Finding the perfect Kick!

J

Jupiter

Guest
Hi All,
need some help on my kicks,
I have used software compressors and EQ's you name it!
Im beggining to think it could be the samples Im using.
where can I find a nice clean Kick to start of for a dance track, seems like all the kicks Im downlaoding are very noizy and poor quality.
 
Yo Jupiter
You can use a lot of things to sample nice and clean sounds.

First of all, there are a lot of sample CD's that you can buy. I have several of these CD's and they contain more than 1550 sound per Cd.
But nicer (but more time consuming) is to make the sounds yourself. example: You know someone with a Jembe, drum or a (drum)synth and you sample the sounds. Then you compress the sound (to make it fatter) and play it through audio or through midi!

Hope this helps! :cool:

C'ya!
JD ;)
www.JDMusc.info
 
most sampled kicks are already compressed, so compressing them more will tend to flatten them rather than fatten them.

i'm starting to think that with kicks, layering is the way to go. for example, layer something with a bright attack over something else with a fat low resonance to get a full and present kick.

also, make sure your bassline and kick drum aren't competing for frequencies or headroom. you can tell this is happening when your kick sounds wicked by itself but seems to fade out when you bring in the rest of the track.
 
best way to do kicks is doing them in a synth you know well. like for instance the subtractor in reason. instant scuplting/layering possibilites.. also you can get them in the right pitch easily..
 
how about finding a decent sounding, noise free kick, and then reprocessing it through your favorite software-should it be Sound Forge or FL.

This is what I do:
i find a kick and load it in FL. I play with the knobs until the kick sounds good enough for my criteria.
I could either put a different note on it, or add some reverb or shorten it, or amplifying it.

any of you guys agree with my technique?
post your techniques too.
 
Dance Mega Drumkits..

DanceMegaDrumkits.gif


1500 bass drums.. should find atleast a couple of nice ones there.

See www.bestservice.de
 
Last edited:
Jupiter said:
Hi All,
need some help on my kicks,
I have used software compressors and EQ's you name it!
Im beggining to think it could be the samples Im using.
where can I find a nice clean Kick to start of for a dance track, seems like all the kicks Im downlaoding are very noizy and poor quality.

Hi, you may find some good kicks here:
(in the Electronic Drums\Percussion section)

http://home.no.net/okval/samples-drums.htm

I've discovered that the key to getting great sounding kicks is not compressing, but EQ.


Vic20
 
Celltrip said:
Dance Mega Drumkits..

DanceMegaDrumkits.gif


1500 bass drums.. should find atleast a couple of nice ones there.

See www.bestservice.de

1500 bass drums and only couple of nice ones!!! WTF!
and what do you mean by nice ones?
what kind of kick/kick base fits your description for "NICE?"
 
Hi,

New to the forum.

In response to the question, I have yet to use a kickdrum sample that I am 100 % happy with in its original source.

Personally, I opt to compress the **** out of a standard 909 kick, but use an eq after the comp in the chain.

You need a good quality sample to begin with if you are going to compress it heavily, as the compression will only bring any unwanted noise into the equation.

As I said, I use extreme settings, ie: A high ratio, short attack, medium release. Initially, the sound will be very clicky and probably 'pop' the mix, hence the importance of adding an eq directly after it.

You need to pull down those clicky frequencies and also cut a few db's at around 150-250 hz. This will lower the boxy sound which can be associated with a poor kickdrum. Also try increasing the compressors attack, this has the effect of letting more bottom end through and can really help to add punch to the sound ( also good for bass )

It is more experimentation than technique IMO, but I often start out like this and vary the compressors settings to suit.

You can also get interesting harmonics in a standard 909 style kick, by adding an eq before the compressor to, esp one with a narrow Q width. The exaggerated boost will make the compressor more frequency responsive and generate the high frequency content needed sometimes to help a kickdrum cut through a dense mix.

Again, this is quite extreme and will need another eq after the comp to control and shape your overall sound.

Try rolling off bass frequencies at 40hz and below and cut 1 or 2 db's where it sounds boomy/boxy, then compress it. Then eq the sound directly after the compressor, this is the best method I have found.

Also always isolate the kickdrum and make any processing between it and the mixer channel strip.
 
robomarket said:


1500 bass drums and only couple of nice ones!!! WTF!
and what do you mean by nice ones?
what kind of kick/kick base fits your description for "NICE?"

LOL!!

I have that CD and it really sucks...
It may be good for cheesy Eurodance but you will not find the really punchy and powerful bassdums there. I've talked to a few people in the production business and they all say that only a few samples on every sample CD is relly "good".... Well I don't know what they mean by "good", but I think I understand after purchasing some sample CD's myself. I don't get that "wow" feeling after trying some samples, I just browse thru the collection wondering...where the f*u*c*k are the nice samples....?

One guy I know has been collecting samples for a couple of years now, and he told me he has 250 sample CD's but only 1% is worth collecting....the rest is b*u*l*l*s*h*i*t...

That is really not good news for beginners like me.....I have only 3 Sample CD's......:/

I think a part of the sample business is kind of corrupt, they charge up to $100 for a CD and only a few samples out uf several hundred are useful...that really s*u*c*k*s....!

One sample CD provider I purchased from actually rip off bass drums from popular trance/dance CD's and sell them....lol!


Vic20
 
robomarket said:


1500 bass drums and only couple of nice ones!!! WTF!
and what do you mean by nice ones?
what kind of kick/kick base fits your description for "NICE?"

I'm only throwing in some options that you might want to look at. I don't have that sample CD so I don't know what the samples are like on that CD. But like every sample cd, only about 10% are "great" samples so that's why you might get a "couple of nice ones".. and with those couple of nice ones you can make new bassdrums by layering them with another kick to give them another sound but still maintaining the punch cause good kick is there too.
coolgleamA.gif
 
i like to layer several bassdrums together. this way you can take elements from several samples that you like to get what you want.

I still have yet to EQ and Compress them, but this will come later this year.
 
MRT1212 said:
i like to layer several bassdrums together. this way you can take elements from several samples that you like to get what you want.

I still have yet to EQ and Compress them, but this will come later this year.

I have tried that myself but it was not successful....how do you deal with the timing problem than can occur...? Let's say I use three different kick drum samples, and the peak (attack) hits at different times...it's barely noticeable but you can hear that something is wrong....? Are there any basic rules to follow regarding layering sounds togther ?


Vic20
 
The sample CD's are intended to be sold to beginner producers.
The ones that are really expensive are really for the famous cats.
LEt's say, it wouldn't hurt Paul Oakenfold if he buys a $300/400 sample pack because he's gonna make lots more than that in just releasing a CD, or spinning couple'a'tracks in a club.

I see that there's general concensus about the "quality" of kicks that are out there, and I would like to actually hear a good kick made by us on this forum.
Make a kick...compressed, EQ'd. sampled, filtered...whatever, a then stick it somewhere online.

It will help us compare each other's kicks and then give suggestions on what's missing and what's not.

if u don't think my idea's good, just ignore me ;)

peace
 
Vic20 said:


I have tried that myself but it was not successful....how do you deal with the timing problem than can occur...? Let's say I use three different kick drum samples, and the peak (attack) hits at different times...it's barely noticeable but you can hear that something is wrong....? Are there any basic rules to follow regarding layering sounds togther ?


Vic20

I agree with you here. You can get a lot of phasing going on, which destroys the punch of the kickdrum.

You could try messing with the sample start times to cut an attack off one kick for example and then use another sample on top of that which contains a lot of attack ( maybe a real kick )

Shorten the latters decay time and eq it so you get rid of any bottom end, this will provide the initial attack portion of the kick, then use a typical 909/analog kick with the first few milliseconds cut out to provide the punch.

It all seems a bit complicated though and I personally have never created a kick like this, that had more punch than using a single kick with compression and eq.

I think it's 'horses for courses' really, everybody has different methods and if one isnt giving you the sound you expected, time to try something new!
 
Vic20 said:


One guy I know has been collecting samples for a couple of years now, and he told me he has 250 sample CD's but only 1% is worth collecting....the rest is b*u*l*l*s*h*i*t...


that is the right percentage

start digging. please ignore the advice about layering percussion samples unless you know to tune the samples tightly. this trend is ****ing up hot jams (see 'missy elliot:im really hot')
 
get a korg er-1 drum machine. they're cheap on ebay. there are two good kick sounds that I use. there's a bunch of junk sounds in the machine but it was worth the couple of hundred bucks to have two good kick drums. I use them over and over. The clap sounds really good. There are only two high hat sounds but they are quality. the snare sounds are okay but I always layer another snare on top cuz they sound kinda thin to me.

since its a drum synth you can fool around with the decay and pitch. i've gotten some good bass out of this box that way.

Its much cheaper than an 808(if you can find one) and to me easier to work with than sample cd's or records.
 
Well,

Of course there's no perfect BD for everything... but since I got almost a 100 sample CDz and about 4 good BDz I found a way to use these 4 for almost every style I get to do. Now, I don't know if it's alright to put names of plugins in this forum so I'll just say that in order to get the fat sound of the BD, I use a Saturator (VST) and boost the very low frequncies. Then I use a side chain compressor and compress (Slow attack) the low range. That can give you a fat-punchy sound without overiding the bassline and the other low-range sounds.

Hope it can help
 
Ive tried layering Kicks, but usually this doesnt work all the time since they cancel eachother out most of the times,
although Ive tried EQ'ing the same kick
pasted on 4 tracks and EQ'ing them at different spectrums this sounds realy good by the way,
but this takes so long and I havnt even started compressing.

One day I'll find that right kick!!
 
Mr. Wizard said:
Well,

Now, I don't know if it's alright to put names of plugins in this forum so Hope it can help

Why shouldn't that be allright ?
Are there any forum rules that I have missed ?



Vic20
 
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