Do all these big producers actually "know" how to play?

itzdlo

itzdlo

ayodlo
And by play I mean were most of these popular producers (vybe, Johnny J., O, etc..) brough up learning to play Classical music and take lessons? Do you guys know how to play classical music and took lessons and stuff or do most producers just play by ear? Ive seen people making beats and it seems like they know hot to play. Is these just experience and a skill that comes after years on the keys and making beats? I was talking my friend Dale and he said that for us producers it's just a gift given to us to be able to play by ear and that after he took some lessons at UCLA it messed up his way of "thinking" and producing. I'm asking this because i dont know if I actually want to learn how to play the piano and stuff with lessons. Anyone know from experience?
 
here's my opinion,
it couldn't hurt you to take piano lessons and understand even a basic knowledge of music theory. That doesn't mean you can't become really great at playing by ear, its just good to know what your actually doing technically.
on the contrary...
I'm in college for game design, but there are music majors here too. Some of these music majors have allot of musical knowledge, but there compositions are just boring and dull lol I also have a cousin who is classically trained, a beast at the piano, performs in front of his school etc., but just can't compose because all he does is play other people's compositions
 
How good of a producer do you want to be? Most producers believe that they're productions are the best in the world and nobody can't teach them to do what they do. It's stupid really. When you stop learning you stop growing and that leaves opportunity for you music to get old really fast. Before you know it, the people that listen to your music the most will stop because all of your new stuff is old stuff.

The more you can learn the better you become. That's just how it works. Lessons might change your sound and style, but isn't that the point? Learn as much as you can when you can. It may be weird at first, but the skill and technique will only build on what you already know which make you better. I hope this helps.
 
Most producers think it's more than pressing buttons actually. It's at the point where you're speaking on dudes like Vybe and Johnny J overlooking guys like Timbaland, Kanye, and Just Blaze who aren't classically trained, but wayyyyy more successful.

If ya sh*t sucks, fix it. There's no reason to be trained to do certain styles. Depending on what you do, it's better to know how to dig for samples, make 808s that thump, create arp and synth patches, point at people and tell them what to play, study Jazz(nothing in common with classical and not easily adaptive from "piano lessons" unless you're taught by a jazz pianist), learn to play a live instrument.

People wanna feel like this sh*t is rocket science. 15 year old kids are making album placements and you worried about what you don't know.
 
at deranged^ im just tryna get a head start to see what I SHOULD know. Is there something wrong with that? I was told I should expand on not only one area of production, I wanna learn how to do everything. If I thought it was just pressing buttons then I wouldnt have asked the question. Just tryna get some insight, I mean thats what the forums for after all right?....... but okay. Thanks for the opinions everyone!
 
sorry I've never had the stomach to take or play classically, that's just always been boring to me. I studied jazz (w/ jazz pianists) where playing "sloppy" can be stylistic.


I'd rather you put that time towards SYNTHESIS PROGRAMMING. I.E - knowing how to make your own leads/pads/excedra with oscillators and working arpeggiators and breaking down ALL the synths you find in most electronic music (new age hip hop included) and making those sounds upon call.

being classically trained can help you with hip-hop, but you're going to have to LEARN how to ADAPT that all that energy to it. keep in mind you are talking about something rooted in the 1300's and WAY before that. the concepts from then will exist in different mediums in 2010 - so yeah.


In the end do what you think will MAKE YOUR MUSIC the best. for me it was abandoning hip-hop and rapping to just doing everything music -- it's different for everybody.
 
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Learning how to program synths and arp patches will help, but it won't do you any good if you don't know how to make those sounds you created flow. Some sounds just "go" together naturally, they sound and feel right, same with knowing how chords and melodies are related, and how they flow. Making music should be fun, not stressful or too deep, make it 50% feel and 50% knowledge/theory. All in all, learn how to play piano if you can. If you weren't blessed to be able to play by ear, then piano lessons will take you far.
 
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Y'all are bookworms, so you try to compensate everything with book sense.

Do you need to understand math to make money? Absolutely, but do you need to take college courses in Calculous? Absolutely not. That's a different feild.

Do you need to know the rules to a sport to play well? Absolutely. Do you need to know how the write a playbook and come up with formations? Absolutely not. That's a different feild.

Y'all keep throwing around music theory without knowing the meaning of it. My 2 year old daughter knows "music theory". And to properly program arps you need to understand chords, that don't mean you gotta know every finger formation and transition in the book.

In the end, two types of people lean hard on "music theory". Those who can't play more than 3 key melodies so their music sucks, and dudes who can play Chopin's Nocturne but still can't make a hot beat if their life depended on it. Book smarts over talent is compensation for inferiority.

Stevie wonder knew music theory, now you gonna tell me he learned it from a book? Ray Charles? Timbaland? Dr. Dre? lol. Exactly. You can't learn talent from a book.

If anything you should be figuring out what sound you want and listening to music that will influence it.
 
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Wow Deranged speaking the truth like no one else.


deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
People wanna feel like this sh*t is rocket science. 15 year old kids are making album placements and you worried about what you don't know.
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Damn you hurt the dudes who never processed a vagina, sitting at home all day studying books.
 
Can the Big Boy producers really play

Here is the deal from my perspective. I'm only guessing here but I would bet a lot of hip hop beatmakers (not producers) can't play well enough to make a full song quickly. Musicians can play. And if they can they are limited in what scales they can use, etc. I have been making mostly original beats for over 4 years and although people for the most part like my beats, I am no where near satisfied or think I'm good enough to play with the big boys.

I don't want to guess anymore and I want to be able to play whatever is in my head. My main goal has always been to become a full-fledged keyboardist who play just about anything. I was always fully aware of the history of hip hop and knew that sampling early 70's records was the place to start. I hear BIG sounds in my head. Problem with sampling sometimes is that depending on the song you can only get so BIG and that frustrates me.

And I don't want to spend hours to find things and piece it all together. When I do sample nowadays I try to keep it simple and I don't even worry about clearing the sample right away because I put that responsiblity on the artist and the record would have to get real big before any type of legal action would come my way. But back to my point, I hear BIG sounds in my head and for me to get what I want I will need a much better understanding of music theory. Plucking around until I hear something I like not knowing what key or scale I'm in doesn't cut it for me anymore.

Sure a 3 key melody will work, and if you add some bass and stay in key with a couple other instruments, sure you will come up with something decent. I do that all the time. There comes a point when plucking around leads to unfinished beats becasue I don't know where to go next especially if I'm doing everything on the fly. We get stuck and tend to stick with what we already and we dont' even realize it sometimes. Even if you know how to play all of your major scales and their relative minor scales, you still need to know how to take full advantage of that ability. That is exactly what I'm learning to do.

I am taking a 6 month crash course to not only become a real keyboard player but a musician. I'm about a month into it and it's working. As I started the course I realized that I developed A LOT of bad habits over the last 4 plus years. Incorrect finger position for certain scales, not enough knowledge of intervals, not knowing the number system, etc... So to make this comment shorter than I really would like it to be.

Do whatever you got to do to get where you want to be. I don't think I can mention the course I'm taking on the site so I won't cuz I don't want to get in trouble but if your interested shoot me an email or something. I will say this.... You gotta put in the work to get the results. That goes with anything in music and in life. Six months from now I hope to be playing well enough to not only make whatever beat I want, but I also want to be able to play keyboard in a band if I would ever get that opportunity.


Peace.
 
Not good when you hear big sounds in your head... you should seek the doctor. I'm worried about your safety.
 
Move Music said:
Here is the deal from my perspective. I'm only guessing here but I would bet a lot of hip hop beatmakers (not producers) can't play well enough to make a full song quickly. Musicians can play. And if they can they are limited in what scales they can use, etc. I have been making mostly original beats for over 4 years and although people for the most part like my beats, I am no where near satisfied or think I'm good enough to play with the big boys.

I don't want to guess anymore and I want to be able to play whatever is in my head. My main goal has always been to become a full-fledged keyboardist who play just about anything. I was always fully aware of the history of hip hop and knew that sampling early 70's records was the place to start. I hear BIG sounds in my head. Problem with sampling sometimes is that depending on the song you can only get so BIG and that frustrates me.

And I don't want to spend hours to find things and piece it all together. When I do sample nowadays I try to keep it simple and I don't even worry about clearing the sample right away because I put that responsiblity on the artist and the record would have to get real big before any type of legal action would come my way. But back to my point, I hear BIG sounds in my head and for me to get what I want I will need a much better understanding of music theory. Plucking around until I hear something I like not knowing what key or scale I'm in doesn't cut it for me anymore.

Sure a 3 key melody will work, and if you add some bass and stay in key with a couple other instruments, sure you will come up with something decent. I do that all the time. There comes a point when plucking around leads to unfinished beats becasue I don't know where to go next especially if I'm doing everything on the fly. We get stuck and tend to stick with what we already and we dont' even realize it sometimes. Even if you know how to play all of your major scales and their relative minor scales, you still need to know how to take full advantage of that ability. That is exactly what I'm learning to do.

I am taking a 6 month crash course to not only become a real keyboard player but a musician. I'm about a month into it and it's working. As I started the course I realized that I developed A LOT of bad habits over the last 4 plus years. Incorrect finger position for certain scales, not enough knowledge of intervals, not knowing the number system, etc... So to make this comment shorter than I really would like it to be.

Do whatever you got to do to get where you want to be. I don't think I can mention the course I'm taking on the site so I won't cuz I don't want to get in trouble but if your interested shoot me an email or something. I will say this.... You gotta put in the work to get the results. That goes with anything in music and in life. Six months from now I hope to be playing well enough to not only make whatever beat I want, but I also want to be able to play keyboard in a band if I would ever get that opportunity.


Peace.
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This is an example of what I'm saying. No offense, but if you hear a sound in your head and can't play it, and pick up a book rather than figuring out why, you're compensating for lack of talent. You're no different than guys who can't make their "drums knock" that throw a compressor on the kick because they've been told it will fix it. It's harsh reality. It's like kids who can't shoot hoops practicing their formation rather than throwing the ball at the hoop till they figure out how to make it go in.

"studdersteps", "crossovers", "layups" and "dunks" don't come with "formation training". You just learn to palm a ball to shoot. "Formation" will get the ball smacked out your hand in the end without natural talent to smother that formation in.

I think people underestimate their minds and rely on others "rules" too much. But, I've been told I play by ear so I have an unfair advantage. I don't buy it, I used to suck until I figured out how to make sounds I wanted on my own. Now I'm teaching myself guitar. I guess i drive by hand, because I never took a driving course, but been driving since 14. Lol.

I hate to tell you guys this, but you got it or you don't. It's just pressing buttons whether you admit it or not is based on how hard pressing the buttons is for you. :cheers:
 
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I wouldn't say its a lack of talent to not understand how to get something out your head (I'm talking about musical ideas lol not voices). If you need that extra help from a book, why not read up. Everybody learns differently, so why knock the way somebody goes about learning.

A good example of this, is in some behind the scenes footage of Kanye and his late registration album. He brought in Jon Brion to elevate his sound basically. Because he wanted to take his music somewhere he couldn't do on his own. Nothing wrong with that, in the end Kanye is still talented as hell.
 
Stevie Wonder didn't come out his mother's womb fully clothed only to go to a piano and magically know and hear where everything was either.

like everybody whom is talented -- it had to be molded and shaped. (judging off what you've given to work with from jumpstreet, it can take longer for some than others.)
 
knowing how to play any instrament puts u ahead of the person who doesnt when it comes to producing music
 
Jramos said:
I wouldn't say its a lack of talent to not understand how to get something out your head (I'm talking about musical ideas lol not voices). If you need that extra help from a book, why not read up. Everybody learns differently, so why knock the way somebody goes about learning.

A good example of this, is in some behind the scenes footage of Kanye and his late registration album. He brought in Jon Brion to elevate his sound basically. Because he wanted to take his music somewhere he couldn't do on his own. Nothing wrong with that, in the end Kanye is still talented as hell.
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And you just hit it on the head with the Kanye comment. Make hot music by any means. Period.

Don't think a book will teach you to be Jon Brion, it won't even come close. Same time, you lying to yourself if you saying Kanye needs to learn everything Jon Brion knows, and you lying to yourself if you say Jon Brion knows more about music than Kanye.

You have the ability to be your own entity in music. You won't be the best at everything, you guys try to relate it to book sence. Book sense don't teach rhythm, arranging, capturing emotion in a song. it just teahes that when you hold blahblah and blah you're making a blah chord that can be followed up by a bleh chord or a bluh chord if you want to do a blogablah transition.

But it's that same bullsh*t mentality. Gotta feel like you doing something "more" than everyone else nomatter how much you know deep down inside you ain't doing sh*t. Kanye didn't pick up a book, he called a keyboardist. lol. End result, he instantly got his vision out of his head rather than reading a book hoping he could someday. :cheers:
 
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deRaNged 4 Phuk'dup said:
This is an example of what I'm saying. No offense, but if you hear a sound in your head and can't play it, and pick up a book rather than figuring out why, you're compensating for lack of talent. You're no different than guys who can't make their "drums knock" that throw a compressor on the kick because they've been told it will fix it. It's harsh reality. It's like kids who can't shoot hoops practicing their formation rather than throwing the ball at the hoop till they figure out how to make it go in.

"studdersteps", "crossovers", "layups" and "dunks" don't come with "formation training". You just learn to palm a ball to shoot. "Formation" will get the ball smacked out your hand in the end without natural talent to smother that formation in.

I think people underestimate their minds and rely on others "rules" too much. But, I've been told I play by ear so I have an unfair advantage. I don't buy it, I used to suck until I figured out how to make sounds I wanted on my own. Now I'm teaching myself guitar. I guess i drive by hand, because I never took a driving course, but been driving since 14. Lol.

I hate to tell you guys this, but you got it or you don't. It's just pressing buttons whether you admit it or not is based on how hard pressing the buttons is for you. :cheers:
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This is the most ignorant post I've read. Yeah right! You taught yourself everything that you know about making music, whatever. The truth is that someone showed you how the software and hardware worked (even if you read the manual) so that you could make you own stuff. So what....you play by ear....that has nothing to do with creating music that you’re not listening to. Your ears have little to do with composing a song (unless you can't tell if you’re hitting the wrong key for a specific scale, which lessons will help with that). Playing by ear has to do with sampling and performing (something mostly done by beat makers). That’s what you are, a beat maker. I can’t even say that your real producer because probably don’t know anything about musical intervals or improvisation. Talent doesn’t teach you stuff like that. You will need to take lessons, study, and practice so that you can get better at taking the music (not just sounds) out your head and putting is into a recording. A real musician seeks training from a Virtuoso so that they can become a Virtuoso themselves. Look it up on wikipedia.org so you can stop living in a flat world. All great athletes have a trainer or two or ten, stupid. Get a clue, the first step to becoming the best is to learn from the best.
 
CyMatix said:
This is the most ignorant post I've read. Yeah right! You taught yourself everything that you know about making music, whatever. The truth is that someone showed you how the software and hardware worked (even if you read the manual) so that you could make you own stuff. So what....you play by ear....that has nothing to do with creating music that you’re not listening to. Your ears have little to do with composing a song (unless you can't tell if you’re hitting the wrong key for a specific scale, which lessons will help with that). Playing by ear has to do with sampling and performing (something mostly done by beat makers).
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That's where I stopped reading.


So if ears have little to do with composing? Then eyes have little to do with painting?
 
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