch. I.E. the lowest note is written as E2 but sounds as E1, so no error unless you are trying to play everything an octave higher.

Sorry, Bandcoach, I didn't have a question about the midi editor.

I was not commenting on the editor as such - I was commenting on the use of note numbers and octaves that do not correspond to the pitch of the guitar as they sound - these notes have been input for the written range not the sounding range. When playing on the piano a pianist will want to play notes from the sounding range not the written range.

My question was why you're MIDI NN's didn't match the ISO standard for MIDI NN's. But then I figured it out. No 'misinformation', just a little confusion because you were using a different standard. The notes on the midi editor are in Cubase and are the correct starting notes on a standard tuned guitar.

Please point me to the ISO standard for MIDI note numbers - afaik it does not exist. There is the MIDI Manufacturers Association Standard, which is the MIDI Standard that has been in use since 1982. It sounds like you are actually referring to DIN Octave numbers not MIDI note numbers, but even then, Cubase (in spite of being German in origin) does not use these Octave numbers, adhering instead to the MIDI standard.

As far as the strings go, you are agreed on the frequencies I've provided, correct? Because I think referring to them as the actual frequencies they are might clear up a little of the confusion.

As you can read above no disagreement about individual freqs for strings.

Like I said, I later realized you were referring to middle C as C3 and that they were referring to it as C4. I looked up a lot of graphs and they seem to vary on which system they use.

However, if you're referring to middle C as C3, I think you're list of notes for the guitar is an octave too low. With middle C being C3, the guitar would start on E2; not E1.

See above, this is impossible as the pitch of middle C would be dropped an octave - Middle C on the Guitar is the first fret on the B string, 5th fret on the G string, 10th fret on the D string, 15th fret on the A string and 20th fret on the Low E string, i.e. it is more than octave above the Low E rather than less than the single octave you are asserting.

To clarify for the OP, the lowest note on the guitar (standardly tuned) is first E to the left of middle C.

You clarify nothing here, only misinform with your incomplete grasp of notation for guitar.

To further clarify and put this to rest: Several Guitar chords on each of A, B, C, D, E, F and G. The guitar is shown at notation octave, but played back at sounding octave; the piano is at notation and sounding octave.

A
[mp3]http://www.bandcoach.org/fp/audio/GCFP-A.mp3[/mp3]

GCFP-A.png


B
[mp3]http://www.bandcoach.org/fp/audio/GCFP-B.mp3[/mp3]

GCFP-B.png


C
[mp3]http://www.bandcoach.org/fp/audio/GCFP-C.mp3[/mp3]

GCFP-C.png


D
[mp3]http://www.bandcoach.org/fp/audio/GCFP-D.mp3[/mp3]

GCFP-D.png


E
[mp3]http://www.bandcoach.org/fp/audio/GCFP-E.mp3[/mp3]

GCFP-E.png


F
[mp3]http://www.bandcoach.org/fp/audio/GCFP-F.mp3[/mp3]

GCFP-F.png


G
[mp3]http://www.bandcoach.org/fp/audio/GCFP-G.mp3[/mp3]

GCFP-G.png


I leave the flat/sharp naming notes to you to sort out.
 
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I think I know what the problem is. I was double checking my answers by playing guitar notes in different VSTs, and realized this: Depending on your vst and preset, the same key on the keyboard can play a note in a completely different octave. It would seem that the VST makers haven't decided on a standard to use either. So on an actual piano, the starting note would be the SECOND E to the left of middle C. However, I was playing Spicy Guitar which has each key produce a note an octave up from a piano. I played around with some of Cubase's synths too, and a lot of the time it was the same as with Spicy Guitar; sometimes it wasn't though. I thought the link I gave earlier was ISO, but I didn't really double check. If ISO hasn't created a standard for midi NN's, they really need to. Then maybe we wouldn't have all this miscommunication.

To the OP, despite all the different namings, we obviously can all agree on this:

E2-82.407
A2-110
D3-146.832
G3-195.998
B3-246.942
E4-329.628

You can usually just tell by ear if you are in the right octave, but if you are in doubt, you can put a graphic EQ like parametric EQ2 on your track to see the frequencies your playing.
 
I think I know what the problem is. I was double checking my answers by playing guitar notes in different VSTs, and realized this: Depending on your vst and preset, the same key on the keyboard can play a note in a completely different octave. It would seem that the VST makers haven't decided on a standard to use either.

My earlier post explained this. Some VSTi's are prepared to the notation standard which at one level makes a lot of sense - if you are transcribing guitar music or preparing music for a guitarist to play maybe you don't want to muck around with setting the track to the correct playback octave.

Others prepare their VSTi's to the sounding standard, giving composers/arrangers enough credit to know the difference between sounding octave and notation octave.

They are both standards: but makers do not always identify which standard they use.

So on an actual piano, the starting note would be the SECOND E to the left of middle C. However, I was playing Spicy Guitar which has each key produce a note an octave up from a piano. I played around with some of Cubase's synths too, and a lot of the time it was the same as with Spicy Guitar; sometimes it wasn't though.


See my response above this quote, it explains it thoroughly and places your results into the two equally acceptable standards.

I thought the link I gave earlier was ISO, but I didn't really double check. If ISO hasn't created a standard for midi NN's, they really need to. Then maybe we wouldn't have all this miscommunication.

How ep9 can you sound like? Your link was to Tom Scarf, who has a good website, but it is not a first-hand proof of your claim, merely a 3rd or 4th party repeating something without a verifiable link to the source. The ISO has no place in administering or determining the MIDI standard, as it is a production standard prepared by manufacturers for the use of manufacturers and software developers; i.e. it has no universal place in the world but is limited to a very small niche group of producers of physical and software goods.

This page, Highly Liquid: Support / Docs: Library: MIDI Note Numbers, notes that "Octave numbering is not standardized. Therefore, "C4" on one device may correspond to "C5" on another."

My own use of C3 for nn60 stems from years of research and application. I stand by my usage as it better represents the octave structures overall and is yet to be shown to be a poor "standard" to use in comparison to others. It is also supported by this page, http://www.somascape.org/midi/help/notes.html. I realise that some may suggest the confusion arises from the hexadecimal representation of middle c as 3c, but this is not the origin of my naming structure nor of the one on the given page.

This page, http://www.midimountain.com/midi/midi_note_numbers.html, shows the octaves starting at 0 and moving through to 10, a very mathematical approach as note 0 is the first note in octave 0.

This page, http://tonalsoft.com/pub/news/pitch-bend.aspx, is even stranger, in that it numbers the octave that middle c starts as octave 0 and numbers the other as positive or negative octaves in respect of middle c.

To the OP, despite all the different namings, we obviously can all agree on this:

E2-82.407
A2-110
D3-146.832
G3-195.998
B3-246.942
E4-329.628

You can usually just tell by ear if you are in the right octave, but if you are in doubt, you can put a graphic EQ like parametric EQ2 on your track to see the frequencies your playing.

Perhaps, or they could just use the guide to chords I provided above.
 
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ISO doesn't have any control over anyone at all, bandcoach. Or do they in Australia??? XD People just choose to use their standards because it makes things a lot easier. If you have people using several different standards (and not even naming their standards), it's like not having a standard in the first place.
 
Actually if you want to do business with certain companies you need to adhere to ISO standards in your manufacturing process or in your design process or anywhere else for that matter.

Even the American Standards Institute incorporates ISO standards as their basis these days.

Australia, like many other countries, has its own standards organisation (ASA) which does it work based on the ISO standards and then fine tune it for Australian conditions and legislation.

If you wish to have your product reach market place, you may find that you have to meet certain standards as a condition of approval to wholesale and/or retail these include safety standards, RoHS, electrical wiring standards, etc.

The real issue here is that the notes are as given in the original chart I posted, and the naming of MIDI note numbers, in terms of octave placement, is variable.

My second set of charts demonstrate conclusively the relationship between guitar notation and piano notation, showing the one to one mapping that is required to do the task that rhyan asked about, play guitar chords on his piano - he is at least interested in his music sounding realistic that he asked a straightforward question to which he was given three excellent answers:

  1. guitarNotes.png
    Base pitches and MIDI NN for each string are: E3~64, B2~59, G2~55, D2~50, A1~45, E1~40​
  2. OP -download a chord chart somewhere
  3. Several Guitar chords on each of A, B, C, D, E, F and G. The guitar is shown at notation octave, but played back at sounding octave; the piano is at notation and sounding octave.

    A
    [mp3]http://www.bandcoach.org/fp/audio/GCFP-A.mp3[/mp3]

    GCFP-A.png


    B
    [mp3]http://www.bandcoach.org/fp/audio/GCFP-B.mp3[/mp3]

    GCFP-B.png


    C
    [mp3]http://www.bandcoach.org/fp/audio/GCFP-C.mp3[/mp3]

    GCFP-C.png


    D
    [mp3]http://www.bandcoach.org/fp/audio/GCFP-D.mp3[/mp3]

    GCFP-D.png


    E
    [mp3]http://www.bandcoach.org/fp/audio/GCFP-E.mp3[/mp3]

    GCFP-E.png


    F
    [mp3]http://www.bandcoach.org/fp/audio/GCFP-F.mp3[/mp3]

    GCFP-F.png


    G
    [mp3]http://www.bandcoach.org/fp/audio/GCFP-G.mp3[/mp3]

    GCFP-G.png


    I leave the flat/sharp naming notes to you to sort out.
and one partially great answer (the relevant part is quoted with trimming to 2 decimal places),
Anyway, the (approximate) frequencies, in hertz, are as follows.
E2-82.40; A2-110.00; D3-146.83; G3-195.99; B3-246.94; E4-329.62

Final evidence, on the Cubase front, which is my main notation and has been since 1998, before which I used eMagic Notator Logic on an Atari and Steinberg Pro24 also on Atari (these also used the same "standard" for naming notes and octaves):

GCFP-E1-40Pno.png

GCFP-E1-40Gtr.png


both the selected notes are the same note and both show E1/40 in the information bar above as the note that is highlighted.
 
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Right. There are many reasons to follow the ISO standard, but no one it's not like people are going around with guns telling you you have to use the ISO standard. Using a standard is self-motivating, because (as far as companies/manufacturers go) if everyone starts using one standard and you don't use it, you're going to lose a ton, if not all, sales. It's not like if I go make my own CD image format that I'm going to jail or going to be fined or whatever XD. But maybe I'm wrong. Maybe in Australia they really do go around at gun point forcing everyone to adhere to ISO???? lol
 
I have just realised where some further confusion may be coming from.

It is standard practice when teaching and talking about guitar to number the strings from 1 down to 6 highest pitch to lowest pitch. The first chart I posted uses this convention E1, B2, G3, D4, A5, E6 meaning E 1st string, B 2nd string, G 3rd string, D 4th string, A 5th string and E 6th string. Further these numbers are usually found within a circle to distinguish them from octave or other indications that also use numbers when notating guitar music for performance or teaching.

I have corrected the chart and uploaded the new version with explanatory text
 
I thought you were trying to make it from the perspective of someone looking down at the strings as they're playing lol.

---------- Post added 07-19-2011 at 12:39 PM ---------- Previous post was 07-16-2011 at 06:09 PM ----------

And if you want to play some basic guitar chords, here's what they would look like in MIDI also.

GuitarChordsinMIDI.jpg
 
Nope, that's a piano roll, MIDI is totally different different (it's all 1's and 0's, arranged into long strings of bytes).

I would also add that you laid them out is piano style not guitar style, some of those chords cannot be played on a guitar with only four fingers and possibly a thumb

------EDIT--------
The notes highlighted in green are just playable. the notes highlighted in red should not be used in ordinary playing as they are either unreachable or have the chord in second inversion mostly, meaning that when we hear it, we are expecting the chord to move to a finish. The note added in yellow is a natural continuation.

rf.png

------EDIT--------

A MIDI text version file would look something like this:

MFile 1 4 96
MTrk
0 TimeSig 4/4 24 8
0 Tempo 500000
384 Meta TrkEnd
TrkEnd
MTrk
0 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
23 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
24 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
47 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
48 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
71 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
72 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
95 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
96 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
119 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
120 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
143 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
144 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
167 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
168 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
191 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
192 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
215 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
216 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
239 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
240 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
263 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
264 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
287 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
288 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
311 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
312 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
335 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
336 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
359 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
360 on ch=10 n=42 v=84
383 off ch=10 n=42 v=0
384 Meta TrkEnd
TrkEnd
MTrk
72 on ch=10 n=40 v=84
95 off ch=10 n=40 v=0
168 on ch=10 n=40 v=84
191 off ch=10 n=40 v=0
264 on ch=10 n=40 v=84
287 off ch=10 n=40 v=0
360 on ch=10 n=40 v=84
383 off ch=10 n=40 v=0
384 Meta TrkEnd
TrkEnd
MTrk
72 on ch=10 n=36 v=84
95 off ch=10 n=36 v=0
168 on ch=10 n=36 v=84
191 off ch=10 n=36 v=0
264 on ch=10 n=36 v=84
287 off ch=10 n=36 v=0
360 on ch=10 n=36 v=84
383 off ch=10 n=36 v=0
384 Meta TrkEnd
TrkEnd


That's stuff for a drum track but you get the point, I hope!
 
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